New Exalted 3e Character Sheet Release - Lots of Formatting Issues...

I am ecstatic to see that there is now a new Exalted 3E character sheet that supports Solars/Lunars/Dragon-Blooded. Great! And, the other new features are encouraging. However, the css formatting and layout of the sheet/tabs have a lot of issues, at least on firefox/chrome. It seems like it needs more testing and development before deployment.

For example: text overlaps, checkboxes are misplaced/misaligned, columns/labels don't align (see combat tab), fields are overflowing the sheet width -- like the attribute fields on the Misc tab. The sheet either needs to be wider or taller to accommodate the intended elements. Why is the sheet pinned to 1000ish pixels wide? Also, there is lots of wasted h/v space with the nested border use -- general layout issues. If there are horizontal layout issues, one strategy would be to start by making the sheet wider to accommodate the layout and optimize it later if there is really an immediate need to push out something that doesn't seem quite ready.

I would appreciate it if the Devs/Roll20 could take a careful look at the (many) formatting issues and try to make some quick fixes to help support immediate use in games.

Thanks!

Thanks, Nic - it is definitely better now and I really appreciate the fast response.

Cursory Feedback - Haven't used this sheet very much:

Overall, the default div styles could be better. Using nested borders around everything - it's wasteful/distracting. The wide gutters and borders waste a lot of horizontal space. Text in the drop-downs is barely visible in favor of showing down arrows. Optimally, the standard for abilities should be to show at least 3 letters. STR, DEX, CHA, etc. If the button style is clear, the down-arrow is not really necessary.

The numbers are on the small side vs. wasted vertical space.

The weapon definitions still have some alignment issues for the withering damage field and the column lables are very cramped.

Also, ideally for the character attributes, it would be nice to be able to specify primary, secondary and tertiary vs. a single checkbox (primary only)

But...I greatly appreciate the effort to improve it and hope it will continue!

Hi, I'm really eager to see where this character sheet will lead. But how can I get back the precious character sheet? :/
It seems to me that this sheet was ralease too early, lots of good ideas (the rolling button YES!) but some are not that great ^^'
I didn't find the sheet quite usable, not really readable or ergonomically designed. (for now)

Generally speaking:

The colors are quite off, giving a "blurry" visual sensation. They also artificially reduce the size of the font which appeared too small. (especially for the numbers and the font when at is smallest)
The window of the sheet when first opened don't match the width of the sheet.

Character page:

The disposition of the various elements is off and need to be rearranged.
Why specialties are so far away from the Abilities?
The attributes are suposed to be in three categories which didn't appear. They have to be easily readable. Why not let them on the top arranged horizontally, divided by categories vertically?

Why getting ride of the dots?
The dots are much more readable and visually apprehended than the number. (the number are also way too small)
For bigs values I could comprehend why. But there, they are numbers wich are not supposed to go higher than 5 or 6 (alread maybe 10 for the very few people who played Essence 5+ games)

The up/down arrows are really distracting.
They draw the attention away from the number wich are the information needing it.
The boxes, arrows, buttons in the left part of each attributes and abilities comes out heavy, distracting from the usefull information which are too light and small in comparison.
I proposed to getting ride of the boxes, using bigger numbers or dots.

Concerning the rolling buttons,
For the ablilites, having to submit info four times before rolling is too long in my opinion.
The rolling buttons take so much place and caused not needed distraction.
Why not making the names of the attributes and abilities the buttons

Charms page:

Great idea to have the possibility to divide them by source of the relevants charms.
But, it seems imposible to add an other "divider" wich is strange.
Apart from that, a thing that will greatly help the ergonomy of the sheet and the user experience:
Being able to open/close and rearranged the position of them.

When fill in the "description" part for a charm, two typing space can be seen. But no indication on which one is for what.

