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UDL 1.0 Updates, Bugs, & Feedback

1613835740
I've been  having an issues for a while now where tokens and even cards are semi-transparent on the play space when Explorer Mode is turned on.
1613837749

Edited 1613838255
Tom
Pro
VERY frustrating for me , my 7 games and 36+ weekly players as well needless to say.... Lets look at the specifics here "If you’re using LDL but haven’t switched to UDL, there are some differences, for example: The user interface is more clear, more organized, and more intuitive. Permanent Darkness and the polygon reveal/hide tools are integrated directly into the system. This was only possible in the previous system by turning one feature off, then adding shapes, then turning light back on. Updated Dynamic Lighting and Explorer Mode work together. The effects of Advanced Fog of War were very taxing on computing resources, so much so that we didn’t ship content with Advanced Fog of War included. Advanced Fog of War’s “replacement,” Explorer Mode, uses far less resources and allows us to easily ship content with that feature built-in. We’ve reduced the total number of settings to make it more clear which areas reveal Advanced Fog of War. Dim Light and Bright Light are set independently from each other, eliminating LDL’s tedious “Dim Light Starts At” calculations. Dim Light is now adjustable for each Token Explorer Mode! In Advanced Fog of War, you could have Light set up and see another token’s light, but the area revealed by the other token  would not  be revealed in Advanced Fog of War. “All Lights” reveals areas for Explorer mode. No more “ Light Crumbs ,” which Advanced Fog of War required. Significantly-improved performance. Explorer Mode reveals in a radius - not the grid squares like Advanced Fog of War required, which players reported were a source of confusion and frustration. Light and Vision are different things. This makes setting up games much easier, and improves performance for GMs. Night Vision. No more confusion around if a Token can see this light. Built-in Night Vision for UDL, which was previously only available as a workaround in the legacy system, requiring more than one token for one character. Differentiate between “seen with light” vs “seen with Night Vision” using Effects. Tint Colors allow users to better customize their games.. Directional Vision and Light. Token can have directional vision  and  directional light  or  both – great for creepy games like  Call of Cthulhu . UDL lets you set the range to be centered at any point around a token. This used to be a static starting point, and caused a big problem that required editing the token images if you wanted it to line up." Never really saw the need for this compared to regular old Dynamic lighting have has been my stand by!! IE I set the game up pop in and just play, no "I wonder what will work, what will be broken this time, EVERY SESSION........ Then we have this "What do those fixes, updates and tweaks look like? Here’s what we’re committed to fix before we retire LDL: PAGE REVEAL : This is an old problem that we believed to be fixed, but we have seen reports of it resurfacing. If you’re experiencing this issue,  please let us know ! SETTINGS : There are reports of UDL settings not saving. We’ve released a patch that we believe solves this but will continue to monitor to see if it crops back up. JAGGED LINES : Some usage of UDL can cause jagged lines on the fringes of token vision. We are currently working on an anti-aliasing solution. LAG : We’ve heard you: Lag is the number 1 reason users aren’t converting to UDL. Since UDL started, we’ve put out a number of patches to improve performance; we are actively improving response times with each update. We’re currently testing a solution that will significantly improve network performance that we will be rolling out in the next couple of weeks. NIGHT VISION : There are parts of Night Vision that still need to be fixed, like Night Vision tokens overlapping and animated tokens having a ghost like effect on the GM layer" THIS has me VERY concerned a s well as a year+ now and this is still not figured out........!!  And all the game crashing problems still are NOT LISTED here Then the final kicker, IE the escape clause so when/if the list next is still not fixed by the end date we will still work on it AFTER we sunset it but now with no alternative!! "We also have a few issues that we’re still collecting info on. While these bugs are high priority, we’re still investigating the best way to fix them. If you are experiencing any of these, please report it in our bug forum. The following is a list of fixes that will be addressed either before sunsetting LDL or   sometime soon after RING/BULLSEYE EFFECT : There is a documented issue where some light sources have a ring/bullseye effect to them. PAGE FREEZING : There have been a handful of reports of UDL freezing games. We’re currently determining the root cause of these freezes. This is the bug we currently need the most information on. If you’ve experienced it, please  let us know through our Help Center . GRID : We’ve received reports of Players and GMs losing sight of the grid when using characters with Night Vision. VISIBILITY : We’ve received reports of Players and GMs losing their sight, or experiencing tokens disappearing after moving specific tokens." Been on Roll20 for almost 9 years now and have seen a LOT of things  happen but this will finally most likely make me leave it. Roll20, PLEASE please just start over as what you are doing is clearly not working.  Have you noted that only a HANDFULL of people posting here (and in the old thread) have had no problems but MOST have daily game breaking ones that ruin a session time after time after time. I'm sure the 8.5 Million people now using your system makes you think you have a cushion to take the hit of lost users, but I would'nt be to sure of that as GM's leaving means their players will as well right?.......  Again, leave the Legacy up and don't force us to leave your platform and just take a fresh start and come up with something that works as reliably as Legacy Tom
1613839879
Tom
Pro
OF NOTE I started a Don't sunset Dynamic Lighting suggestion in the suggestion forum so you can also show Roll20 your voice/vote, but I suspect for what its worth but you never know til one tries and sees the votes in there...... <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/9827436/dont-sunset-legacy-dynamic-lighting-on-may-18th-2021" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/9827436/dont-sunset-legacy-dynamic-lighting-on-may-18th-2021</a> Cheers Tom
1613840042
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
" Here’s what we’re committed to fix before we retire LDL" seems pretty clear to me. If those bugs aren't fixed, the date will be moved. I'm not that worried.
