Turn order bug?

Not sure if this is a bug but... In my game, I had a situation where a creature had cast Hallucinatory Terrain to make the map look like something it wasn't. To implement this, I had two map pages - one for the hallucinatory terrain, and another for the real terrain. The players started out on the one map, and when they realized it was a hallucination, I just copied and pasted them all, in their current positions, onto the real terrain map. This worked fine. The part that didn't work was the Turn Order. On the new map, the players could no longer see anything in the turn order box. It was blank for them. I could see everything, but they couldn't. I tried resorting the items, had them close and re-open the box, but nothing seemed to make it work. I thought that the Turn Order box was independent of the page? In fact, I thought that you could have a split party, with players on multiple pages using the same turn order. But, no matter what we did, the turn order was blank for them.  We got past it... they didn't need to see the turn order, really, so it was just an annoyance. But, it still seems like a bug to me. Has anyone else experienced this? Have you been able to resolve it? (Not sure if this is relevant but this was a 5e game... but Turn Order should work the same way, no matter the game system.) Thx.

Hi Saul! This behavior is expected and comes from two factors: The Turn Tracker is token-based, not character based. This is so multiple goblins that share a sheet can all have independent turn orders if the GM desires. Every time you paste a token onto a page, regardless of whether it is the same or a different page, it gets a new token id. New token id requires a new initiative entry. GMs see all token turns across all pages. Players see only turn orders for whatever page they are on. This is to (among other reasons) protect "double blind" setups, where players may be unaware of what is happening elsewhere.

The Turn Tracker only shows things to the players from the page the players are on. This is not a bug.&nbsp; From&nbsp; <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Turn_Tracker#Turn_Tracker_on_Multiple_Pages" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Turn_Tracker#Turn_Tracker_on_Multiple_Pages</a> &nbsp; " t &nbsp; Turn Tracker &nbsp;can track tokens from any combination of pages, and there’s no need to close it when switching between pages. The&nbsp; GM &nbsp;sees all items in the list, but&nbsp; players &nbsp;will only see the items that are located on their current page." My suggestion is to recreate the turn order from the new map, then delete the old turn order.&nbsp; And ninja'd :)

If you ever need to pull that hallucinatory terrain (or similar) trick on the players again, try making the map a Multi-Sided&nbsp;token . That way you can change the map while everyone stays on the same page.

I thought about that but I had to do it on the fly when the creature "decided" to cast Hallucinatory Terrain . If I'd thought about it earlier in the day, and knew that I was going to cast that no matter what, I could have prepared it. Rick A. said: If you ever need to pull that hallucinatory terrain (or similar) trick on the players again, try making the map a Multi-Sided&nbsp;token . That way you can change the map while everyone stays on the same page.

Well, it's kind of a pain to do that but I suppose I could. Gauss said: The Turn Tracker only shows things to the players from the page the players are on. This is not a bug.&nbsp; From&nbsp; <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Turn_Tracker#Turn_Tracker_on_Multiple_Pages" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Turn_Tracker#Turn_Tracker_on_Multiple_Pages</a> &nbsp; " t &nbsp; Turn Tracker &nbsp;can track tokens from any combination of pages, and there’s no need to close it when switching between pages. The&nbsp; GM &nbsp;sees all items in the list, but&nbsp; players &nbsp;will only see the items that are located on their current page." My suggestion is to recreate the turn order from the new map, then delete the old turn order.&nbsp; And ninja'd :)

So you're saying that even though the tokens were copied from the other page, and kept things like HP, light, and other things associated with the token, that a new token id was created? Well, that's a bit of a bummer. ;-) From a programming perspective though, that kind of makes sense. keithcurtis said: Hi Saul! This behavior is expected and comes from two factors: The Turn Tracker is token-based, not character based. This is so multiple goblins that share a sheet can all have independent turn orders if the GM desires. Every time you paste a token onto a page, regardless of whether it is the same or a different page, it gets a new token id. New token id requires a new initiative entry. GMs see all token turns across all pages. Players see only turn orders for whatever page they are on. This is to (among other reasons) protect "double blind" setups, where players may be unaware of what is happening elsewhere.

Yeah, every object in Roll20 has a unique ID (with the exception of one bug from either the Transmogrifier or the character vault—I can't remember which). And you are right, from a programming POV, that's pretty necessary. It's one of those things that you tend not to think about once it has been internalized, though.

The charactervault gives an imported character a new ID, you can import the same character multiple times. The transmogrifier retains the IDs the original game for most objects (character, handouts, decks, tokens), but not for pages. So you can import the same page multiple times, but all tokens on both pages have the same IDs. Adding a Game Addon to a game also (AFAIK) always yields the same IDs for objects (hence updates can be executed later).

Thanks! It's not an issue I've had to deal with in the past, so I have trouble remembering.