The in-chat card:
Clean, but the text needs to be justified in it.
The informations from the second typing space didn't appear I presime because it's where you are supposed to enter the aesthetic/descriptif part of the charm?
The nature or "the what to" is linked the charm didn't show either. Why not put somewhere on display the: "Melee", "Presence", "Martial Art: Tiger Style", "Sorcery: Terrestrial Circle" etc ?

It's getting late for me, I will resume my feedback tomorow.
Sorry if this was not the right topic to post my message and for my poor english.
Despite my harsh critics on the character sheet I greatly appreciate the effort and the desire to improve it. I know the work that it represent and don't ever want to undermine it.
Keep up the good work and, I will be back...

Hi, I guess this is the thread to talk about the issues with the new 3e Exalted character sheet? Found some bugs while trying to fix my sheet due to the changes. Couldn't find a way to post them with the repo, so I'll list them here:

- Both the buttons for rolling 'withering damage' for melee weapons and rolling added quick pools on the Misc page throw errors when pressed. For the withering damage it looks like it's using the wrong name for the overwhelming attribute ('weapon-overwhelm') from the selected weapon. Similarly, additional quick action pools and quick attack/damage pools are looking for a 'repactiondice' and 'repattackdice'/'repattackdamage' when clicked. The default quick pools on that page work as intended.

- The Limit Break dots do not change when clicked. Couldn't figure out what's causing this, given that they're programmed the same as the Essence dots and those work fine. Might be something in the limit break's related script that doesn't match up?

- This issue is unique to me so far, no one else I know is experiencing it. As seen below, the health tracker does not show the health penalty values. When I click the boxes to open the drop down, the values are correct. I cannot see them, but others looking at my sheet can. I thought this might be due to my monitor's resolution, but lowering the resolution does not change health tracker, even when refreshing the page.

Hope these things can be addressed, along with the other formatting issues listed in this thread like the text size for the numbers and whatnot. Would love it if Initiative could be tracked on the Combat page, and plug that value directly into Decisive damage rolls. On the whole I like the changes, and want to see this sheet become better than the last one!

Hi everyone,

I'm the person that's been working on the new character sheet. I've made some changes to the sheet based on your feedback that should hopefully address some of the issues with the sheet.

I'll go ahead and copy the list of changes from my pull request 

-Made the sheet about 10% thinner horizontally.

-Made various numbers and text on the sheet larger to improve readability.

-Created visual breaks to make the three attribute sets look more grouped together.

-Added placeholder text to charm descriptions to describe which parts will be included in the chat when the charms are pinged.

-Fixed the Limit Break dots so they function properly.

-Moved the Specialties section to be closer to the Abilities section.

-Removed the up/down arrows from text and select elements to allow for better readability/size of their contents.

-Fixed the withering damage rolls in the combat section and quick pools section.

-Reduced the number of pop-up prompts when performing dice rolls.

-Removed some unnecessary borders from the Misc. Section.

There are some other improvements that I am planning to work on in the future as well. Mainly tracking wound penalties so they can be automatically included in dice rolls, and tracking initiative on the combat tab(not sure how possible this one is, but it sounds really cool so I'm definitely going to give it a try).

Please let me know if you find any other issues with the sheet or have other general feedback about it

Hi Joseph, myself and several of my players are still seeing the up/down arrows overlapping the values like below and we use the Firefox browser, any idea why?

I was doing some rolls on the combat tab and it appears that the Join Battle roll is not counting 10's as double successes as well? I am checking some other rolls to see if that is also occurring.

This was a huge surprise when I went to check the server after a hiatus in my game!

I think one thing I'm really missing from the old one is how legible the dots were for Attributes and Abilities, is there any way we could get that back or make it an option?

I also miss the ability to modify mote pool totals on the back end. If someone is playing a homebrew or Exigent character, they could use that to get the right mote pools for their character. Before, you could select a type of Exalted and it would automatically adjust it, but you could also then tweak those formula. Is there any way that could return as a Misc feature?