1613845686

Edited 1613846068
Katie Mae
Roll20 Team
Hi everyone!&nbsp; The team is still working on answers to your most pertinent questions about the LDL sunset date, but I needed to drop by and tell you that we put out a hotfix for UDL today. Thanks to your reports here in the forum, we were able to identify an issue that was causing map reveals to sync for all players while in explorer mode.&nbsp; This fix is live now! Thank you all for helping us identify this problem. If you've ever had sections of the map be revealed without visiting them, this fix should solve this issue.&nbsp;
keithcurtis said: " Here’s what we’re committed to fix before we retire LDL" seems pretty clear to me. If those bugs aren't fixed, the date will be moved. I'm not that worried. But the fact that they set a date before those issues are resolved is what leads people to conclude that the date is set in stone, and is more important than getting the issues fixed. Roll20 does not usually give dates as they don't want to be held to those dates in case "things happen." The history of UDL is full of "things happening," so it seems very unusual that they commit to a date here, unless the date is not slipping, no matter what happens. I believe this disconnect from past Roll20 policy is contributing to user anxiety. A relative date would be better to state, IMO, e.g., "30 days after the last UDL issue from [list of issues here] is fixed, and no new major bugs appear, LDL will be shut down." Even clearly stating what Keith says above would go a long way to help allay concerns.
1613848667
I was going to test out UDL in my game this week, but I can't because it still&nbsp; doesn't offer any means of doing D&amp;D 5e's darkvision. I can't even give UDL an honest college try because core, basic functionality is missing—functionality that is necessary to use the lighting system with respect to the rules of the most popular RPG in the world. Without the ability to make the players see dim light where there is darkness and bright light where there is dim light, UDL is simply incompatible with 5e. I don't want &nbsp;to change VTT, but if a core feature of 5e, the game I play, is simply not possible to achieve in Roll20, then what choice do I have? Dynamic lighting is meaningless to me if I can't use it in a way that follows the rules of the game I play, never mind the game that most &nbsp;people on Roll20 play. As far as I'm concerned, if UDL isn't compatible with 5e, then it may as well not exist at all.
1613849057
Ravenknight
KS Backer
Katie Mae said: I know there are some in this thread who still don’t feel UDL is right for their games...
Thank you, Katie Mae! I am concerned about the issue Josiah raised regarding 5e darkvision. I am an LDL DM looking to switch to UDL. What are the best practices for setting up 5e darkvision when using UDL in its current form?
