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UDL 1.0 Updates, Bugs, & Feedback

1623073869

Edited 1623075525
Zach
Plus
@Brett You can still find the legacy lighting system at the bottom of Page Lighting Settings and Token Lighting Settings. I'm facing my own issues with the new system: Unless a token (on the Token Layer!) has both Vision AND is Editable by me, it turns faintly translucent as though it were on the GM Layer. See an example pictured below; the token on the left does not have vision, the one on the right does. Both are on the Token Layer. &nbsp; It is the same issue as described in this thread, and that is where I found the solution of giving them vision and editing control by me:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/9831817/character-token-opacity" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/9831817/character-token-opacity</a> This would be a fine (if not extremely tedious) solution, except that giving every token vision means that the party sees everywhere the monsters have been in Explorer Mode. Is this a known bug, and/or is there another solution I'm not finding? (Edit: For what its worth, I just realized that the non-vision token appears normal while in an area of bright light. Maybe a supposed feature of the updated lighting, to make tokens in the dark look different?) (Edit 2: Looks like turning on Night Vision for a token, then turning its vision off is a solution. Can't imagine that's intended.)
1623084098
Zach said: @Brett You can still find the legacy lighting system at the bottom of Page Lighting Settings and Token Lighting Settings. Yeah, I've found that setting, but it's set to "Off". Yet, the tokens can see, which indicates to me that my campaign was "stealth converted" to UDL... which we were told wouldn't happen. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But I do know that I've read of other people reporting problems when they were on UDL and then tried to convert back to LDL. My weekly game is tonight, so now I'm afraid to start experimenting around, for fear of messing things up even worse than they may already be. I guess we'll see what happens when everyone logs in this evening.
1623084250
Kenton
Roll20 Team
Brett- nothing was converted, the legacy settings were simply moved. Our&nbsp; Help Center documentation &nbsp;has been updated to reflect the change as well, hopefully that will help. None of your settings should have been lost, even with the need to confirm using LDL. As to your other question, the Convert link takes you to additional information about using the Convert Lighting tool .
1623089275
It would be super helpful if Roll20 adopted a policy of telling people that stuff like this is going to happen before it happens . This is part of a pattern of behavior that is badly inconveniencing your customers, and it's not like we have not told Roll20, repeatedly and unambiguously, that we dislike it and that it makes us angry and paranoid of your intentions. It's disruptive and unprofessional for you guys to push major changes like this without extensive prior notice, and this is totally avoidable on your part.
1623096112
Alex
Pro
Kenton said: Brett- nothing was converted, the legacy settings were simply moved. Our&nbsp; Help Center documentation &nbsp;has been updated to reflect the change as well, hopefully that will help. None of your settings should have been lost, even with the need to confirm using LDL. As to your other question, the Convert link takes you to additional information about using the Convert Lighting tool . Thanks for dropping in--we appreciate it! While nothing was, apparently, converted, there was &nbsp;a big change that hit some large number of us and I think that's what Brett is talking about. Do you have any idea what's going on with the mass LDL disabling event? Some large number of games saw LDL completely disabled, and while it can be enabled again if we know what's going on, none of this was communicated and has been really confusing. I know for my part, I've got 100+ template games that I may or may not need to revisit and reenable LDL on...
1623106614
So, on my live campaign, the particular map page that the party is on, the LDL toggle is set to "On". However, on all the character tokens on the map, the LDL toggle is set to "Off". Also, their Vision is set to "Off", and those characters who were carrying light sources now show nothing on those settings either. However, just looking at the PCs on the map, it appears that all of those settings are still active. CNTR+L still works, etc. My game starts in about 45 minutes, I'll just wait for everyone to log in and ask them what they can or cannot see. Hopefully, they won't say something like, "I can see the entire map." As long as that doesn't happen, I'll adjust as necessary.
The night vision colour is now extremely thick compared to what it was a week ago or so. I have converted my games to UDL a while ago, and the night vision tint was doing good, but now, it's like it's extremely thick and is completely blurring the image underneath it, as if it was'nt fading to transparent as it was before.... what's happening ? The only option i see is to turn of colours on the night vision, which is rather bad... Has there been any changes on the night vision tint effect ? I tried both nocturnal and attenuation, and the problem is on both parameters.... Can someone explain this to me ..?
