UDL 1.0 Updates, Bugs, & Feedback

Brian C. said: keithcurtis said: JC said: Two suggestions for UDL- Minor UI issue: When in view-Lighting-as-token-mode (i.e. "ctrl-L" mode), switch the lighting seen by the GM to the new token if the GM selects a new token.  As it is, it is possible to select a new token and have the lighting remain based on the previous one unless you remember to <esc> and reenter ctrl-L mode. Strongly suggested functionality: Allow changing the darkness opacity displayed for players on a page when Daylight Mode is set  (ideally via a slider similar to the control used for the "GM opacity" setting)   The reason that reducing the opacity of areas blocked by line of vision is that it allows an atmosphere during daylight adventures that doesn't make it look like twilight or worse with faux shadows moving as characters walk though town.   Yes, we all know that the line of sight is blocked by the tavern wall, but we've been there and know there's some tables and chairs inside - ergo, it should be possible to show only slighting dimmed, much like the areas remembered from Explorer mode - just because they're not in vision, they shouldn't be ink-black - particularly on a page in Daylight Mode. 1. I like the current system, because it allows me to check LOS and move things around based on that perception. 2. That would be great. I agree with Keith on #1. Being able to adjust things while keeping the perspective of the first token is too important <chuckle> Okay, re #1 I can see some merit with that explanation - request withdrawn. A setting for "darkness opacity displayed for players is my real focus...  I'm all for shadows, but those "shadows" during daytime town play are actually just line of sight hints (and I don't want to turn off dynamic lighting completely.   Thanks! 

You could pre-reveal a town map to players before a game. Then instead of shadows, they could see the grayed out version of Explorer Mode.

keithcurtis said: You could pre-reveal a town map to players before a game. Then instead of shadows, they could see the grayed out version of Explorer Mode. Maybe. I've definitely pre-revealed things and then had some of the players complain they couldn't see them and then had to drag their tokens around a bit more during a game. It's not entirely clear which players can see what and what methods of pre-revealing actually work in what situations.  And if things like swapping tokens un-reveal things.  And it's a bit hard to test without using like 4 accounts.  It's probably something that could stand a bit more documentation once we're sure it's locked down and working the way it's supposed to.

keithcurtis said: You could pre-reveal a town map to players before a game. Then instead of shadows, they could see the grayed out version of Explorer Mode. I’ve tried that, but that does not eliminate the towering shadows of black that have nothing to do with lighting but are rather roll20’s forced rendition of “blocked vision”... It makes zero sense that a player can have a lightly shadow rendition of a room from explorer mode but not presently in view, but then must have forced ink-black “shadows” from some nearby walls put onto top of the entire scene in the names of blocked line-of-sight.

I guess one very simple answer would be to adjust the shading gradient of the dynamic blocked-line-of-sight areas to be approximately the same as as areas revealed in explorer mode during daylight mode.  This would reflect the concept of “well lit” area far better, maintains line of sight dynamics as characters move, and stop throwing the casting of shadows around in an otherwise Daylight scene...

JC said: I guess one very simple answer would be to adjust the shading gradient of the dynamic blocked-line-of-sight areas to be approximately the same as as areas revealed in explorer mode during daylight mode.  This would reflect the concept of “well lit” area far better, maintains line of sight dynamics as characters move, and stop throwing the casting of shadows around in an otherwise Daylight scene... Could you post a couple pictures as examples of the pain point and what you would like it to look like instead? When I read "towering shadows of black" from a "rendition of 'blocked vision'", I think of the black from line of sight being blocked and think, "Well of course a wall would block line of sight, and if someone wants to see on the other side, they need Explorer mode some other way of seeing on the other side (invisible token, etc.)." I think what I am thinking about and what you desire are two different things, but I am having trouble picturing it from the description.