I'm also noticing my intimacies are getting cut off by the size of the text entry, and that bums me out, I loved how legible they were on the old sheet. Is there any way that they could be the full page length again to ensure that principles don't get cut off too easily?

Lastly, the 1-10 bar defining your Limit before you Limit Break is called the Limit Track, so I think it makes more sense for that label to be Limit instead of just Break.

Sorry, this is just some feedback after being surprised by this! Thank you for trying to update the sheet!

Also to be clear about the dots thing, I like to be able to roll and think those changes are totally functional, but that it would be really nice if there could be some way to also have the dots there as a visual reference, so that's where I'm coming from! It helps a lot at a glimpse versus scanning over numbers that I can't current see because the arrows are still covering them.

Hi again everyone,

I've created a pull request with some more changes to the sheet, so those changes should appear sometime in the next few days (assuming I didn't mess something up).

I mostly focused on making changes to how the sheets look on firefox, as I hadn't realized how much different/worse they looked on there. I've also added a small area in the misc tab for changing the maximum mote pools for characters, so any positive/negative number put in those fields will apply to the respective essence pool maximum. Intimacies have also been changed from single line text boxes to text areas with adjustable heights, so intimacy descriptions shouldn't be getting cut off anymore. 

As for having dots for abilities and attributes back, that's something that I think I could make work in the future. I didn't really think about it before, but the way I've made the sheet should allow me to make a toggle that would let people swap between a layout with numbers and one with dots. That said, I'll probably need a decent amount of time before something like that is done, as it involves some css tricks that I haven't used much before. Hopefully the changes I've made to how the numbers look will be good enough for at-a-glance readability for the moment.

In regards to the rolls on the sheet not counting 10s as double successes, that's also something that I could theoretically make work at some point, but is also going to take a bit of time. As far as I know, roll20's dice mechanics don't allow for certain numbers to be counted as double successes, so i think I'd have to make the rolls work based on a roll-able table. The main thing that held me back on doing this when I was creating the sheet is the number of ways exalted lets you change up die rolls. Between doubling certain numbers, rerolling 1s, rerolling non-successes starting with 6s and moving down, etc., I wasn't really sure how many of those mechanics I would want to include/ how much time it would take me/ what was actually wanted.

Now that the sheet is functional I do agree this is something that would be a pretty big improvement. I think at least getting the double successes on 10s-7s as a roll prompt/global toggle is something that I can definitely get working in the near future. The other functions might also end up being pretty easy to add once I get the double successes working, but I'm not entirely sure.

Anyways, that's all I've got for now. Once again, all the feedback is really appreciated, so don't hesitate if you have any issues or suggestions in regards to the sheet. 

(Also I'm not sure if I should be posting these "status updates" here or not. I suppose until I know the answer to that, and as long as there's discussion about the sheet here, I'll keep putting them here.)

Thanks Joseph! Once the changes for Firefox are moved it I will go more in depth reviewing the sheet because I will be able to read the numbers then :)

For the double successes that is a challenge with Roll20's current dice system. I ended up getting a pro membership so I could add EX3Dice API because it handles all the double success options that charms bring, re-rolling dice until certain numbers disappear, etc. I am not sure what license that code is offered or if it can even be integrated into a character sheet but the logic might be helpful.

Also for when we click the roll button, any chance we can get the roll description included in the results/chat window? like when you click Join Battle, have it say "Character X rolling Join Battle: (dice information)" or something like that. For the person that clicks the roll button I imagine they know what the roll is for but as the Storyteller I often have to ask the player what their roll is for. I have probably gotten too used to D&D where it tells everyone what the roll is for.

lastly as a wish list item for the future, on the combat tab can we have a section where the users can add specific attacks that integrate charm information? Call it signature moves or something, but my players tend to use the same set of charms for attacks that modify the roll like double 8s, re-roll 4s until they disappear, etc. What I am envisioning a bunch of drop downs where you could chose that information and then save it as a named roll.