1623205082

Edited 1623205115
Lionel V. said: The night vision colour is now extremely thick compared to what it was a week ago or so. I have converted my games to UDL a while ago, and the night vision tint was doing good, but now, it's like it's extremely thick and is completely blurring the image underneath it, as if it was'nt fading to transparent as it was before.... what's happening ? The only option i see is to turn of colours on the night vision, which is rather bad... Has there been any changes on the night vision tint effect ? I tried both nocturnal and attenuation, and the problem is on both parameters.... Can someone explain this to me ..? I can't say that I've seen what it was like before, but I was testing this out recently too.&nbsp; Using the nightvision with a tint made it incredibly difficult to see tokens (or even the map!) around the player! Without nightvision tint: With nightvision tint: I tried adding just a foot or two of dim light to the party member's tokens, but the map itself still didn't look right...&nbsp; I would really like to use this so that they can see when there is a light source up and coming up (like an open door, or a fire around the corner), but it was difficult for the players to adapt to.
1623249952
Laurent
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Brett said: So, on my live campaign, the particular map page that the party is on, the LDL toggle is set to "On". However, on all the character tokens on the map, the LDL toggle is set to "Off". Also, their Vision is set to "Off", and those characters who were carrying light sources now show nothing on those settings either. However, just looking at the PCs on the map, it appears that all of those settings are still active. CNTR+L still works, etc. My game starts in about 45 minutes, I'll just wait for everyone to log in and ask them what they can or cannot see. Hopefully, they won't say something like, "I can see the entire map." As long as that doesn't happen, I'll adjust as necessary. I observe the same thing on my games. Even default tokens newly created from characters have the LDL Vision set to "Off". Doesn't look good for my next session...
Glad I read this. Even though I've never enabled UDL, or even patched my game to support UDL, all of my tokens had LDL disabled. Is there a fix planned for this, or is it on us to go in and manually fix our games again?
1623268427
Titus
Plus
From the April 27th Blog Post: ”Further updates for Legacy Dynamic Lighting will cease on May 18. That means that we can’t guarantee stability or compatibility for games using Legacy Lighting beyond that date.” Sounds like folks still using LDL are on their own to fix their games…
1623273338
Alex
Pro
Titus said: From the April 27th Blog Post: ”Further updates for Legacy Dynamic Lighting will cease on May 18. That means that we can’t guarantee stability or compatibility for games using Legacy Lighting beyond that date.” Sounds like folks still using LDL are on their own to fix their games… Quite possibly. It'd be nice to know what's going on, though. "We're moving some settings around, and it's possible that LDL will be disabled on some number of games. As part of this, we're starting a multi-day query to migrate LDL settings to their new home, and you may need to reenable LDL in your games, especially if you play on Thursday or Friday of this week." would be a lot different from the radio silence we've got at the moment.
1623276301
Katie Mae
Roll20 Team
Hi everyone Apologies that the user interface changes to the legacy system came as a surprise to folks. We had announced them within our June 2nd release notes but we should have been more clear and brought that information to this thread ahead of time as well. It was not our intention to disable LDL token features in your games, this was a graphical error that was showing settings as off despite them being active! You should be able to flip the toggle and get back to playing.&nbsp; Regarding the UI changes overall, continuing to maintain two tabs was a point of confusion we wanted to remove. As LDL will receive no further updates ( as mentioned here ), we are prioritizing UDL and want to ensure it is as easy to use as possible . There will be a concentrated effort to reduce the learning curve of our Dynamic Lighting system in the coming weeks, and the UI change was a small piece of this shift In an effort to bring forward information ahead of time, here are some upcoming changes and updates to be aware of in the coming weeks: Colored lighting has moved into early development stages. More info to come soon, keep an eye on the dev server! The remaining “jagged edge” issues are being addressed. We are planning to share some internal metrics with all of you regarding Dynamic Lighting soon. We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings. Games already using the legacy system will still have access. We will be providing more details as we have them and will let you know prior to the change. We will be starting a new DL thread soon, and introducing a new method of public feature reporting for the Dynamic Lighting feature.&nbsp; For those of you looking to continue using LDL we have an outline with screenshots on how to do that on our Help Center .I'll be going through collecting additional info about the other reported issues in this thread, so keep an eye out for that in the coming days. Thanks again, gamers!
1623277030

Edited 1623277042
Thanks, Katie Mae! I noticed the recent update mentioned something about Light Sensitivity. Is that the same thing as the Light Multiplier under advanced settings, or is there a new setting being added? I was hoping it might be the latter as a means of supporting PF2E-style low-light vision, but I don't see any settings labeled Light Sensitivity.
1623283094
Katie Mae said: We had announced them within our June 2nd release notes but we should have been more clear and brought that information to this thread ahead of time as well. Just throwing it out there, but when it's such a huge interface change, you guys might actually want to consider sending people e-mail. It's pretty unpleasant to get blind-sided by this kind of change, and relying on us to see and read the specific thread on the specific forum that announced it was a poor choice. I know that Roll20 can send e-mail about things that it cares about, because on June 2, I received an e-mail message about the Roll20 Reserve offering. And on May 29, I received a message about a mobile dice roller, the availability of animated tokens in the Marketplace, and something about the May 2021 Roundtable. Many of those things were quite interesting and even exciting to hear about, don't get me wrong. But it would have been fantastic to have heard about something like, "Hey, we're turning off LDL for everybody who uses the service. Your settings aren't gone, but the interface moved them, and if you're still using LDL, you need to turn it back on again for every token you have set for it." That's not something you want to find out as a surprise when you log in on game night for a quick final check of a map you spent hours setting up.