Brian C. said: JC said: I guess one very simple answer would be to adjust the shading gradient of the dynamic blocked-line-of-sight areas to be approximately the same as as areas revealed in explorer mode during daylight mode.  This would reflect the concept of “well lit” area far better, maintains line of sight dynamics as characters move, and stop throwing the casting of shadows around in an otherwise Daylight scene... Could you post a couple pictures as examples of the pain point and what you would like it to look like instead? When I read "towering shadows of black" from a "rendition of 'blocked vision'", I think of the black from line of sight being blocked and think, "Well of course a wall would block line of sight, and if someone wants to see on the other side, they need Explorer mode some other way of seeing on the other side (invisible token, etc.)." I think what I am thinking about and what you desire are two different things, but I am having trouble picturing it from the description. The lighting system doesn't really do a good job of handling something like a familiar tavern in the evening, or a moonless night on the docks.  Places where light and line of sight are important, but there's nothing secret about the map. You can turn on daylight, which makes everything visible.  But then it's super bright everywhere.  You can't make a neat atmospheric glow from torches or out windows. You can turn that off and put candles and torches everywhere - but then you have to make sure they can reach all the nooks and crannies. It's better now - you can make a couple very large very dim lights to cover the whole area, and then smaller candles or torches to make nice looking point sources - but that still isn't great with more complicated room geometries because you start having to place multiple large dim lights, and those overlap giving you weird lines instead of a nice diffuse glow. You then have two options for revealing the map: - Leaving Explorer mode turned off looks bad and can be annoying.  There are stark black lines, and if the player walks into a room or goes around a corner, the rest of the place ceases to exist for them.  It's not a dungeon, there's nothing secret.  Their character has object permanence and a general sense of where they are and not being able to see is off-putting. -So you turn explorer mode on.  Which more or less gives you what you want - but it now has all the trappings of explorer mode.  You have to make sure to reveal everything to everyone, and it can be accidentally reset in various ways.  And it's not intuitive - the reason you're turning it on is the opposite of "exploration".  You're not trying to set up a situation where the players have to find things.  You're trying to make it so they already know what the whole map looks like. --- What would be really nice would be some sort of "fully visible map" toggle - which just shows the whole map in black and white to everyone all the time without having to track all the explorer mode stuff.  Then you could chose to light areas with torches or just use the daylight toggle and players would still see colors and tokens based on nearby light and line of sight - but the map would be there in black and white all the time. As opposed to the current "explorer mode" toggle - 3 options for what to do with stuff you currently can't see: A: show the map in B&W B: show the map in B&W if that area has been explored C: show blackness A brightness slider on the daylight toggle would also be great to handle twilight or moonlight or areas lit by a magical diffuse dim light or whatever.

Brian C. said: Could you post a couple pictures as examples of the pain point and what you would like it to look like instead? When I read "towering shadows of black" from a "rendition of 'blocked vision'", I think of the black from line of sight being blocked and think, "Well of course a wall would block line of sight, and if someone wants to see on the other side, they need Explorer mode some other way of seeing on the other side (invisible token, etc.)." I think what I am thinking about and what you desire are two different things, but I am having trouble picturing it from the description. Acknowledged.  Note that I am using explorer mode, and want to be able to have the map setup suitable for whether the players encounter it during the day or evening.  In the evening everything is fine, the lighting and the enforcement of line-of-sight makes perfect sense (since the assumption that anything not seen is dark is typically valid.) Daytime, the game feels completely wrong with UDL and Daytime mode enabled.  (Note, I am using explorer mode under UDL and definitely want to continue - that's how I protect the players from seeing rooms not yet entered.  Here's a nice example map, with several lanterns hanging about and the player holding a candle - Here's the player view of the map - (Note that the interior of the Tavern is known and lit, and it's daylight so the stable entrance is also lit.. (despite shadows seen by the player. As the player approaches, the "shadows" move, although in truth all of these are not actual shadows but rather line-of-sight blocks across a already entered, well-known lit room and an outside driveway in "Daylight" (This doesn't at all feel like a daytime encounter...) Finally, he enters the room - Okay, time to sit down, have some ale, and find some adventure... The inside of the tavern is fine, and explorer mode is working in that the storeroom on the right and the hallway to the stables is partially revealed - having been explored earlier. However, we know it's daylight out, and everything beyond the room is cast in "shadow"...  it truly doesn't look like a daytime encounter in the least.  Now I can certainly turn off UDL if the players come during the day, but then the unseen stables and rooms down the hall are no longer covered in explorable darkness.   I thought one option would be to be able to reduce the shading attributed to blocked line-of-sight, but am open to other suggestions (aside from "use legacy lighting", since UDL does work wonderful in providing atmosphere to nighttime and dungeon crawls.

So I just converted my whole campaign over to UDL and I'm having issues with light emitting tokens. See the attached screenshot. Basically, any light emitting token appears as a giant black void to players.  Anyone else experiencing this? I didn't see it in the list of issues. 

JC said: Brian C. said: Could you post a couple pictures as examples of the pain point and what you would like it to look like instead? When I read "towering shadows of black" from a "rendition of 'blocked vision'", I think of the black from line of sight being blocked and think, "Well of course a wall would block line of sight, and if someone wants to see on the other side, they need Explorer mode some other way of seeing on the other side (invisible token, etc.)." I think what I am thinking about and what you desire are two different things, but I am having trouble picturing it from the description. Acknowledged.  Note that I am using explorer mode, and want to be able to have the map setup suitable for whether the players encounter it during the day or evening.  In the evening everything is fine, the lighting and the enforcement of line-of-sight makes perfect sense (since the assumption that anything not seen is dark is typically valid.) Daytime, the game feels completely wrong with UDL and Daytime mode enabled.  (Note, I am using explorer mode under UDL and definitely want to continue - that's how I protect the players from seeing rooms not yet entered.  Here's a nice example map, with several lanterns hanging about and the player holding a candle - *snip* However, we know it's daylight out, and everything beyond the room is cast in "shadow"...  it truly doesn't look like a daytime encounter in the least.  Now I can certainly turn off UDL if the players come during the day, but then the unseen stables and rooms down the hall are no longer covered in explorable darkness.   I thought one option would be to be able to reduce the shading attributed to blocked line-of-sight, but am open to other suggestions (aside from "use legacy lighting", since UDL does work wonderful in providing atmosphere to nighttime and dungeon crawls. Thanks for the example, and I now understand what you were getting at. I disagree with your end goal, though. The Dynamic Lighting walls are doing their job by blocking line of sight, and Explorer Mode is showing what the player saw the last time they explored that area. There are a few ways to get your players' views to look similar to the first picture in your example. Vision through invisible tokens. Probably the simplest way would be to provide your players with extra vision through invisible tokens. You can create a transparent PNG and set it as the default token for a character controlled by all players but not in their journals. When you have an area you want players to always be able to see, you can drag the special character onto the map layer. This will provide vision but not allow the players to accidentally move the token. Remove DL walls.  You can also remove the DL walls if you don't actually want line of sight to be blocked. Then your players will be able to see what is on the other side of the tavern wall. If you need to switch to nighttime or need to hide what is on the other side of the wall from time to time, you can send the DL walls to the GM layer when they are not needed and move them back to the DL layer (requires advanced hotkeys to be activated) when you want to block vision again.