I've held off posting anything for now because LDL was still a valid option for users to rely on and as such UDL and it's failure to preform had an easy enough work around by simply not using it. At this point however I now feel like it's important to make sure my perspective is heard. My name is Edward Patch and I'm a professional GM, I currently have 10 different campaigns running (4 official 5e, 3 custom settings using 5e 2 Cyberpunk Red and 1 Call of Cthulhu) totaling about 40+ different players across all my games, I've played hundreds if not thousands of hours using R20 over the years the majority of which I've spent setting up games (since 2016 at least). I like to think I'm familiar with R20 at this point on account of the above and have a unique perspective as I actively use the program to earn my living full time.&nbsp; UDL may be the straw that breaks my back and pushes me to abandon the numerous tokens, modules and books I've purchased on it to move my business to a more quality service. When I pay for content on this VTT I expect two things, Quality and Functionality, something that UDL has none of. The endless bugs and issues present in it have persisted through update after update and month after month, UDL is nowhere near &nbsp;a finished project. Slapping a 1.0 on it and claiming it's ready to be rolled out while removing the functional version of Dynamic Lighting is ridiculous and insulting to your customers intelligence. To make matters worse is the moronic timing of UDL. UDL began getting pushy around the time Covid was in full swing, I recall because several major issues with the program caused players in my games to raise complaints, in the following months I wrestled constantly with UDL only to have updates bring back bugs they'd previously removed until it hit the point that I just swapped back to legacy. Doing so removed all issues with the games, I never had to worry about glitches or issues again. Occasionally I've booted up a game or tried to start a new campaign with UDL only to find that none of the primary issues have been fixed. UDL is a fat lump of coal that R20 is trying to wrap up in pretty paper to push in our faces, nobody wanted to use it because it wasn't ready and so R20 is now taking our perfectly functional toys away to force this garbage on us. I want to speak directly to all the employees and management at R20 when I remind you, I DO NOT USE THIS VTT TO PAY FOR EARLY ACCESS . LDL has minimal to no bugs or issues in it, if on release UDL has ANY &nbsp;of the current issues I'll be taking my business elsewhere and I'll be recommending to my player base and any other GM I come across to do the same. I've already stopped purchasing content on this site (aside from upkeeping my sub) for the time being thanks to the above issues I've pointed out. TLDR; UDL bad for my business, force it and I'll find a place good for my business. Edward Patch
Hello, &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am bring up my concerns again and adding to them because they don't seem to be addressed by the update nor by the new forum as of yet (I posted in the old forum).&nbsp; Unless it is being chalked up to processing issues, which doesn't make sense because I give it plenty of time to load, I have tried reloading, even logging in different times after shutting down the machine and browser, and everything once worked absolutely fine last fall when I started making the maps and trying out UDL, then I don't think my issue is being heard.&nbsp; These issues do not seem to be addressed yet. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have several tokens that are grouped at the bottom of this map each emitting 10 ft of low light, but the light is inverted and moves when I scroll.&nbsp; I also have a stationary light source that I switch to as part of the map layer (a circle stone shrine) that emits no light with the low light 0 ft set to "on", which should illuminate it and only it, but light doesn't show up aligned properly, so I thought it wasn't even showing up at all at first.&nbsp; When I click on a token sometimes it briefly shows the correct lighting situation very briefly and then it disappears.&nbsp; As a player view, you can only see the tokens, no light, no map revealed.&nbsp; Moving tokens does not fix or change anything in either mode.&nbsp; After having my players try it out, they reported that they could see things they were suppose to until they moved, then everything, save their token, went black.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thus I have two errors: 1. light is not properly anchored to light sources (inverted and does not move with token, but moves when scrolling) 2. players can no longer see anything when one of them moves their token &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If these issues are not fixed, I will likely look elsewhere for VTT services, since this is crucial to game play and theses UDL problems render lighting and sight rules useless.&nbsp; It totally shatters the experience, since the only manageable way to play is with UDL off.&nbsp; Since I have never used LDL previously, I am unfamiliar with it, but I still can't even seem to get it to replace UDL for the time being.&nbsp; LDL features don't seem to work for me either (I am not sure what that issue is, but it may be similar).&nbsp; So I only have the option of using no DL system at all.... thus everything is always daytime and that just doesn't work.&nbsp; Does anyone get this?&nbsp; Does anyone have suggestions?&nbsp; Does anyone understand the frustration?&nbsp; I have been okay with Roll20 up till now, but this is a bit disappointing.&nbsp; I don't want to have to switch VTT for my players sake and all the lost effort, but if need be I will, or at least stop my subscription.&nbsp; Please reach out if you have more questions or need clarification from me to figure out how to fix these issues.&nbsp;
Hey! So, I'm having major problems with the dynamic lighting. The most, uh, visible is this graphics glitch, which seems to sometimes just... happen to me on load-in: And when I reloaded, I got this: These latter pictures are with UDL off and UDL on. Both totally unusable, obviously. I managed to dismiss it by completely closing the Roll20 tab and reopening it, then reopening the game. I've experienced this as both a player and a DM. It's more or less fixable, but it's random and it's annoying. Then again, I'm also the only one I know of seeing this, so it might be on my end. More seriously, I'm also having a glitch where my players are losing vision when they move their token. Clicking into view mode shows me that they can see their own token, the greyscale of Explorer mode, and no other tokens or light sources despite pretty much everyone having a light source, night vision, or both. I as a DM can see everything (when I'm not seeing the Prismatic Wall exhibited above), so I have no idea that this has happened until they tell me, and it causes major disruptions to gameplay. The latter glitch, with players losing their vision when they move their tokens, makes the game unplayable. They have to reload every time, and it happens again every time they move their tokens. As you can probably see from the screenshots, we're playing Curse of Strahd, and I do not relish the thought of going without DL while running Ravenloft--especially since I've paid for the privilege. I really hope you guys have a fix for this coming down the pipes, because it makes the feature unworkable and I'm probably going to have to go back to just using regular Fog of War.
1613865838
I'm experiencing vision issues with night vision and the explore mode. The explore mode completely removed darkness from areas but could not view the zone in fog of war once line of sight was blocked. I've been on LDL and strongly prefer it because while not perfect, it works very reliably.