1623284245

Edited 1623328345
Tom
Pro
"We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings." VERY concerning to hear about this :( Tom
1623288342
As it turns out, I was able to run my (LDL) Monday night game without any noticeable issue from my players; I just left the DL settings alone for the time being. Edward R. said: Just throwing it out there, but when it's such a huge interface change, you guys might actually want to consider sending people e-mail. It's pretty unpleasant to get blind-sided by this kind of change, and relying on us to see and read the specific thread on the specific forum that announced it was a poor choice. Not to pile on, but I agree with this. If it weren't for the fact that I check the forums occasionally, I would not have known about this interface update until I logged in Monday night to host my game. A change like this probably deserved more than a brief bullet comment that was buried among several others in the June 2nd update.
1623295609

Edited 1623389764
Lionel V. said: The night vision colour is now extremely thick compared to what it was a week ago or so. I have converted my games to UDL a while ago, and the night vision tint was doing good, but now, it's like it's extremely thick and is completely blurring the image underneath it, as if it was'nt fading to transparent as it was before.... what's happening ? The only option i see is to turn of colours on the night vision, which is rather bad... Has there been any changes on the night vision tint effect ? I tried both nocturnal and attenuation, and the problem is on both parameters.... Can someone explain this to me ..? Agreed.&nbsp; Tinted night vision became unreasonably dim and washed out at some point.&nbsp; I used to use a dark blue tint.&nbsp; When they did the fix for overlapping tints and disabled sharpen, I had to switch to a lighter blue because that was too dark suddenly.&nbsp; But that was fine.&nbsp; But then at some point it became the current state, which is basically useless regardless of the tint color chosen.&nbsp; My players would complain that they couldn't tell what they were looking at if I used it as it is now. If this is how it is going to be, I'll just stop using it.&nbsp; It's fine.&nbsp; Presumably someone likes it like this.&nbsp; But it would be nice if I didn't need to keep adjusting the vision on all my player tokens and updating their defaults and whatnot in both my games every week.&nbsp; I'd go turn it off now but it'll probably get randomly changed back to something more reasonable again in a few days. Katie Mae &nbsp;said: Hi everyone ... In an effort to bring forward information ahead of time, here are some upcoming changes and updates to be aware of in the coming weeks: Colored lighting has moved into early development stages. More info to come soon, keep an eye on the dev server! The remaining “jagged edge” issues are being addressed. We are planning to share some internal metrics with all of you regarding Dynamic Lighting soon. We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings. Games already using the legacy system will still have access. We will be providing more details as we have them and will let you know prior to the change. We will be starting a new DL thread soon, and introducing a new method of public feature reporting for the Dynamic Lighting feature.&nbsp; .... Thanks for the update Katie!&nbsp; Quick question - Did you ever determine what the intended behavior is regarding tokens without vision or GM control being dimmed/translucent for the GM?&nbsp; Is the current behavior buggy?
1623313594

Edited 1623313671
Wint
Plus
Katie Mae said: Apologies that the user interface changes to the legacy system came as a surprise to folks. We had announced them within our June 2nd release notes but This update doesn't mention anything about turning those settings off however. which is what really caught so many people off guard and rumpled their feathers. Going into a game you're about to run, or switching over to your carefully crafted map, and realizing that the dynamic lighting is off and your players can see everything, and then not being able to find the switch to turn it back on because the UI was changed is a recipe for disaster and it's exactly what happened. Roll20 shouldn't stumbling over basic stuff like this and the fact that it continually does tells us something.
1623313729
Wint
Plus
Tom said: "We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings." VERY concerning to heat about this :( Also would just like to echo this sentiment. Its one thing to no longer support UDL but this is actively phasing it out.