Brian C. said: Vision through invisible tokens. Probably the simplest way would be to provide your players with extra vision through invisible tokens. You can create a transparent PNG and set it as the default token for a character controlled by all players but not in their journals. When you have an area you want players to always be able to see, you can drag the special character onto the map layer. This will provide vision but not allow the players to accidentally move the token. Here's a fuller explanation:  Light Crumbs

"Light Crumbs" appear to work (although are definitely a misnomer since the area is theoretically well-lit from Daylight - they're really "vision crumbs"...) It takes about 4 or 5 around the entire building judiciously placed to kill the line-of-sight shadows...  It's workable, although I'd really like to be able to add/drop as a group (or at least turn on their vision property in that manner).  Also, it requires a bit more work to test out, since ctrl-L only shows a single token rather than the union of all - i.e. lots of jumping to "Reenter as player" to see what it will look like. Expect quite a few folks asking for a better solution if legacy lighting goes away - explorable darkness means UDL and UDL means line-of-sight shadows.

JC said: "Light Crumbs" appear to work (although are definitely a misnomer since the area is theoretically well-lit from Daylight - they're really "vision crumbs"...) True, but it's an old name that has hung around. Probably reinforced by the fact that in LDL light and vision are often the same thing. Expect quite a few folks asking for a better solution if legacy lighting goes away - explorable darkness means UDL and UDL means line-of-sight shadows. Curious: How would you create the effect you are looking for under LDL? Advanced Fog of War is extremely clunky compared to Explorable Darkness, and LOS works pretty much the same.

JC said: Expect quite a few folks asking for a better solution if legacy lighting goes away - explorable darkness means UDL and UDL means line-of-sight shadows. I am unsure about how you made this work in legacy lighting as well. The equivalent of explorable darkness was really bad in LDL in my experience and performed horribly so I never used it. I do see the point though, that the grayed out explored darkness areas are very dark. If there was a setting to reduce the darkness for players while still making it clear their line of sight is blocked (so not expecting there to be nothing there) I think the UDL system would easily beat out the LDL system in this regard. 

Hello, Im having an issue with my Storm King thunders game, on my Eye Of The All Father map my players cannot see anything other than on token, the entire map is black, i have tried moving them out of the map and back in on the players tab and no luck, ive played around with dynamic lighting settings and fog of war but nothing is working the map is just black, any help?

Adam said: Hello, Im having an issue with my Storm King thunders game, on my Eye Of The All Father map my players cannot see anything other than on token, the entire map is black, i have tried moving them out of the map and back in on the players tab and no luck, ive played around with dynamic lighting settings and fog of war but nothing is working the map is just black, any help? My short checklist regarding debugging an all black player view under UDL (I've done all of these so far, and am fairly sure I'll find some more ways to a totally dark screen shortly) - The player needs to enter the game on the same map you are (i.e. double check the player ribbon is on the correct map) on the token/object layer Player has ability to control the token on the map (i.e. Token/Details/Controlled-By is set to player, or Represents-Character is set to a character entry in the journal _and_ that character entry has (under Edit tab) Can-be-edited-and-controlled-by set to the Player) The token controlled by the player has has Vision turned on under UDL properties Token under UDL properties has Darkvision, or has Emits Light with non-zero values, or there are other light sources on the map in immediate vicinity that both emit light and are on the token or map layer (i.e. not the GM layer)

Wil said: I am unsure about how you made this work in legacy lighting as well. The equivalent of explorable darkness was really bad in LDL in my experience and performed horribly so I never used it. I do see the point though, that the grayed out explored darkness areas are very dark. If there was a setting to reduce the darkness for players while still making it clear their line of sight is blocked (so not expecting there to be nothing there) I think the UDL system would easily beat out the LDL system in this regard.  Never tried to make it work under legacy lighting...  I've played DnD for decades, but just got (re)introduced to it via roll20 and have been a player for months – when I decided to try my hand on the GM side last month with some city-oriented adventure design, I saw the warning on the Page settings tab that "Legacy-lighting and advanced fog of war are going away soon" and so have been UDL since day one. Pretty much immediately realized the need for "a setting to reduce the darkness for players while still making it clear their line of sight is blocked (so not expecting there to be nothing there)" – as you so well put it above.