UDL lags too much it does feel like an beta still. Takes WAY too long to set up and and keeps bugging out,like half of the time overlapping player sights causes a black spot for the DM Legacy is better, it should still have both options
1613890412
I've been running weekly on Roll20 for 6 years now.&nbsp; I've gotten annoyed as others have derided the programmers/management in praise of new VTTs - needlessly splitting a player base is never a good idea.&nbsp; UDL was reportedly coming along - LDL sometimes caused some lag issues, I was hopeful. Aug 2020: "UDL is on parity!" - *Optimism* Cool! Let's try it out... oh.. some bug concerns, let's make a copy of a page - Ack!&nbsp; Roll20 completely crashed, would not load up in one browser at all, barely functioned enough to delete the page in another.&nbsp; Surely that was just a bad bug - how about if I copy... CRASH.. forced to revert to an earlier day (yay for that setting I didn't know about). Late Aug 2020: *Wariness* Okay, so it's still coming, maybe I need to give this a fuller test - let's try copying a game... um... copy please?... still not there..&nbsp; Report bug: "Hey.. my copy game never finished".&nbsp; Nov-Dec response: "Hey, we totally should have gotten to this bug earlier - I'm sure it's fixed already, but if it's not let us know!" - "Hi Roll20 - no, not fixed, still can't copy my games".&nbsp; [crickets] Jan 2020: "It's really here this time, we promise!"&nbsp; *Skepticism healthy* Go and check the forums... yeah.. same bugs Feb 2020: "We said it's here, and now you have 3 months to try it out!... before we pull the rug out from under you - and we promise those game-breaking bugs will be gone by the *END* of your 3 months of transition... well.. some of them anyhow"&nbsp; *Fury* Do you *want* all our players to give up on VTTs as you force everyone to be beta testers for 3 months? [and probably longer?] We need a good solid transition period *AFTER* you fix the bugs - why would we start earlier?&nbsp; Set whatever internal deadlines you want.&nbsp; If you're desperate for beta testers - Ask!&nbsp; If you still don't have enough - offer free features for X months.&nbsp; If your system is going to utterly fail if you don't throw the switch May 18... your problems are much bigger than can be fixed by those around you. Personally , I have to prepare a new Adventure Path volume (6 months of content) starting in the next few weeks.&nbsp; If by the time I start that, the bugs aren't all gone, or this stupid mandate of May 18 isn't, I won't be building it here.&nbsp; And that's coming&nbsp;from one of your defenders.
I have no bug to report, as I have not been using UDL for about half a year now, when it was absolutely gamebreaking. However, I have been closely following this feedback thread and the previous, and the one before that. Today I want to add my voice to the dozens of other disappointed costumers and say that I am actively preparing to leave Roll20 for good, in favour of a more customer friendly and overall better VTT solution. This sucks. I have been playing and DMing on Roll20 for almost four years now, and I reached the magical number of 1111 hours played not long ago. I mostly enjoyed my time here, and I have spent a lot of money over the years on subscriptions, compendium content and marketplace items, so it is not an easy decision. However, I find the way that development of Roll20 progresses and customers are treated increasingly appalling. From broken voice &amp; video chat that gets 'fixed' but does not work any better than before, over long requested features like better audio management that sees half-hearted implementation that misses the point completely , to the farce that is UDL and the end of LDL, I have seen a lot in my time here and it is almost fascinating to me how little Roll20 seems to understand what their users/customers want and need, or that they simply do not care. When the page toolbar finally got a vertical scrollbar, there was a post on the Roll20 subreddit , titled: "Congratulations, Roll20! It's been a long and difficult journey, but we always knew you could do it! Yes, folks, it's true! After only seven years: Roll20 has made an improvement that doesn't suck!" I think this sums up the situation perfectly. I am disappointed, and to be honest, a little bit angry. I, as many others in this thread and across the community, want(ed) Roll20 to succeed. But it almost feels like Roll20 does not want the same. For a very long time, I stayed with Roll20 because it was the most complete and simply best working VTT overall out there. Now, this has changed and there are alternatives that are just... better. So I have to accept that after all these hours on this platform, it is time to move on.