Thank you so much, Joseph! I really appreciate your responsiveness and your efforts!

The new sheet does not scale, leaving columns extremely narrow and hard to read.  Am I reading this right that hard coding column widths was an intentional choice that was merged after the redesign?  https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/9669

Our group would also vastly prefer dots to numbers even after the FF fixes are in.

The excess intimacies that got inserted on import are not able to be deleted.

Defenses are missing any values after import.

Hi Jill, 

The hardcoded width of the sheet has been present from the beginning of my version. The 10% width-reduction mentioned in the pull request you linked is from the cutting out/down of unnecessary fields in the abilities section and horizontal blank space. I have noticed that the fields for specialty and merit names are a bit narrow, so ill remove the "Merit:" and "Specialty:" text that appear on each line in those sections to give more room for the text boxes. If you have noticed any other specific areas where there are issues with text being cut off or not readable, please let me know.

I appreciate the additional vote on including dots as an option, as I said in my last post ill be working on adding a toggle to swap between the current layout and a dot-based layout, but I don't have a specific ETA on that yet.

The intimacies section is a design mistake on my part. I created the section with 4 hard-coded intimacies followed by a repeating section, whereas the original sheet had just a repeating section, with the default 4 generated from a sheet worker. Unfortunately I don't think ill be able to change mine to be in line with the original at this point, as people who have put info in those top 4 intimacies would lose that info (or have to dig through the Attributes & Abilities section to find them). I understand this makes organization of intimacies a bit harder, as the first 4 cannot be quickly rearranged or deleted, but I hope leaving it as-is isn't too much of an inconvenience. 

I did originally intend to leave the defense boxes as inputs rather than auto-calcs, hence why those values didn't import from the old sheet, but I do see the merit in having one box for each defense auto-calculate the basic value for that defense based on character attributes, so I'll include that in my next set of updates to the sheet. The reason I didn't originally have defenses auto-calculate is because of how frequently those values change based on things that the character sheets cannot track without manual input anyway (such as onslaught penalties and charm bonuses).

As a side note for everyone, alongside the couple of things I've already mentioned here, another thing that I'll be including in my next set of updates is the return of auto-calculating wound penalties. It's something I neglected to bring over from the original sheet until now, but it should be a valuable addition to the current sheet. I plan to have the wound penalty automatically subtract from rolls to cut down on the things players/storytellers need to keep track of. I'll also include a box in the misc. tab for "wound-penalty reduction" that will negate an amount of wound penalties based on the input, as I know there are charms that reduce/remove wound penalties when active.

My group just recently decided to move back to Exalted 3 after a long absence, and seeing the Roll20 sheet being updated around the same time was a happy coincidence. Happy to see good folk contribute to the community.

I came here to report the Firefox bug with the number fields, but that seems to be pretty known already. Finding the issue gave me a crash course in CSS which was quite fun!

Looking at the Intimacies thing, I would suggest making the change even if it would break some sheets. Leaving it as is seems like the sort of solution that will cost a lot of frustration down the line from both a user and developer standpoint. Just my two cents, and might be better to do it before the new sheet takes on too many adopters. You know the code better than me though.

Here's a macro I use for double 10s, which I found somewhere on the internet way back (can't recall where, sadly) 

/r ?{die pool}d10>?{double|Tens,10|Nines,9|Eights,8|Sevens,7|None,11}f<6s+?{die pool}+?{automatic successes|0}

Hi Joseph,

I really appreciate how the damage stuff all works! For Quick Pools, would it be possible to allow the Damage button to query for and subtract soak, like the ones in the regular combat page? NPCs and PCs both have to contend with it, so it'd be a nice QOL thing to save people from having to do the math.

Thanks for all the hard work on the changes! I will definitely check them out! Happy Holidays!