This is intended for JC, and others that might be interested.  What I'd suggest, rather than requesting changes to the VTT system, is a reframe of the issue. It's a mind blowing suggestion, I know, but try and think of this from a roleplaying perspective.  :) When I'm walking about my town, I don't have a live bird's eye view of my location and surrounds. I can't see around corners, and except for open doors and windows, I can't see into buildings. That's what the VTT represents.  I do know the general layout of my town, based on experience, so I do have a map in my mind's eye to guide my movement. Or alternatively, a new visitor might have an actual map that shows a layout. But neither of these things are live. That's what the VTT represents by explorer mode. I'd suggest giving your PCs a map of the town as a handout for reference, and then use the VTT for the live representation. I guess, IMO, we get accustomed to treating RPGs like video games rather than a virtual table top, and then take for granted the utility they offer beyond the mat & markers we all used to use.

Jeff R. said: This is intended for JC, and others that might be interested.  What I'd suggest, rather than requesting changes to the VTT system, is a reframe of the issue. It's a mind blowing suggestion, I know, but try and think of this from a roleplaying perspective.  :) When I'm walking about my town, I don't have a live bird's eye view of my location and surrounds. I can't see around corners, and except for open doors and windows, I can't see into buildings. That's what the VTT represents.  I do know the general layout of my town, based on experience, so I do have a map in my mind's eye to guide my movement. Or alternatively, a new visitor might have an actual map that shows a layout. But neither of these things are live. That's what the VTT represents by explorer mode. I'd suggest giving your PCs a map of the town as a handout for reference, and then use the VTT for the live representation. I guess, IMO, we get accustomed to treating RPGs like video games rather than a virtual table top, and then take for granted the utility they offer beyond the mat & markers we all used to use. Jeff -     You say "That's what the VTT represents by explorer mode."    That's the problem - I'm actually trying to use the VTT in explorer mode to provide the live representation, only I don't accept that line-of-sight enforcement must be mandatory.   Note that well-lit maps with dynamic (GM-executed) reveal is something that _many_ games today are doing - an open well-lit map for city daytime play, and using standard fog of war and manual reveal (see below) - the players know its daytime, and the GM just keeps up with manual reveal of explored sections.     Wouldn't it be great if one could have the same functionality only with reveal capabilities of explorer mode in updated dynamic lighting?  Alas, one can't - because UDL includes mandatory line of sight shadows that have nothing at all to do with actually rendering the lighting itself.   So it's standard fog of war and no UDL for me (and many others who won't want their daylight games to become dark.  It's great that you want a VTT that enforces line of sight, but please don't presume that's what everyone else wants, as you can probably find dozens if games on roll20 VTT each week that are using standard fog of war and manual reveal – and aren't going to turn on UDL so long as it insists on line-of-sight ink "shadows" in daytime mode.   I've been trying out both "vision crumbs" and dropping the DL walls, and may go with one as a workaround, but it is indeed a workaround for achieving something roll20 could trivially achieve with the ability to change the line-of-sight gradient or simply turn off line-of-sight enforcement.

Not sure if this was mentioned... Switching to UDL has caused significant lag scrolling around the map that LDL does not have. I've noticed that this lag goes away if I am viewing the map through a token via cmd+L.  Is this issue being looked into? 

This is a good & useful checklist: Thanks for posting that JC. Copying it for reference as everyone's trying to get used to UDL settings & methods & workarounds & debugging & best practices. JC said: My short checklist regarding debugging an all black player view under UDL (I've done all of these so far, and am fairly sure I'll find some more ways to a totally dark screen shortly) - The player needs to enter the game on the same map you are (i.e. double check the player ribbon is on the correct map) on the token/object layer Player has ability to control the token on the map (i.e. Token/Details/Controlled-By is set to player, or Represents-Character is set to a character entry in the journal _and_ that character entry has (under Edit tab) Can-be-edited-and-controlled-by set to the Player) The token controlled by the player has has Vision turned on under UDL properties Token under UDL properties has Darkvision, or has Emits Light with non-zero values, or there are other light sources on the map in immediate vicinity that both emit light and are on the token or map layer (i.e. not the GM layer)

is LDL still sunsetting on May 18th? Because if that's the case i am gonna change my subscription so that this is the last month i pay for pro before i forget

Hi JC, To each their own. It seems to me that you missed or ignored the point of what I was saying. I also do not presume what everyone (or anyone) wants or is doing with their games; I was pointing out the purpose of the existing tools under UDL and how they could be considered from a role-playing sense. Explorer Mode is not meant to provide a live representation, rather the opposite as others have stated. If live is your expectation, therein lines the problem. Perhaps the issue is viewing a LoS simulation (with UDL and light blocking walls) and the memory of a known location (explorer mode) on the same screen simultaneously?  Perhaps one thing to try with UDL (and perhaps you are doing this) would be to do drop the DL walls and use the manual reveals to conceal building interiors like you've stated. Instead of using Daylight Mode (during a daytime setting), give your PC tokens a reasonable Nightvision distance to represent the extent to which they can see with any level of detail. 