1613915904

Edited 1613915925
Olav
Plus
(...expects an additional "Pro Legacy" tier of subscription around May 20th. For an additional $5 you can still use LDL.)&nbsp; That's the way to go. That's the way to make some more money from those pesky DMs who keep the service relevant. ;-)
1613926860
Gold
Forum Champion
What Majuba said: Many Roll20 Users will want a significant, long transition period AFTER the UDL bugs are fixed. I appreciate the 2+ Months of advance notice, but, I think that date should be cancelled, reset &amp; announced for 2+ months AFTER the known bugs are addressed. Majuba said: We need a good solid transition period *AFTER* you fix the bugs - why would we start earlier?&nbsp; Set whatever internal deadlines you want.&nbsp;
Wint said: Katie Mae said: For those of you who are using LDL, how can we help you feel comfortable in making the switch? The responses you're going to get to this will all boil down to the same thing; "if UDL actually worked..." Yeah, exactly that. Fix it and maybe&nbsp; we'll consider switching. And since you made an expiration date of LDL in May - if you don't fix it by then and you will delete LDL then you will have one less long-time client. Me and my players were subscribed to plus/pro versions for almost 4 years now.
1613945891
Mox
Pro
I'm not really the type to complain on a forum here, but UDL is just not working at all in any of my games that use it. As soon as a token with UDL features is placed on the page and moves even a little bit, everyone loses sight. I've tried every configuration of night vision, dim light, bright light, no light, explorable darkness, and global illumination possible, and it just doesn't work and hasn't worked for months. I'm really trying to give the benefit of the doubt here, but the feature just doesn't seem functional in any regard; it's never worked as advertised and the above image is what happens every single time, on every single map. This character has 120 foot all around night vision; the visible area is explorable darkness that reveals when the token is first placed on the page, and all sight breaks after any character moves. This isn't even a huge map with a ton of lighting barriers or sources behind the scenes. I just can't figure out if this is user error or not, but seeing as I used the somewhat more complicated LDL without issue for a very long time (without advanced fog of war, that was performance murder in Chrome), I feel at least a little sure that I'm not a complete doofus. I don't think this feature is ready for prime time in the least. Please reconsider and please address the issues people are reporting before nuking LDL entirely.
1613949011
This seems to have been a common problem, but the lag of UDL has rendered the game unplayable every time I have tried to switch.&nbsp; I run larger than average maps I think - some of them are a couple hundred squares across - but the legacy dynamic lighting has always worked fine despite the warnings in Roll20 that it might load slowly. On the other hand, I have tried updated dynamic lighting on at least three occasions. Once the game wouldn't load at all and the other two times it was unbearably laggy. Characters couldn't even move.&nbsp; I do appreciate some of the features in new dynamic lighting, but basic functionality is obviously more important. Having spent literally hours trying to get UDL to work in the past, I do not have any confidence it is suddenly going to be fixed. Please do not break my games.&nbsp;
1613950713
Just had a game where it was almost impossible to play. Players torches were impossible to set up due to the token settings reseting as soon as they got moved. When I moved player tokens the players could not see where they got moved. An enemy token was stuck in a single square for them while it was moved on my side.
1614018655
I've run into an issue testing out the UDL Convert Lighting Tool on the Out of the Abyss module. I haven't found a similar report yet, but please point me to it if this has already been resolved. It seems to be a problem with the LDL setup in this module (I haven't checked others). Almost none of the tokens have "Has Sight" checked originally, which means they are not given "Vision" when converted to UDL. Since that setting never gets changed, I think they are in-turn blocked from having "Night Vision" set based on their "Light Radius" setting. If I manually turn on Vision and Night Vision a token will inherit the correct "Night Vision Distance" from the LDL settings, which I think supports my theory. I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this very well. Bottom line is there's like 200+ tokens in this module and the vast majority of them should have some amount of Night Vision. The Convert Lighting Tool does not set this up and I really don't want to have to do it manually.
1614019315
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
I believe it is intentional that no npc has sight enabled by default.&nbsp; Every additional token that has sight enabled increases the rendering/processing load, so everything that doesn't need sight shouldn't have it.&nbsp; Keeping the tokens with sight to a minimum should help reduce lag.
1614019788
Ahh, I see. I guess that makes sense. Nobody is really viewing the world through the NPC's eyes but me. So I should only worry about the PCs and the bare minimum of NPCs to maximize performance? I'll test out UDL on the next map. Thanks for the reply!
1614025007

Edited 1614025533
Well- Roll20, you are complete and utter liars.&nbsp; About a month ago, I was assured by a Roll20 employee&nbsp; that you would keep LDL until UDL was usable. That thread has since been locked, I'm sure in advance of the backlash that you knew you'd get after the announcement of ending LDL. IT IS NOT USABLE.&nbsp; I am switching to another platform.&nbsp; I cannot express how mad this makes me- you are a terrible, dishonest company who lies to paying customers. PS-&nbsp; I know this post is not productive but I'm pretty mad at all the time I wasted and money I spent on this useless platform.
