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[13th Age Legacy] Sheet / CSS broken after PR from Seraaron

1600197218
neovatar
Sheet Author
I'm the original author of the "13th Age Legacy Sheet". A PR from another contributor (with no Roll20 pro account, so PR was not preflight tested as custom sheet) was merged nor has the author of the PR contacted me beforehand. The PR broke CSS and restructured parts of the sheet. If you find that the legacy sheet is broken for you, please redirect bug fix requests to Roll20 user <a href="https://app.roll20.net/users/147454/seraaron" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/users/147454/seraaron</a> I will send a PR to remove my contact information from the sheet.
1600197518
neovatar
Sheet Author
As a workaround, if you have the pro account you can use the old HTML and CSS from my github repo:&nbsp;<a href="https://github.com/neovatar/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/13th_Age-neovatar" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/neovatar/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/13th_Age-neovatar</a>
1600198223
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
If its broken the sheet, I'd suggest raising the issue with roll20 and asking them to roll it back.
1600198735

Edited 1600198989
Alright, for posterity here's a list of some issues with the new update I personally had as a user of this sheet for my games; Bugs! Title and Size reference the same value on the PC sheet. Max HP no longer shows on the sheet. Culture &amp; Ancestry / Unique Things both reference the same list. There's a second 'add' button below various lists, if you use that one it adds something to all similar lists. Including lists on both PC/NPC sheets. Resources references the one unique thing, for some reason. The update ate ALL of my player's inventories. The rating and tier text boxes for Resistances and Immunities reference the same thing. 'Moral Saves' - which i'm not even sure what they are - don't even work / fails to roll. Class overview also references the One Unique Thing. Once you've added a Resistance/Immunity entry to an NPC sheet, you cannot delete it. Once you've added a Vulnerability entry to an NPC sheet, you cannot delete it. There's also a few other things which are less bugs and more just questionable to me, most of which strike me as homebrew additions; Other Weirdness Alignment isn't really in 13th Age by base, part of what I actually like about the system. Culture &amp; Ancestry should really be an option toggled in settings since it's homebrew. New drop-down lists for usage entries are obstructive to addition of custom content. General mis-usage of terminology such as 'Encounter' being used rather than 'Battle' in power usages. Incremental advances, an optional system, has been pushed to the middle of the sheet's real estate space. There's a check box next to the Icon Rolls, I have no idea why it exists?... Feats were moved to 'Setup' for some reason, which feels odd because not all feats are addative to the power they are connected to and would better suit an entry of their own. Overall it strikes me as an oddity to have something which should be on the 'Character Sheet' be anywhere but the character sheet it'self. Apparently this update was done by a free user by the name of Serarron, honestly it feels like many of these things were added for the sake of his own personal homebrew; which I feel would be more suited to a Pro user's needs (ie. Custom Sheet). It feels like this guy has somewhat hijacked the sheet for his own purposes, so he doesn't need to buy a Pro Account... Perhaps a harsh claim, though the sudden unsolicited and badly implemented update has left me a bit salty on this end.
1600199345

Edited 1600199727
neovatar
Sheet Author
For all sheet users: Sorry for the mess. This is clearly Roll20s fault for merging the untested PR. I sent a support ticket and requested to rollback the PR. Once it is done, I will cease support of the sheet. If someone wants to take over, please step up.
1600200081

Edited 1600200130
I could, I've been coding custom sheets on and off over the past couple years and have a background in coding. I can make an account on github if need be in order to do so. Let me know if there's any hoops I need to go through for this.
1600200340
neovatar
Sheet Author
Thanks, I'll contact you once the PR has been reverted! You would need a github account to create pull requests for changes of the sheet.
1600203632