1623326421

Edited 1623326441
David
Pro
Sheet Author
UDL Vs Legacy. &nbsp;
1623328926

Edited 1623329538
Tom
Pro
Wint said: Tom said: "We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings." VERY concerning to heat about this :( Also would just like to echo this sentiment. Its one thing to no longer support UDL but this is actively phasing it out. Hey Wint Thanks for the comment, Roll20 did say they will be phasing it out after they backed out ( THANK GOD!!! ) of that stupid May 18th deadline...... No problem but it seems like an end run to get us to go for the UDL which as most note here still needs a lot of work. For me anyways when UDL gets to the "set and forget" like we have/had?..... for the LDL then its good to go and phase it out no prob, but jumping through all these hoops to even get it sub optimal, well thats not going to cut it in my humble opinion. Yes some people here seem to have it working but even they post lists of things to do/fix/reset, ya know????&nbsp; So its not yet ready even though they say I have no problems/issues with it.... I even have been making some blank games set to LDL&nbsp; so I don't get caught short when the old games only still have access to LDL after I read that post above!! 2 games of Pathfinder 2nd editions Strength of 1000's Adventure Path (The student, then teachers then save the university) Module 1 street date out Aug 25th 2 games of Starfinder Horizons of the Vast Adventure Path (IE Kingmaker in Space) Module 1 street date out July 7th Just my 2 cents worth here as usual :) Tom
1623332109

Edited 1623332927
Katie Mae said: We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings. Games already using the legacy system will still have access. We will be providing more details as we have them and will let you know prior to the change. On a scale of 5 happy faces or sad faces (actual numbers may vary per user) We're sunsetting LDL on an arbitrary date WAY before UDL is production ready :( :( :( :( :( Our community just went berserk so we're not sunsetting LDL :) We're not supporting new dev on LDL (ok) We're automatically deactivating LDL, and changing the UI of LDL so you have to find it :( :( :( UDL is still changing in such a way that users have to reset tokens and games each week :( :( Sike, we are going to sunset LDL for new games before UDL is stable :( :( :( :( :( Total :( = 15 Total :) = 1&nbsp; Success rate 6.66%. I rest my case.
1623336717

Edited 1623336832
Alex
Pro
Apologies that the user interface changes to the legacy system came as a surprise to folks. We had announced them within our June 2nd release notes but we should have been more clear and brought that information to this thread ahead of time as well. It was not our intention to disable LDL token features in your games, this was a graphical error that was showing settings as off despite them being active! You should be able to flip the toggle and get back to playing.&nbsp; It wasn't just an interface change, nor was it a graphical error, Katie. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem. The LDL settings were disabled, as you said in the middle there... there was nothing in the release notes that said anything about disabling the LDL settings. For my part, I was aware of the release notes--I read the release notes!--and the release notes didn't help me understand what was going on. In fact, I still &nbsp;don't know if I should be going back through my 100+ template games to reenable LDL or not. Although, given the next bit of news... We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings. Games already using the legacy system will still have access. We will be providing more details as we have them and will let you know prior to the change. For those of us who run organized play campaigns like me, this is functionally equivalent to disabling LDL. Almost everything I run is a new game... I thought you were going to let us keep using LDL for a while, even if it was largely unsupported? :( I was hoping "unsupported" didn't mean "actively removed it anyway."
1623352383
Wint said: Tom said: "We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings." VERY concerning to heat about this :( Also would just like to echo this sentiment. Its one thing to no longer support UDL but this is actively phasing it out. I would also like to echo this sentiment as well. How am I suppose to use the Dynamic Lighting that I've paid for when the only Dynamic Lighting that works (LDL) is purposely going to be withheld?&nbsp;
1623388884

Edited 1623388898
If you rotate lines on the dynamic lighting layer, it changes the lighting. However! - The lines still act as barriers to movement based on their original orientation.
1623393566
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Sean G. said: If you rotate lines on the dynamic lighting layer, it changes the lighting. However! - The lines still act as barriers to movement based on their original orientation. This was a problem even under LDL. The lines don't like to be rotated.
1623397519
keithcurtis said: Sean G. said: If you rotate lines on the dynamic lighting layer, it changes the lighting. However! - The lines still act as barriers to movement based on their original orientation. This was a problem even under LDL. The lines don't like to be rotated. Yeah, but they improved our ability to rotate them a month ago. &nbsp;So it seems like its something they think we should be able to do?
1623401701
Laurent
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Hi Katie. Will that be fixed in the near future? Katie Mae said: It was not our intention to disable LDL token features in your games, this was a graphical error that was showing settings as off despite them being active! Or do we need to update all tokens on maps and character default tokens?