1614034750
Katie Mae - Thanks for the work you're doing. As long as we're going to be beta testers, is there any chance that we could get a better indication of what bugs are understood and just still require some work vs the ones you're still trying to track down?&nbsp; I submitted game I had with a repeatable way for make tokens lose vision when moved.&nbsp; I'm happy to submit more of that or of other things I've seen if it would help and more examples are needed.&nbsp; But I've just been assuming that it's unnecessary for many of the things reported as they're fairly trivial to consistently reproduce in a clean new game with a few tokens just based on what people have posted here.
1614035586
Apologies if this has been mentioned. Did a quick scan and didn't see anything. I just tried to convert my game to the UDL and I was placed in a queue.&nbsp; This game is currently at position number&nbsp; 2323 &nbsp;in line, waiting to convert legacy dynamic lighting to updated dynamic lighting. This process could take several minutes. You do not need to manually refresh this page. A notification will automatically appear once this process finishes. When I start about 45 min ago I was at 1733, the queue seems to be moving in the wrong direction.&nbsp; Are new submissions being placed at the start of the queue, or am I overlooking something embarrassingly obvious?&nbsp;
1614036540

Edited 1614039137
Why are roll20 going to remove LDL? I don't understand ANYTHING, why not just leave it and let everyone choose the way they want between ULD or LDL? UDL sucks.... sucks a lot.&nbsp; Currently UDL does not even remotely emulate night vision in 5e like LDL.....&nbsp;(because the difference is abysmal). LDL Enviroment: Darkness Token vision, emit light 60/ dim light -5 (other players can't see): (darkvision)&nbsp; In darknes: &nbsp;The token see as if it were in dim light. The effect is very real to the 5e system . Dim light: The token see as if it were in in bright light. ----- UDL Enviroment: &nbsp;Darkness Token vision, Nightvision 60': &nbsp;(darkvision)&nbsp; In darknes: &nbsp;The token see as if it were in bright light.&nbsp; What the hell? Dim light: &nbsp;The token see as if it were in&nbsp;in bright light. Ok that's correctly 5e vision rules ( Which LDL does very well,&nbsp;but UDL is unable ) Normal : can't see in darkness, can see the dim light and bright light.&nbsp; Darkvision : in darkness see as dim light, and in dim light see as bright light.&nbsp;&nbsp; Why don't you ask how many use LDL and how many use UDL? I assure you that 5e and similar players ALL use LDL, so there must be a reason, right?&nbsp;The answer is obvious, ULD does not emulate D&amp;D 5e darkvision.&nbsp; I'm super unhappy with the news that roll20 are going to eliminate LDL, when there is not even a good product with UDL. It's a joke, really.&nbsp; Eliminating LDL is a serious mistake.... It is absurd to announce the closure of LDL without having a useful, efficient, operational and tested alternative. The change will be requested or demanded by the users .... if they start using UDL and abandon LDL. But at present, I doubt that there are people who want to use UDL. D&amp;D 5e users NONE.&nbsp; I hope roll20 will take this into account, because many people think like me.
1614038843

Edited 1614039174
CC
Plus
I attempted to convert from LDL to UDL in one of my games, and I'm continuously falling further and further back in the queue. The text blurb suggests it should only take a few minutes, but it's been more than and hour, and I'll plummet nothing short of 1000 positions in queue and that number keeps growing. My game server is now completely inaccessible and I can find no way to cancel the process. Here's the link to my affected game server if that's of any help:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/1841906/stars-of-spectrame" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/1841906/stars-of-spectrame</a> This is rather concerning, since it's one of my smaller LDL-based servers. And here are images of the queue. These screenshots were taken about five seconds apart.&nbsp; <a href="https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560586184949841/PKGF4f5.png" rel="nofollow">https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560586184949841/PKGF4f5.png</a> <a href="https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560653725958174/T6ns6AJ.png" rel="nofollow">https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560653725958174/T6ns6AJ.png</a> My position in queue has since increased by about 100.
1614040245
It went up by 1000 for me, then it just randomly said completed.&nbsp; As far as I can tell, the numbers mean nothing.&nbsp; It took about an hour and a half. Brox said: I attempted to convert from LDL to UDL in one of my games, and I'm continuously falling further and further back in the queue. The text blurb suggests it should only take a few minutes, but it's been more than and hour, and I'll plummet nothing short of 1000 positions in queue and that number keeps growing. My game server is now completely inaccessible and I can find no way to cancel the process. Here's the link to my affected game server if that's of any help:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/1841906/stars-of-spectrame" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/1841906/stars-of-spectrame</a> This is rather concerning, since it's one of my smaller LDL-based servers. And here are images of the queue. These screenshots were taken about five seconds apart.&nbsp; <a href="https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560586184949841/PKGF4f5.png" rel="nofollow">https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560586184949841/PKGF4f5.png</a> <a href="https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560653725958174/T6ns6AJ.png" rel="nofollow">https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748067476692271114/813560653725958174/T6ns6AJ.png</a> My position in queue has since increased by about 100.