Jeff R. said: .. Perhaps one thing to try with UDL (and perhaps you are doing this) would be to do drop the DL walls and use the manual reveals to conceal building interiors like you've stated. Instead of using Daylight Mode (during a daytime setting), give your PC tokens a reasonable Nightvision distance to represent the extent to which they can see with any level of detail. Yes, as noted there are various workarounds for the insistence of Updated Dynamic Lighting to also do line-of-sight simulation – of course, those workarounds would have to carried out and then reversed with each transition between day and night - such fun for running a city adventure.  It is obviously would be far easier to allow setting of the gradient or turning off the line-of-sight blocking entirely as several on this forum have already echoed.   Being to able to transition from manual fog of war/reveal to explorer-mode automation I suspect would be a reason for some to actually like going to UDL, but hey, it's already so popular so perhaps why bother?

Turning off vision for a token that has nightvision configured no longer seems to actually disable the nightvision (though it does still disable the ability to toggle it). Is this what was meant by " The UDL settings in the page and token menus now retain their state when a parent setting has been toggled off." in the release notes?  Cause  it's dumb.

Not sure if this is a bug or me missing a switch or something.  I have a map and room with no light source. I have three tokens inside that have darkvision. 60' Dimming effect of 0'. tinted black. So from the player's perspective the room will be dark but visible. However, From my GM POV, the room is black. I can't see anything in the room.  Please advise. BTW: April 6 update - The Total Light is still wrong. 10' Bright Light plus 10' Low Light is only giving me 10' of visible area on the map. Not 20'. 

Kevin C. said: Not sure if this is a bug or me missing a switch or something.  I have a map and room with no light source. I have three tokens inside that have darkvision. 60' Dimming effect of 0'. tinted black. So from the player's perspective the room will be dark but visible. However, From my GM POV, the room is black. I can't see anything in the room.  Please advise. BTW: April 6 update - The Total Light is still wrong. 10' Bright Light plus 10' Low Light is only giving me 10' of visible area on the map. Not 20'.  I suspect this is an issue with the nightvision overlapping.  Do you get something equally broken but less black if you switch the tint to some other color?

Kevin C. said: Not sure if this is a bug or me missing a switch or something.  I have a map and room with no light source. I have three tokens inside that have darkvision. 60' Dimming effect of 0'. tinted black. So from the player's perspective the room will be dark but visible. However, From my GM POV, the room is black. I can't see anything in the room.  Please advise. BTW: April 6 update - The Total Light is still wrong. 10' Bright Light plus 10' Low Light is only giving me 10' of visible area on the map. Not 20'.  This is probably a manifestation of a different bug. Are you getting 10 units of bright, and no low? If so, try moving the light source, just a touch.

Sean G. said: Kevin C. said: Not sure if this is a bug or me missing a switch or something.  I have a map and room with no light source. I have three tokens inside that have darkvision. 60' Dimming effect of 0'. tinted black. So from the player's perspective the room will be dark but visible. However, From my GM POV, the room is black. I can't see anything in the room.  Please advise. BTW: April 6 update - The Total Light is still wrong. 10' Bright Light plus 10' Low Light is only giving me 10' of visible area on the map. Not 20'.  I suspect this is an issue with the nightvision overlapping.  Do you get something equally broken but less black if you switch the tint to some other color? Yes. If I remove tinting, I am able to see. However, viewing from the token's perspective (cmd+L), the map is clear as day. Is there a way of dimming their vision without tint or a way of preventing the overlap making the screen darker?

Edward R. said: Kevin C. said: Not sure if this is a bug or me missing a switch or something.  I have a map and room with no light source. I have three tokens inside that have darkvision. 60' Dimming effect of 0'. tinted black. So from the player's perspective the room will be dark but visible. However, From my GM POV, the room is black. I can't see anything in the room.  Please advise. BTW: April 6 update - The Total Light is still wrong. 10' Bright Light plus 10' Low Light is only giving me 10' of visible area on the map. Not 20'.  This is probably a manifestation of a different bug. Are you getting 10 units of bright, and no low? If so, try moving the light source, just a touch. Yes. it appears they are overlapping. If Bright Light is 10 units and Low Light is 20 units. I get 10 units  bright and an additional 10 units of Low Light for a total view of 20 units, yet the Total Light calculates 30 units. 

Kevin C. said: Sean G. said: ... Yes. If I remove tinting, I am able to see. However, viewing from the token's perspective (cmd+L), the map is clear as day. Is there a way of dimming their vision without tint or a way of preventing the overlap making the screen darker? I use a dark blue instead of black.  It dims the vision a bit but still leaves me able to at least see a little bit.  Overlapping dark vision is a bug that's on their list, so presumably it'll get sorted out eventually.