1623410106
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Katie Mae said: Hi everyone Apologies that the user interface changes to the legacy system came as a surprise to folks. We had announced them within our June 2nd release notes but we should have been more clear and brought that information to this thread ahead of time as well. It was not our intention to disable LDL token features in your games, this was a graphical error that was showing settings as off despite them being active! You should be able to flip the toggle and get back to playing.&nbsp; Regarding the UI changes overall, continuing to maintain two tabs was a point of confusion we wanted to remove. As LDL will receive no further updates ( as mentioned here ), we are prioritizing UDL and want to ensure it is as easy to use as possible . There will be a concentrated effort to reduce the learning curve of our Dynamic Lighting system in the coming weeks, and the UI change was a small piece of this shift In an effort to bring forward information ahead of time, here are some upcoming changes and updates to be aware of in the coming weeks: Colored lighting has moved into early development stages. More info to come soon, keep an eye on the dev server! The remaining “jagged edge” issues are being addressed. We are planning to share some internal metrics with all of you regarding Dynamic Lighting soon. We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings. Games already using the legacy system will still have access. We will be providing more details as we have them and will let you know prior to the change. We will be starting a new DL thread soon, and introducing a new method of public feature reporting for the Dynamic Lighting feature.&nbsp; For those of you looking to continue using LDL we have an outline with screenshots on how to do that on our Help Center .I'll be going through collecting additional info about the other reported issues in this thread, so keep an eye out for that in the coming days. Thanks again, gamers! Katie, Kenton, anyone at Roll20 who cares about the experience of your customers: Could we please have just two months where UDL is stable and working with all of its bugs fixed before LDL is turned off, moved, or otherwise sabotaged? Dynamic Lighting should be an enhancement, an embellishment, to the gaming experience. Right now, UDL is at best a distraction with walls that crawl with moving jagged lines and uneven performance. At worst, there are tokens too dim to see, graphical errors, or a sudden loss of sight. Since the release of UDL, there has not yet been one week where everything worked in UDL and the performance, whether speed or aesthetics, was not a distraction. As a customer, I have been repeatedly pushed in a passive-aggressive manner over the last year to abandon LDL, a system that works reliably every week, for UDL, a system that has some new way that it crashes and burns with each release. As a software developer, I understand that LDL needs to eventually go. Maintaining two systems in parallel is never fun nor efficient. However, I need a working stable &nbsp;system to have confidence that I will be able to run a game without issue. I get to play with my friends for 3 hours a week. After everyone joins, and we have determined that voice chat is not working and head over to Zoom, we have lost up to 20 minutes. If UDL suddenly stops working for a player, or I am unable to determine what people can see, we lose another 20 minutes or more. That's a third of my available time spent in frustration instead of fun. And I am not alone. Over just the last two months, people have reported the following issues within this thread. These include bugs with UDL, LDL being sabotaged, and other issues that came up.&nbsp;I tried to remove as many duplicates as possible, using just the most descriptive issue. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9972468/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9972468/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9973383/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9973383/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9974821/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9974821/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9975845/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9975845/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9979151/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9979151/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9981799/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9981799/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9983022/" 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href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10065363/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10065363/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10069795/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10069795/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10083963/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10083963/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10102756/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10102756/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10107515/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10107515/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10108925/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10108925/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10114083/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10114083/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10116520/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10116520/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10116865/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10116865/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10122570/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10122570/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10124324/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10124324/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10130972/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10130972/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10133885/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10133885/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10136649/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10136649/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10139116/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10139116/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10144009/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10144009/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10144779/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10144779/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10149889/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10149889/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10150826/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10150826/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10153247/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10153247/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10153466/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10153466/</a> <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10154281/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/10154281/</a> If some of those are still duplicates or somehow similar to each other, that is probably still at least one new significant issue every two days. UDL still is not nearly ready. Getting UDL to a point where it is free of disastrous bugs, distracting visual performance, and other game-breaking errors and maintaining it there for two months (or even one month) would result in most everyone here happily making the switch, but UDL has not even been close to being at that point. Get UDL to the point where it is as reliable as LDL, and people will happily make the switch. Until then please stop moving, turning off, or otherwise sabotaging LDL.
1623434808
Katie Mae said: We are at a stage where we are looking towards New Games not having access to legacy lighting settings. I have one simple question: Why?
Happily. Brian C. said: Get UDL to the point where it is as reliable as LDL, and people will happily make the switch. Until then please stop moving, turning off, or otherwise sabotaging LDL.
1623545358
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
I made the switch last month. It's quirky, yes, but if I avoid things like tinted light or expecting Ctrl-L to do more than it's supposed to, I vastly prefer it to the kludginess of Advanced Fog of War. I know it's a pain to work around the bugs, but I've said farewell to LDL.