Bumping this again because I think it's useful information. In general, it would be good to have an official Roll20 "Here are the settings we reccommend for emulating 5e Darkvision in UDL." Craig M. said: I care! Thanks for this information. Very helpful. Brian C. said: By the way for anyone who cares: the slider has 17 positions. If you number them 0 to 16, position 5 is equivalent to LDL's dim light.
1614042331
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Hey everyone, Wanted to take a moment in here to talk about why we felt it was important and appropriate to set this sunset date.&nbsp; It is important to set a target date to hold ourselves accountable for getting UDL to a good place on a transparent timetable. The remaining bugs are not acceptable. We still have work that needs to get done to make sure we’ve addressed these issues before sunset. Setting this date is about much more than giving users and other partners a heads-up--it also helps us to set the pace for how UDL will progress. We are confident that, within the upcoming 90 days, we can reach that target before we retire LDL. Below is a recap from the&nbsp; blog&nbsp; of issues we are committed to fixing: PAGE REVEAL : This is an old problem that we believed to be fixed, but we have seen reports of it resurfacing. If you’re experiencing this issue, please let us know! We are actively working on an occurrence of this and were able to&nbsp; find and resolve an issue over the weekend thanks to your support . SETTINGS : There are reports of UDL settings not saving. We’ve released a patch that we believe solves this but we will continue to monitor to see if it crops back up. JAGGED&nbsp;LINES : Some usage of UDL can cause jagged lines on the fringes of token vision. We are currently working on an anti-aliasing solution. LAG : We’ve heard you: Lag is the number 1 reason users aren’t converting to UDL. Since UDL started, we’ve put out a number of patches to improve performance; we are actively improving response times with each update. We’re currently testing a solution on our Dev Server that will significantly improve network performance that we will be rolling out in the next couple of weeks. NIGHT&nbsp;VISION : There are parts of Night Vision that still need to be fixed, like Night Vision tokens overlapping and animated tokens having a ghost-like effect on the GM layer. Further, we want to hear about anything else you uncover. Tell us about everything you find and report it here or via our&nbsp; help center .&nbsp; The issues below are also from the blog post, and are actively being worked on: RING/BULLSEYE EFFECT : There is a documented issue where some light sources have a ring/bullseye effect to them. PAGE FREEZING : There have been a handful of reports of UDL freezing games. We’re currently determining the root cause of these freezes. This is the bug we currently need the most information on. If you’ve experienced it, please let us know through our&nbsp; help center . GRID : We’ve received reports of Players and GMs losing sight of the grid when using characters with Night Vision. VISIBILITY : We’ve received reports of Players and GMs losing their sight, or experiencing tokens disappearing after moving specific tokens. We also are keeping a close eye on the issues you’ve mentioned in this thread and we are working to catch and squash any new bugs. Moreover, we know there are other bugs we want to address--this isn’t meant as an exhaustive list, but as an overview of our current focus. We’ve seen some confusion about this announcement with regards to (non-Advanced) Fog of War, and want to reiterate that it will still be around after the LDL “sunset” date. Additionally, we hear you 100% on an option for 5E rules-as-written dark vision and hope to add that as an option sometime soon. Currently we have a system agnostic solution in place, but we’re planning on adding to that. We can’t promise it will be prior to LDL going away, but it’s definitely on our list. We are making sure that we provide a quality experience with UDL. In order to get there, it’s necessary that LDL eventually gets retired, so that resources can be dedicated to fulfilling suggestions and requests that were not possible in the Legacy architecture.
1614042565
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Quick double post! Brox and Basque, thanks for the report! We are gonna keep specific updates to this issue over here: Forum post There was definitely an issue with the queues. The problem should be resolved now, it will just take a few minutes for the queue to be resolved
Drespar said: Hey everyone, It is important to set a target date to hold ourselves accountable for getting UDL to a good place on a transparent timetable.&nbsp; If you need to cause this much pain to your customer base just in order to get your devs to put out a usable product -- not great, not good, just usable -- then something is massively wrong with the way you do things. Functional software companies can achieve this without alienating their customer base.
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I've lost my confidence that Roll20 has its userbases best interest in mind. When I've tried again and again to use this feature for the last year only to hear that the functional legacy version is getting deleted in favor of the buggy, laggy mess that is UDL because "we think we can get it done by then" and "we set a date to hold ourselves accountable" (by holding the paying community hostage over it?? The only thing I have complete confidence in is that UDL will NOT have feature parity and be in a satisfactory state in 90 days), I've decided to drop my Pro subscription after 6,000 hours of good times on the platform. I was really hoping for something that made a lot more sense than what I just read from Drespar, but it's mindboggling to me. I just think my monetary support is better spent behind 'that' other product. You know the one.