Kevin C. said: Yes. it appears they are overlapping. If Bright Light is 10 units and Low Light is 20 units. I get 10 units  bright and an additional 10 units of Low Light for a total view of 20 units, yet the Total Light calculates 30 units.  I am seeing this as well. If a token projects dim light, that value is constraining the overall amount of light projected by the token. 20 feet bright and 20 feet dim (5e torch) will show 20 feet of bright light. 20 feet bright and 40 feet dim will show 20 feet of bright light and 20 feet of dim (40 feet overall), and the dim light is cut off partway through its fade to black. 20 feet bright and 10 feet dim will show 10 feet of bright light. 20 feet bright and 0 feet dim will just illuminate the token. 20 feet bright and dim light turned off will correctly show 20 feet of bright light. Bright light turned off and 20 feet of dim light will correctly show 20 feet of dim light.

Hey all, before we head into the weekend I just wanted to do a quick update on some of the recent questions (I say "some" because I'm hoping I caught them all). Thom d : Agreeing with the other folx chiming in, it sounds like that's the Night Vision blending issue -- which is on the docket! Adam (and Kevin C, for one of your questions): did you get a chance to go through JC's checklist? It sounds like the player may not have control over the token, the token doesn't have vision, and/or there's no light in the area. Kevin C. : the lag being present and then going away when using cmd+L sounds... not great. Would you mind submitting a report with a game link and console log via the Help Center? We'll need to take a closer look at the game to check it out. Sean G. : thank you! We have a ticket in to get the Night Vision not turning off sorted. And thank you for the specifics on the total light values not working! I've made sure that's gotten back to the team so it can be added to the correct ticket. Happy rolling! I have a game tomorrow so I'm sure that I'll take all the bad rolls so y'all get the good ones.

Brian C. said: <snip> I am seeing this as well. If a token projects dim light, that value is constraining the overall amount of light projected by the token. 20 feet bright and 20 feet dim (5e torch) will show 20 feet of bright light. 20 feet bright and 40 feet dim will show 20 feet of bright light and 20 feet of dim (40 feet overall), and the dim light is cut off partway through its fade to black. 20 feet bright and 10 feet dim will show 10 feet of bright light. 20 feet bright and 0 feet dim will just illuminate the token. 20 feet bright and dim light turned off will correctly show 20 feet of bright light. Bright light turned off and 20 feet of dim light will correctly show 20 feet of dim light. Seeing the same obviously. The update on the 6th only had 3 bullet points - and two of them seem questionably implemented.  Has anyone seen an increase in offensive auto-generated character names in the last three days?

Sean G. said: Has anyone seen an increase in offensive auto-generated character names in the last three days? My guess is that no one (or few people?) reported potentially off color randomized names in the past.  Get more people, get more people that may think something is a problem instead of a humorous one off name of the random generator.  I think I have only seen one in my time here, and I just took a screenshot and sent it to a friend that would appreciate it before changing the name to one I would actually use.

Bunny said: Thom d : Agreeing with the other folx chiming in, it sounds like that's the Night Vision blending issue -- which is on the docket! Yes, just verified it. Turned off night vision on the token and the light source works as expected. Good thing I backed up the game before converting. 

Bunny said: Hey all, before we head into the weekend I just wanted to do a quick update on some of the recent questions (I say "some" because I'm hoping I caught them all). Thom d : Agreeing with the other folx chiming in, it sounds like that's the Night Vision blending issue -- which is on the docket! Adam (and Kevin C, for one of your questions): did you get a chance to go through JC's checklist? It sounds like the player may not have control over the token, the token doesn't have vision, and/or there's no light in the area. Kevin C. : the lag being present and then going away when using cmd+L sounds... not great. Would you mind submitting a report with a game link and console log via the Help Center? We'll need to take a closer look at the game to check it out. Sean G. : thank you! We have a ticket in to get the Night Vision not turning off sorted. And thank you for the specifics on the total light values not working! I've made sure that's gotten back to the team so it can be added to the correct ticket. Happy rolling! I have a game tomorrow so I'm sure that I'll take all the bad rolls so y'all get the good ones. Hi Bunny, Thanks. I've submitted a report using your link. I'm unfamiliar with the console log or how to send, so was unable to add that to the report.  I am uncertain if I've seen JC's checklist. And I'm uncertain which question you are answering for Adam. I've been testing via CMD+L on vision and have been checking various tokens for "has vision" and not just to see how that might affect things. Checking with various light sources as well and checking with various quantities of tokens in a single room and multiple rooms. Thanks again for everyone's help. Currently, using work-around with color as suggested by Sean for Low-light tint. Still get's pretty dark for the GM to see. glad it's on the to-do list.

I am seeing this as well. If a token projects dim light, that value is constraining the overall amount of light projected by the token. 20 feet bright and 20 feet dim (5e torch) will show 20 feet of bright light. Experiencing the same bug here (Firefox.)

Kevin C. said: I am uncertain if I've seen JC's checklist. Nothing earth-shattering here, just what I've picked up from this forum and experimentation - My short checklist regarding debugging an all black player view under UDL (I've done all of these so far, and am fairly sure I'll find some more ways to a totally dark screen shortly) - The player needs to enter the game on the same map you are (i.e. double check the player ribbon is on the correct map) on the token/object layer Player has ability to control the token on the map (i.e. Token/Details/Controlled-By is set to player, or Represents-Character is set to a character entry in the journal _and_ that character entry has (under Edit tab) Can-be-edited-and-controlled-by set to the Player) The token controlled by the player has has Vision turned on under UDL properties Token under UDL properties has Darkvision, or has Emits Light with non-zero values, or there are other light sources on the map in immediate vicinity that both emit light and are on the token or map layer (i.e. not the GM layer)

◄ Scott ► and JC , since the Gauntlets of Ogre Power issue isn't related to UDL I've deleted those posts. Please start another thread or to send in the issue via the Help Center (<-- that'll probably be the fastest way to get it to that particular team)!