Edited 1600204292
ᐰndreas J.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Translator
neovatar said: [...] A PR from another contributor (with no Roll20 pro account, so PR was not preflight tested as custom sheet) was merged nor has the author of the PR contacted me beforehand. The PR broke CSS and restructured parts of the sheet. And just a reminder for everyone, changes submitted to GitHub must be tested, it's mentioned in the GitHub Readme: Improving Existing Character Sheets If you want to help improve an existing sheet, just clone this repository. Make your changes, test them in app using the Custom accessible with a Roll20 Pro account, and submit a pull request. Considering the amount of submissions each week, Roll20&nbsp; doesn't seem to test any of the changes, and relies on people actually checking themselves. Communicating with other authors, and having other people test your changes if you do anything bigger is the right thing to do. I have managed over my +100 PRs to let through larger mistakes on occasion, and I'm pretty sure each time was due to having been the only one testing it, and the changes been many.
1600204606
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
Hello everyone sorry for causing such a ruckus! I just wanted to help add a few new features to the sheet for extra customizability / personalisation for players and GMs who use homebrew rules a lot, like myself. I have read your feedback and I'm working on fixes already. I realize there were one or two things I added that were a step over that line, so I will revert those. As I understand it, the roll20 character sheets are creative commons, so anyone can contribute. I was trying to follow the roll 20 wiki as best as I could, but this is my first time doing this. This was not a malicious attempt to ruin your day though. I'm very sorry! If all of these changes are completely hated and unwanted then you can roll-back the merge completely and I am very sorry for disturbing you all. I am currently trying to work on fixes though to the most major issues, such as the broken css.
1600204738
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
If needed, I will get a pro account to sort this mess properly. I take full responsibility. But if you'll let me have another chance, I'll fix this and make the sheet better than ever
1600205536

Edited 1600206187
neovatar
Sheet Author
While I appreciate you working on the sheet, please always bear in mind that many people are using the sheet and if you change things, all those people have to live with the changes. That is why sheets with a lots of users (like the pathfinder sheet) use threads on the forum to discuss further development and changes of the sheet. I suggest the following: * please do not submit further changes, let Roll20 staff rollback the PR (I opened a ticket) * I transfer maintainership to Fanne R. * You discuss your changes with the maintainer and preferably also users of the sheet, create thread/vote for feature requests maybe offer a "beta" as custom sheet before letting Roll20 it merge back into master I would also advise you to get a Roll20 pro account so that you can actually really test your changes as a custom sheet. If you want to restructure the existing sheet more heavily, open a thread in the forum, ask users for feedback and opinions on your changes and try to avoid breaking changes.
1600206635
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
I tried to account for as many ways to not add breaking changes as possible, such as moving the Feats to 'setup' so that pre-exiting users could move their stuff back to the main sheet for the newly accounted Feats sections beneath each power. The one mistake I made that broke inventories was fixing what I thought was a typo, but it was a title. However, by reverting that typo back to what it was I think those should also be fine. I'm happy to take on this project if you don't want it anymore. I'm a competent mathematician and coder, I was just clumsy with this first time working on a 'public scale', and again I'm very sorry, but I want to make this right
1600207476

Edited 1600207750
Sorry if I came off as a little rude Seraaron. The changes jumped me out of nowhere and honestly got a little stressed. I appreciate your wishes to contribute to the community, since 13th Age isn't the biggest system community wise. Though my suggestion would be to take this code and submit it as a seperate sheet since your version makes such sweeping overhauls. I don't think there would neccisarily be any major issues regarding putting out your own sheet based off neovatar's considering he wants to hand off control of the project but I know there's a few of us out here who're quite fond of the old legacy sheet.
1600207946
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
Here's a screenshot of how the hotfix looks right now on my testbed <a href="https://gyazo.com/bbf472ee64bc16ad4e12b1827f68824d" rel="nofollow">https://gyazo.com/bbf472ee64bc16ad4e12b1827f68824d</a> just to prove to you that this is all in good faith (I'm still working on fixing the CSS)
1600213258
Had a chat with Seraaron, we'll be working together on the upcoming update and likely will for any moving forward. If you have questions, feel free to message here, or PM me or Seraaron and we'll get to your message as soon as we are able. You can also raise concerns here as well.
1600213531
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
I had a lovely chat with Fanne, and I now have a pro account, and I've been testing the hotfix properly. Most everything is working as it should be again, but I need to go to bed. @neovatar, do you still want to rollback or can Fanne and I go ahead with a new pull request to clean this up quickly and avoid further confusion for both new and current users? Thanks everyone for your patience!
1600215599
I know I want the rollback! I've got sessions to worry about running!
1600237960