Hi Joseph,

I saw Dot Layout is in now, awesome! I hate to seem ungrateful, but would it be possible to make the maximum amount of dots 5 on each line, to conform to the format of the typical White Wolf sheet? In Ex3 you never have more than 5/5 in either Attributes or Abilities without them coming from a temporary mechanical effect. Since the point of the dot layout's inclusion is to capture the feel of those regular sheets and how they visualize things, would it be possible to limit the number of dots on each to 5 rather than 10? Or at the very least, to do that to Abilities?

Thank you again, it's really kind of you to implement this feature! (Regular Exalted 3e sheet included for context)

Hi everyone,
I love this sheet, but my GM asked for subsheets for simplified NPCs and Battle Groups. Does anyone working on this?

Hey everyone, I've been pretty busy recently so I haven't had much time to work on the sheet, but I did adjust the dot layout to only have 5 dots per attribute/ability, as well as added the soak prompt for the quick damage pools. 

As for NPC/Battle group subsheets, the Misc tab of the character sheet does have a small section for recording battle group statistics, as well as the quick pool section for an NPC's/battle group's important die pools. I might try expanding the battle-group section in the future to have some functionality itself rather than just being a stat-recording section, but hopefully the current version is good enough for the time being. 

After playing with my own group a bit more I think the idea that was mentioned for a sort-of "signature move" section on the combat tab is something I really want to make when I have some time. Sometimes remembering big charm combos can be a bit too much so the section would probably have sub-sections for total attack/damage bonus dice, a static toggle for which numbers grant double successes, a place to mark down total essence/willpower cost, and a text-box for writing other information like which dice get rerolled etc. Any ideas for other things to include in this section or suggestions for the sheet in general are welcome as always.

Hi, me again,

First of all, the sheet is so much better since the last time I checked so I will start by thanking you for your hard work on this one.

I'm here for asking about a "change" in the Charms page. My players begin to have a great number of charms from lots of differents sources and things start to get messy.
I'd like to know if it is possible to have a button to fold/unfold each "Ability/Attribute/Sorcery/Martial Art/Artifact" section, having a way to add some more of them and moved them. Just like it's doable for the Charms within each 'section'.
And may be a box somewhere on each charm to put the page number and sourcebook of it.

Also I don't like the way dice in dice rolls are sort in order. As they are I'm unable to used them in my game. Since when you wish to substract let's say the soak of an ennemy after the roll you can't know which dice are the 'last ones' of them to not counting them. I don't if it very clear sorry.
Yes I could just tell my player before their rolls how much dice they need to substract, but I don't like giving to them the soak capacity of an ennemy for keeping tension up and avoiding metagaming even inadvertently.

Hiding soak from players isn't something intended to be a thing in the system (it obviously wouldn't work in pen&paper), so I don't think making it part of the sheet is very necessary. You could, as a solution, ask your player for raw damage and roll it hidden. Which would actually work better anyway, since players who care could pretty easily count how many dice you're subtracting based on the successes they lose to soak.

I do it on pen&paper pretty easily (I decide for instance to not count X dice from one side and if 'tie' between dice I pick the more top ones). Yes they can try to deduce the number but unless they have only successes in the dice that I substract they can't really know the exact number. And even so, it is something that I know some of my player like to do, trying to deduce the soak number, keeping them engage and thinking.
I could throw the dice for them, but that maybe a little too extreme for some players, which I understand.

But yeah, not necessary, I have already maccros to replace those of the sheet, it is just a mere suggestion. And if I really want I guess I can edit the sheet and remove the 's' in the roll calls.

Hey!! First off, thank you for all the love and effort you've put into this sheet; i dunno if you're interested in accepting help but as i use this thing all the time as well I'd be happy to help contribute. 

Second: On the Charms page, there are a total of 10 "sections" that you can add charms into (the Ability/Attribute/Sorcery/MA/Artifact headers). Some of my players (and NPCs) have more than 10 abilities with charms - could you add an Add/Remove button for categories in a similar fashion to the button in each subcategory?