Wil said: Bob DM S. said: I saw another post this back in January, I am seeing the exact same issue.  I'm having a problem with the dynamic lighting. In multiple games (all modules), my players will move their tokens and simply go blind. Like the dynamic lighting just turns off and they can't see anything. The only fix I've found is the turn off the dynamic lighting (revealing the whole map) and turn it back on, and even then they usually go blind the next time they move their token. So this is still an issue as of right now. I am working with a friend and trying to see what is happening. Using zoom to look at his computer and mine at the same time. Everything looks right on my computer, his is not working, the tokens lost all sight. If I turn off UDL save it, then turn it on everything comes back. Move a token and it is okay, then a minute later move a token and everyone goes blind again.  Hey Bob, I had this same issue and thought in the past it may be tied to some tokens still having LDL values though that seemed to not be the case. Earlier in this thread this same issue also came up and it seemed tied to actually changing from one map to the other. As soon as the player view is changed and the new one has UDL on it has a chance to create this behaviour. With that I mean: Vision breaking entirely on that screen. You can indeed turn UDL off and on again for a short fix but then it does come back. The workaround that came up in this thread, and has helped me so far, is a reload of the browser tab. That seemed to have fixed it on every game I have run since finding out about this issue. Do note that this issue seems to be client side so every player and the DM will need to do this seperately when it comes up after changing a map. It is far but ideal, but it can maybe help you moving forward until the issue is fixed. Still agree though, it is quite jarring and annoying when it happens and just because there is a workaround that does not mean it is lower prio because of it. Your post just shows that more and more people run into it every week and this needs to be fixed as I believe this may be the main bug causing people to say UDL just doesn't work. All other things like Light multipliers and such are details compared to Lighting just breaking mid game because you had to change maps for the players. Changing from map to map is key functionality for Roll20 and one reason why I once got interested in this tool to begin with. It gives DM's a lot of control and that key functionality breaking UDL mid session is a big problem.  If I understand you correctly, this happens when you move from an LDL map to a UDL map. So it all the maps are UDL maps, it should not be an issue.  If having this issue, ask all players to reload their browsers.  For the record, this happened again last night, 4/9/2021. This time it happened to me on my computer. I would lose all dynamic lighting. I have my player tokens setup with a color for Night Vision. This way I can tell when they see with light and what they see because of Night Vision. I see the color on my screen for what they see. All of a sudden, all the Night Vision color goes away and I know it is having a problem.  THIS IS A DEAL BREAKER FOR THE MOVE TO UDL. I WANT TO HEAR AN OFFICIAL ANSWER AS TO HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS IN GAME.  What I did last night was turn off UDL on the map, then turn it back on. For a minute there, all the players can see the entire map, then it returns to normal. This is not good.  Bob