Edited 1600238213
neovatar
Sheet Author
I still have a ticket open for the rollback, but no reaction besides the autoreply, I'm ok if you move forward, as long as you listen to the users like Dio G. and come up with a plan how to move forward without stomping on their established campaigns (like configure options to hide your homebrew fields). I will continue to host+bugfix the established version of the sheet on my personal github account for ppl who want to stay with the old version. But this is REALLY, REALLY important to me: PLEASE-PLEASE-PLEASE remove me as sheet maintainer ASAP in the documentation. This includes the following: All references and image links to my github repo/issue tracker. The reference to my Roll20 user id as sheet maintainer in sheet.json. My name and homepage link from package.json. Any links to my Roll20 user id in the wiki pages for the "13th Age Legacy" sheet. I'm still dealing with the user feedback fallout of your changes. I am still getting mails/Roll20 personal messages from sheet users complaining about "my" changes, demanding a rollback.
1600246718
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
Very well, after further discussion with Fanne and seeing that you are very hurt by this, I'll make my changes into a completely new sheet. All of this only happened in the first place because I'm playing 13th Age Glorantha and I wanted to make your sheet more accomodating to other styles of play and variant rules, so that anyone can use and enjoy the features of all. I'll take your sheet and transform it into a separate 'Glorantha' sheet, and Fanne will take over as the maintainer of the 'Legacy' sheet. I'll make sure you're removed from contact info too, neovatar, in both versions; so you hopefully won't be distrubed again after the roll-back. In the meantime, please re-direct any other users who came to you back to this thread.
Hi, Timeline on this rollback? Has ruined our planned session tonight? Thanks.
1600278089

Edited 1600278159
Any chance you can just undo all your changes, as this has interupted our game. It's great that you want to add to the feature set, but without proper testing, it can lead to events such as this. Please, reset this and work on a version that is not live.
1600278092
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
I'm not entirely sure, I can't actually see the roll-back request on the Git Hub page. So it might be an internal ticket? But at least a day probably, or at most a week, unfortunately.
How do I make a rollback request?
1600278393
Honestly how did it take you further discussion and several inquiries to rollback to realize people dont actually want you to just doctor around a perfectly fine sheet. How did you get access to do that in the first place?? Next time please play around with a new sheet and not one a lot of people actually use.
1600278820
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
There is already one that neovatar put in, I think. But I cannot see it, and we should not spam the roll20 team. I would like to mention though that, apart from the broken inventories, the sheet is still functional . All the macros work, and the feats are in the 'setup' tab so they aren't lost. It's just looks messy because the CSS is pointing to the wrong file location for the background images, and because several of the values all have the same title value (do not delete them though because then you will probably lose your inventories permanently even after the rollback)! It might be awkward to use at the moment, but depending on what your session plan was you may still be able to enjoy a night of play.
1600278955

Edited 1600278995
Max said: Honestly how did it take you further discussion and several inquiries to rollback to realize people dont actually want you to just doctor around a perfectly fine sheet. How did you get access to do that in the first place?? Next time please play around with a new sheet and not one a lot of people actually use. Exactly, feel free to update a sheet but breaking it for everyone so you can add 25 rows of languages seems kind of insane? Seraaron said: There is already one that neovatar put in, I think. But I cannot see it, and we should not spam the roll20 team. I would like to mention though that, apart from the broken inventories, the sheet is still functional . All the macros work, and the feats are in the 'setup' tab so they aren't lost. It's just looks messy because the CSS is pointing to the wrong file location for the background images, and because several of the values all have the same title value (do not delete them though because then you will probably lose your inventories permanently even after the rollback)! It might be awkward to use at the moment, but depending on what your session plan was you may still be able to enjoy a night of play. "Apart from a core part of the game involving literally everything you've picked up over years, it's fine."
1600279026
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
I can only apologise Max, and learn from my mistake. I'm very sorry
1600279104
ᐰndreas J.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Translator
Roll20 updates sheet only once a week, so a fix would go live next Tuesday.
📜🗡Andreas J.🏹📜 said: Roll20 updates sheet only once a week, so a fix would go live next Tuesday. Thanks!
1600280191
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
Seraaron said: (do not delete them though because then you will probably lose your inventories permanently even after the rollback)! Actually I can test this, now that I'm a pro user
1600280597