1623545639
Titus
Plus
keithcurtis said: I made the switch last month. It's quirky, yes, but if I avoid things like tinted light or expecting Ctrl-L to do more than it's supposed to, I vastly prefer it to the kludginess of Advanced Fog of War. I know it's a pain to work around the bugs, but I've said farewell to LDL. Same…
1623547761
Hey Brian C, Thanks for your feedback. To clarify something that I think keeps getting missed, while we will be shutting off LDL at some point, that point is not right this moment. As Katie Mae said earlier , we will be ensuring any further UI changes for LDL are communicated here beforehand as well as in the release notes. I know this forum thread has gotten a bit long and can be hard to parse through, which is a major reason why we’ll be implementing Product Board fairly soon (here’s the Mobile app’s board , if you’d like to check it out!). It will be much easier to see what bugs have been reported, fixed, suggestions in the works, all of it. Now I know your list was intended to show how many issues there have been in the last two months, but I took the chance to check the status of each item. My apologies now for what will be an even longer post. Lag scrolling in UDL vs LDL : Fixed Night Vision not disabling when Vision is turned off : Fixed Night Vision tints overlapping and Total Light issues : Fixed Responses agreeing with the above : Fixed Light breaking when moving from map to map : Fixed Yes, UDL will be the default of any Marketplace item that uses Lighting : not a bug Light breaking when moving from map to map : Fixed Animated tokens freezing in Night Vision overlaps : Fixed Interaction with text boxes : Fixed Zipping around a UDL map causes screen reveals and stuttering : Limitation of technology, unfortunately. Something we keep an eye on as we’re making improvements, to continuously make it faster and smoother. Cross-page problem : Known issue! This is 2 issues , the Dim Light not applying correctly is fixed , the Light Multiplier feedback is a design limitation for the feature. Tokens being transparent to GM on the Token Layer : This particular one should be fixed but sounds similar enough to a different report (#33) that I’d ask if you have this issue, please send your report over via the Help Center ! Nocturnal feedback whilst on the Dev server : Fixed before the feature launched Pages going black — related to #11: Known issue Light sources not working as expected : We’ve been unable to replicate and have received no other related reports. Null values messing with settings : Known issue Light multiplier/Bullseye Effect : Fixed UDL sub-settings not saving when switching between LDL and UDL : Known issue — while this creates an extra step or two, this will likely not be a priority since the workaround is simple and won’t be needed for too long. White blocks appearing for GM only : We’ve been unable to replicate and have received no other related reports. Vision breaking with page switch : Fixed Token managing to explore past a thick line but no light goes past it : This appears to be lines working as currently intended. Keyboard shortcut interfering with browser shortcut : Unfortunately we cannot permanently override browser shortcuts. Cannot manually hide/reveal areas : Fixed Lines blocking movement and light in different ways : Currently how lines work, definitely some UX to look at — please make sure to put something in the Suggestions forum ! Lines of different widths aren’t flush : Currently how lines work. Same as #11! : Known issue Two things here — Explorable/Permanent Darkness: Fixed and Explorable Darkness not remaining explored: Known issue Two things here — Full page reveal is fixed and the opaque reveal is a known issue . Empty games giving an error when trying to convert lighting : Agreed that this is confusing, we have a design ticket for it. Explorable darkness not staying explored : Known issue Tokens going transparent : As with #13, we think we’ve gotten all the transparency issues but please send in a report if you’re experiencing this in any fashion. If it’s related to #33 below, then we’re already working on it. Explorer mode causing transparency for GMs only : Known issue and prioritized! CTRL+L not working : Ctrl+L should be showing the view from a specific token when used. We fixed a number of issues with ctrl+L recently, if you’d like to see different functionality for it, please let us know in the Suggestions forums ! Jagged lines : Final jagged lines bug fix is in progress! Night Vision not working : Fixed Dim light making Night Vision darker : Fixed Light showing as extraordinarily bright on Map and Lighting layers : Fixed Deleting a light source had some players lose sight : This sounds like some of the PCs had Night Vision and some did not, which would lead to a light source deletion taking away light for only some. Explorable darkness not staying explored (same as 28 &amp; 31): Known issue Question about a limit to amount of drawing on the Lighting layer : There is a known issue with having a large number of lines on the Lighting layer. A question about the UI change : It’s a UI change. Confusion about the UI change : It’s a UI change, the LDL turning “off” but not actually was definitely not intended, apologies again for that. Strange colors appearing for GM : Fixed Light Multiplier issues (same as 18): Fixed Significant lag : Unlikely to be UDL-related, we are working on suggested min-specs for the feature though so hopefully that will help a lot in diagnosing the issue. Night Vision color tint making it hard to see anything else (same as 38): Fixed Confusion about the UI change (same as 43): It’s a UI change. Jagged lines (same as 35): Final fix in progress More confusion and a complaint about the UI change (related to 43 &amp; 48): As Katie Mae said in their post, toggling the Legacy Lighting back “on” will realign the UI with the correct behavior. This is a deleted post. Hopefully this helps anyone who has questions related to anything in this list! As for the timeline, I don’t have dates or anything for you at the moment, so I can’t tell you when legacy is officially going away. Like a few of us said before, not ensuring that those of you still using legacy were warned before the UI change was a mistake, and one we will not make again. I’m sorry about that. More fixes and features are on their way for Dynamic Lighting and I cannot wait to share what’s coming with you all!