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Sewer Crew Gaming
Pro
Marketplace Creator
DSDistorted said: I've lost my confidence that Roll20 has its userbases best interest in mind. When I've tried again and again to use this feature for the last year only to hear that the functional legacy version is getting deleted in favor of the buggy, laggy mess that is UDL because "we think we can get it done by then" and "we set a date to hold ourselves accountable" (by holding the paying community hostage over it?? The only thing I have complete confidence in is that UDL will NOT have feature parity and be in a satisfactory state in 90 days), I've decided to drop my Pro subscription after 6,000 hours of good times on the platform. I was really hoping for something that made a lot more sense than what I just read from Drespar, but it's mindboggling to me. I just think my monetary support is better spent behind 'that' other product. You know the one. It really does feel like the devs are on another planet.
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Ravenknight
KS Backer
Drespar said: It is important to set a target date to hold ourselves accountable for getting UDL to a good place on a transparent timetable...
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ThorN
Plus
Drespar said: SETTINGS : There are reports of UDL settings not saving. We’ve released a patch that we believe solves this but we will continue to monitor to see if it crops back up. Since the patch, settings in drawers which have disappeared or failed to render are still lost when the page is saved if settings are changed and the drawer is gone.&nbsp; Please see the reports on page 3 of this thread for a pictorial recreation of the bug. In addition, the illuminated distance of visible lights for characters with a low light vision multiplier is also still not applied to a light source on the object layer until the corresponding lighted token is moved, and the improvement in range still seems to be lost when the GM's page is refreshed until each source is moved again.
1614069330
Wint
Plus
Just so folks are aware, May 18 is also when the next 5e book comes out. When Drespar says the roll20 team needed to set a date for themselves, they didn't pick that date arbitrarily, nor is it one that they're likely to change.
Wint said: Just so folks are aware, May 18 is also when the next 5e book comes out. When Drespar says the roll20 team needed to set a date for themselves, they didn't pick that date arbitrarily, nor is it one that they're likely to change. Interesting.&nbsp; Drespar- do you want to comment on this?&nbsp; This leads me to believe that you are going to push us to UDL no matter how usable it is.&nbsp; Not that I didn't believe it anyway, but more evidence.&nbsp; &nbsp;Why did you choose that date? Because you wanted to be on a "timetable" to get it working, or because you wanted to be on a timetable to meet the latest release?&nbsp; Thanks in advance.
1614079568
Laurent
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Does that mean that the bug of&nbsp; walls blocking light from the edge instead of center &nbsp;will not be fixed?
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Laurent said: Does that mean that the bug of&nbsp; walls blocking light from the edge instead of center &nbsp;will not be fixed? I first brought up this issue in June 2020 when it was introduced as part of the fix for tokens seeing past DL walls when the token was adjacent to the wall. Someone decided it was important to have the token start its visibility check somewhere other than the center of the token. It was so important that rather than fixing it by having the vision check from the center of the the token as LDL does, how walls block vision was changed instead. I have persistently raised this issue since then, and there has never been a response.
If parity isn't reached, as promised , then not only has this company lied to its paying customers, it is actually cutting content.
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There's a lot of negative posts in here, so I'll post my positives.&nbsp; The UDL has been a lot smoother and faster than the old DL, especially when it comes to Explorer mode. I'm using the Rise of the Runelords module, and it was automatically converted over. I had to tweak a few things, but that's been mostly painless. The performance of UDL has been it's biggest benefit, and I'm hopeful that increased performance means we'll see some other improvements in Roll20 to come. (I still would like to see an animation layer) Only issues I've had is some problems with live viewing updates. Sometimes it will break when I'm changing a bunch of lightning around. But that's only when preplanning a session. There was a time a few months ago where everything go revealed to players, but I haven't had any issues like that for a while now.
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UDL just doesn't work.&nbsp; Tried to use it with brand new "Thrown to the Wolves" from your online store, created as new game and&nbsp; then Game Settings/Convert to UDL UDL can't see anything, with a token, yes has 'Vision' enabled on the 'Updated' UDL tab.&nbsp; Yes I added some lights, including the token itself as well as a separate light token. Struggled with it trying all manner of things for about an hour - can get reveal of map layer in greyscale only. Switched back to LDL and although not ideal, it does at least work exactly as expected. Suggest you throw away UDL and reengineer it from scratch, feels as though you're fighting to save a fundamentally broken piece of software (UDL).&nbsp; Take it as a prototype from which to learn lessons, rather than save code, and move on :)&nbsp; Good luck ! FWIW I tried UDL on Chrome 88 (WIndows 10) and Firefox 85 (same PC).&nbsp; No problems with graphics drivers.&nbsp; HP Envy.