What about the bug where UDL just turns off and stops working until you go to the page setting and turn it off and then turn it back on. In the time it takes to do this, the entire page is reveled to all the players and then hidden again. This was reported back at least as for back as January.  THIS IS A SHOW STOPPER< IT MAKE GAME PLAY WITH UDL ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. Bob  Corey J. said: Happy Friday Folx!  I’m here to give a rundown of the current status and where everything is in our efforts to keep you in the know on UDL. We’ll update the “What Needs Worked On” section in the first post with this list too. COMPLETED   First off in the things we have completed, Dim Light falloff was fixed and in the same update added the ability to customize the intensity of the dim light effect and the break line that was seen at the edge of the borders between Dim and Bright light. DIMMING: COMPLETED LIGHTING BREAK LINE: FIXED IN QA  Moving onto things that are actively in QA, people have mentioned that the UDL settings had some inconsistencies with saving value states (for example if I turn on Night Vision but then turn on Vision, I wanted the Night Vision value to be remembered for when Vision was turned on again). While we were in there we scooped up the bug where the total light value calculation in relation to Dim Light was incorrect. SETTINGS: IN QA TOTAL LIGHT VALUE ERROR: IN QA NIGHT VISION/DIM LIGHT: IN QA   IN PROGRESS  The next couple targets we have our sights set on are the multifaceted approach to addressing lag as it relates to UDL. We’re also working on the root cause that leads up to causing a Ring/Bullseye effect on a token. Once we get movement on some of these we will be pulling in things up from the Queue. LAG: IN PROGRESS -- currently analyzing various problems and solutions RING/BULLSEYE EFFECT: IN PROGRESS   CONFIRMED AND QUEUED  On deck the list below many of the statuses have moved and shifted as it became unblocked with groundwork from previous updates. Here is the list of things we have the information on and have what we need to get the solution moving forward.  GRID: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED   VISIBILITY: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED PAGE FREEZING: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED NIGHT VISION: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED JAGGED LINES: QUEUED -- went from in progress to queued: groundwork was made on an antialiasing approach that needs more adjustments  to give us the quality we’re looking for TOKEN SNAP LIGHTING: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED CTRL+L TOKEN SWAPPING: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED TURNING OFF UDL AFFECTS OTHER PAGES: CONFIRMED SAME AS PAGE FREEZING -- CONFIRMED AND QUEUED NIGHT VISION TINT: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED CTRL+L REVERSING ON PAGE SWAP: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED DYNAMIC LIGHTING LAYER HIGHLIGHT: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED LIGHT MULTIPLIER: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED   INVESTIGATING   Here are the handful of items we are still investigating the root cause of and are working to find solutions to.  CTRL+L CRASH ON PAGE SWITCH: INVESTIGATING LDL TROUBLES: Some people have reported an increase of problems using LDL. If you’re experiencing this issue, please contact the help center or make a new post in the bug forum! This thread is going to stay focused on UDL. DARKNESS OPTIONS MISSING IN DAYLIGHT MODE: INVESTIGATING REVEAL TOOL LEAVES PATCH OF DARKNESS: INVESTIGATING API INTEGRATIONS FOR UDL:  INVESTIGATING PAGE REVEAL: INVESTIGATING -- We put out a series of fixes that we believe cleared up the scenarios and the root cause of this but we want to be certain so if you’re still having issues we want to hear from you!     New stuff! And finally here are some extra items that are available to try out now and which will be hitting live soon CIRCLES are right around the corner. Currently on Dev so we can poke at it a bit more to test it and still give you Pro users a chance to play with them if you’d like. A reminder for folks who are using them as barriers that restrict movement but not light this feature update will alter that interaction and we want to provide a better long term solution to this that you will adore.  Freehand drawing support is on its way and likely to hit Dev servers next week for those times when you need a wall to just be a series of doodles. 

Or the UDLWindows API.  Bob Kyle said: Valerie M. said: @Kyle, if this is important to you, as a pro member you can create "windows" that block movement but not light using Matt's Door Knocker script, available from the one-click menu. Thank you!

Bob DM S. said: What about the bug where UDL just turns off and stops working until you go to the page setting and turn it off and then turn it back on. In the time it takes to do this, the entire page is reveled to all the players and then hidden again. This was reported back at least as for back as January.  THIS IS A SHOW STOPPER< IT MAKE GAME PLAY WITH UDL ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. ..... Fairly sure that's what's meant by the " VISIBILITY: CONFIRMED AND QUEUED" bullet point. As a work around, don't switch maps if you don't have to (yes that's annoying/impossible). As far as I know it has nothing to do with going between LDL and UDL maps - just switching maps in general. It doesn't ever seem to happen if you load into the game on the map that you want to use. And if it does happen, d on't turn lighting off and back on. That causes the problems you mentioned and doesn't really fix the situation in my experience. You'll just go blind when you move tokens again. Spend the time to reload the webpage and things should stay working. Anecdotally, not having more than one person controlling any of the tokens may help as well. But I haven't really tested that out.

Be warned, fellow users who buy stuff from Roll20: UDL will be part of the main product patch for your product, if it's not already. Sure glad I read the notes and didn't hit update. Honestly, I can't even.

TheWebCoder said: Be warned, fellow users who buy stuff from Roll20: UDL will be part of the main product patch for your product, if it's not already. Sure glad I read the notes and didn't hit update. Honestly, I can't even. Wow. That is unbelievable. Roll20 forces UDL in its current state on DM through a "patch"? A patch is literally something that is supposed to fix a problem. Bug-ridden UDL will _cause_ problems. Can we get any explanation from roll20´s side for this unaccaptable move?

My apologies for the flustered nature of this post, but I'm just so incredibly frustrated with UDL. Here is my experience tonight. I keep a map page open that has the player tokens pre-assembled with all the bits and bobs I want, including their desired visibility settings. There is no legacy dynamic lighting information on these tokens; I've emptied out the fields entirely. I keep the page this way so I can rapidly copy/paste them to new maps without having to set them up every single time with their UDL settings. And every time I copy/paste them to the page I want them on after setting up UDL settings on the map, it breaks UDL. Every token has the explored darkness from where they were first pasted, but none of them can see anything else at all (see my last post in this thread for what their visibility looks like). It stays this way regardless of turning UDL on and off again, or bouncing the page on a reload. It's permanently broken on that map from then on, regardless of reloads, and I have to go back to using LDL and wasting ten minutes while I set that up. Tonight it went one further; it blacked out every player's visibility on a map I wasn't even editing, while I was doing things behind the scenes, until I shut off UDL on the map I was tinkering with and the players reloaded. I'm very frustrated. UDL has never, ever worked properly for me and the fact that I keep seeing insistent reports that it is incredibly disheartening. I don't want  to move to another platform; all my stuff is here! I hate moving virtually as much as I do in meatspace! What's the deal, then? What can I do to help you all troubleshoot?