1623551330
Finally took the plunge. I'm not using tinting. Trusting that the nocturnal setting is working as it should (and it does seem to be). No issues experienced, and I definitely appreciate the way that vision and light have been separated, so that a character can both 1) see 60' in darkness, and 2) light a torch.
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Edited 1623552524
Bunny said: &lt;Large List&gt; Hopefully this helps anyone who has questions related to anything in this list! Thanks for going through that list Bunny.&nbsp; That's awesome. Minor note - #45 is *not* fixed.&nbsp; I can submit a bug report if you guys need it.&nbsp; But it's pretty much just: 1) Turn on bright and low light with some values for a token. 2) Save 3) Turn off Bright Light while leaving the value set. 4) Save 5) Futz with low light value and look at the resulting total light being dumb. And 47 isn't the same as 38.&nbsp; But not sure if it's actually a bug, or just a design decision I don't like.
1623552440
Sean G, yes please submit a bug report! That would rock. I'll drop a note to the devs so they'll be on the lookout. I also greatly appreciate the way you edited the quote, that made me laugh (and talk about hella accurate XD). And Craig M, thank you so much for the feedback!
1623568427
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Just finished tonight's session. Ctrl-L is much better than previous weeks. In most cases, it is giving me a better line of sight. I did not have any game breaking, or even game-interrupting issues, despite constantly flipping light sources and vision settings for multiple characters, using macros. I am very pleased with the advances made in the last few months. It feels like announcing (even though later rescinding) the sunset date lit a fire wherever the fires needed to be lit. I don't know (and kind of doubt) that UDL will ever be perfect , but then again, neither was LDL. Thank you to the devs on the team who have been working to improve this. The efforts are noted.
1623571898
Played yesterday, 5 PCs, mix of nocturnal and standard vision, 3 different maps, indoor and out, torches, lanterns and many, many walls, dim lights, bright lights.&nbsp; Worked like a dream.&nbsp; Yes the lines separating light and dark are a little jagged but my players are more interested in "what's over there?"&nbsp; and just loved the nocturnal vision thing.&nbsp; Thank you
1623573976
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Bunny said: Hey Brian C, Thanks for your feedback. To clarify something that I think keeps getting missed, while we will be shutting off LDL at some point, that point is not right this moment. As Katie Mae said earlier , we will be ensuring any further UI changes for LDL are communicated here beforehand as well as in the release notes. I know this forum thread has gotten a bit long and can be hard to parse through, which is a major reason why we’ll be implementing Product Board fairly soon (here’s the Mobile app’s board , if you’d like to check it out!). It will be much easier to see what bugs have been reported, fixed, suggestions in the works, all of it. Now I know your list was intended to show how many issues there have been in the last two months, but I took the chance to check the status of each item. My apologies now for what will be an even longer post. *snip* Hopefully this helps anyone who has questions related to anything in this list! As for the timeline, I don’t have dates or anything for you at the moment, so I can’t tell you when legacy is officially going away. Like a few of us said before, not ensuring that those of you still using legacy were warned before the UI change was a mistake, and one we will not make again. I’m sorry about that. More fixes and features are on their way for Dynamic Lighting and I cannot wait to share what’s coming with you all! Bunny, it's great that so many things have been fixed, really. I also look forward to seeing the next evolution of bug and suggestion management. It will be nice to have something with visibility where bug reports don't just disappear into the ether. As you rightly pointed out, and as I was aware, many of those items are fixed, and my primary point was to show that new bugs which are either distracting or crippling to gameplay are constantly popping up. With UDL, I would not know whether I can just show up for a session and play on any given week. As a customer, I am looking for software that has the functionality that I want, performs well, and works reliably. UDL has not fully reached that point yet in any of those aspects. When UDL has demonstrated for an extended period that it is stable and isn't a distraction to the gameplay (no crawling walls when tokens move), I will happily switch over to UDL. In the meantime, measures which have pushed UDL before it is ready are really frustrating (constant nag screens, announcing the sunset of LDL after 5 months of UDL's public availability, switching marketplace products to UDL, announcing a very-broken UDL as version 1.0, burying the LDL interface, breaking compatibility of existing content, etc.). So much of Roll20's communication and actions over the past 14 months with regards to UDL has not been consistent with its actual functionality and performance. Actions have been taken which make the experience of your users worse, and the corresponding communication paints a bright, rosy picture where everything is moving forward swimmingly. Regularly, users have vocally raised their objections to what would have seemed to be really obvious missteps on Roll20's part, and only after it has reached a crescendo of negative feedback does Roll20 issue a mea culpa and a pledge to do better. . . before doing the same thing again in a month or two. . . and again. . . and again. This communicates to me that Roll20's development and rollout of products has more to do with getting things out the door and ticked off the list rather than delivering great products and a great user experience. New features that are designed to be great for users are not great if they do not work (and the option that works well is sabotaged). If UDL performed well and was reliable, there would not be an issue. If Roll20 did not constantly take actions to sideline LDL and and promote UDL before it was ready, there would not be an issue. However, Roll20 has consistently chosen to stay squarely in the spot on the Venn diagram where those two overlap and continued the missteps, which makes the mea culpas ring hollow. I see this and wonder, "Is Roll20 not aware, or is it just not important to them?" Roll20 will retain and gain more customers if UDL was first brought to the point where your customers would be proud to use it before making it more difficult to use the legacy option. Roll20 has historically struggled in two key areas: honest communication on a large scale (blog posts and announcements, one-on-one communication is usually pretty good) and releasing new features that are not broken in obvious ways. The rollout of UDL shines a spotlight on those, and watch the same mistakes made again and again. I wonder at what point UDL will be abandoned as "good enough" and join animation uploads that silently fail, animation performance, journal buttons that can't handle colons, a VTT that cuts off part of the play area at various zoom levels, distorted images across the website, and so many other "broken windows" (highly-visible areas of neglect). There have been so many promises to do better. There has been so little actually doing better. I look forward to the product board. I look forward to a UDL product that works reliably and has has the performance and features of LDL. Most importantly, I look forward to a Roll20 that acts in their customers' best interests first, without needing a concerted effort from customers to show them the way after the fact.
1623575509

Edited 1623576503
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Simon G. said: Played yesterday, 5 PCs, mix of nocturnal and standard vision, 3 different maps, indoor and out, torches, lanterns and many, many walls, dim lights, bright lights.&nbsp; Worked like a dream.&nbsp; Yes the lines separating light and dark are a little jagged but my players are more interested in "what's over there?"&nbsp; and just loved the nocturnal vision thing.&nbsp; Thank you keithcurtis said: Just finished tonight's session. Ctrl-L is much better than previous weeks. In most cases, it is giving me a better line of sight. I did not have any game breaking, or even game-interrupting issues, despite constantly flipping light sources and vision settings for multiple characters, using macros. I am very pleased with the advances made in the last few months. It feels like announcing (even though later rescinding) the sunset date lit a fire wherever the fires needed to be lit. I don't know (and kind of doubt) that UDL will ever be perfect , but then again, neither was LDL. Thank you to the devs on the team who have been working to improve this. The efforts are noted. Craig M. &nbsp;said: Finally took the plunge. I'm not using tinting. Trusting that the nocturnal setting is working as it should (and it does seem to be). No issues experienced, and I definitely appreciate the way that vision and light have been separated, so that a character can both 1) see 60' in darkness, and 2) light a torch. A stable period where people share more reports like this,&nbsp;the rest of the bugs are fixed and performance issues resolved, and new bugs are not created will go a long way toward showing that UDL is actually ready. Thanks for the encouraging reports.
1623581035

Edited 1623581317
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Some of these answers are really disappointing. 22.&nbsp; Token managing to explore past a thick line but no light goes past it : This appears to be lines working as currently intended. It is intended behavior to be able to look into walls? 23.&nbsp; Keyboard shortcut interfering with browser shortcut : Unfortunately we cannot permanently override browser shortcuts. I used to be able to position lines with Alt + arrow keys without issue. When did this change? &nbsp;I just went back to test this, and I can move a line with Alt+Left Arrow in LDL. It only kicks me out in UDL. 34.&nbsp; Lines blocking movement and light in different ways : Currently how lines work, definitely some UX to look at — please make sure to put something in the&nbsp; Suggestions forum ! 35.&nbsp; Lines of different widths aren’t flush : Currently how lines work. *Sigh* LDL works with any combination of line widths on any map art. Someone can set up the lines and be confident in what the end result is going to be with a quick double-check with Ctrl+L on the DL layer to see if things line up perfectly. Different line widths can be used to make it easier to only move the elements of the map that are intended to be moved (such as doors). This set of responses communicate that UDL only works if a user sets up a map with lines of regular weight. Extra large lines can be seen into, and lines of different widths cannot always be lined up. If a user lines up lines for vision, the lines won't be lined up for movement. Running even a regular line weight can block map art on certain maps so that players have a hard time telling whether they are looking at a wall or a door. UDL works in a narrower set of line widths and map art, breaks the visual representation of some maps set up under LDL, has bizarre behavior with XL lines that is apparently intentional, lets users see through/around corners at a distance, and can block some map art. Asking for a user to make an entry in the Suggestion forum to preserve the versatility that has been around for years with LDL is disappointing. It communicates to me that Roll20 does not care about providing products with a high level of polish; everyone should just settle for "good enough," even if that is not as good as it used to be.
Roll20, I hope you're listening to Brian's posts. A number of people here feel the way he does.&nbsp;