Edited 1600280615
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
Okay, so yes unfortunately my suspicion was right. I was hoping that the the typo I fixed in the repeating values would actually save your items in this instance, but the typo was not uniform. So let me please repeat the above more clearly to hopefully avoid further damage: YOUR ITEMS ARE MISSING, BUT SAFE, SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT DELETE THE REPEATING VALUES BENEATH EVERY POWER
1600281746
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
Seraaron said: YOUR ITEMS ARE MISSING, BUT SAFE, SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT DELETE THE REPEATING VALUES BENEATH EVERY POWER To more thoroughly explain why the above bug happened: I wanted to add repeating values beneath each main section, for extra feats and notes and the like, so they can be usefully consolidated beneath where they'd be most easily read (for example, to explain how druid companions work or something without needing to paste that into a macro every time). My error here was copy-pasting the code from inventory to do this, and forgetting to change the class="repeating_item" to be unique name for each. So those long lists you see of "25 rows of languages", in Jasper's case, are actually your items, SO DO NOT DELETE THEM PLEASE. But they are not readable because the typo I fixed was the "title=repeating_itemp". When I tested this on a local testbed, the error was not noticed. I wrongly assumed that my testbed and the roll20 environment would work identically, but they do not. So although I thought I had followed all the proper procedures, but I missed this crucial step. And then I jumped the gun, by submitting the pull request directly to roll20 instead of to neovatar. Perhaps roll20 should put something in place to prevent this? I do not know, that is not my charge. Once again, I can only apologize profusely to everyone who's games will be distrupted by my negligence this week, and promise to do better for the future!
1600285807
All well and good, though you've been very aggressive about pushing what you want for the sheet Seraaron. Presently you've insisted that you'll be able to make the sheets better but you've done little research as to what people want in order to make the sheet better nor what they actually like about the existing properties of the sheet. Pushing your own vision is fine on something you can call your own, though the Legacy sheet is something which has been used by the community for quite some time. If anything this makes your claims till now that you'll 'improve it' come off as more self-serving than reassuring. You have enthusiasm, which means you can give allot. However the fact you're fixated on editing this sheet rather than making a new option for people personally disconcerts me. I think your changes would be far better as a seperate sheet as they involve sweeping overhauls, a sentiment which has been echoed by users such as Max whom seems quite happy with the current sheet. The sheet has 'Legacy' in the name, if anything that should be a tell of 'this mostly exists in a state which will not to be changed'. Pushing your vision on people can lead to quite a backlash from communities, a good example which comes to mind if the whole incident of the 'Helms Deep Reborn' map mod which was for Left 4 Dead 2. A map which was popular for LFD1 was ported to the sequel without permission of the original creator, then used to edit how the actual game worked and inject code into other people's servers once it was sufficiently in use. I don't see things going quite so crazily as things went with that, but it has a similar energy with you taking something popular and using it as a vessel to push your own ideals onto others. Though it might be worth checking explanation videos on youtube to see what i'm referencing here for context. Since you have a Pro account now, there is literally nothing stopping you from proving yourself on your own terms; and doing so will infact remove you from any potential future drama which is liable to occur due to resentments regarding this issue. The community at large relies on being able to trust the sheets which are available to them from week to week, you have damaged that trust. Trying to push aside those concerns with platitudes shows as insincerity, though you can work past it by making something in your own space and letting us judge it for it's merit on it's own terms.
1600289880
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
Dio G. said: However the fact you're fixated on editing this sheet rather than making a new option for people personally disconcerts me. I think your changes would be far better as a seperate sheet as they involve sweeping overhauls, a sentiment which has been echoed by users such as Max whom seems quite happy with the current sheet. The sheet has 'Legacy' in the name, if anything that should be a tell of 'this mostly exists in a state which will not to be changed'. I'm not able to find it at the moment, but I am fairly sure that there was a rule change at one point in the last year or 2 that disallowed more than one community sheet per game/edition.&nbsp; An alternative sheet submitted for the same game system might not be accepted.&nbsp; Just thought I would throw that out there so that people aren't totally set on a course of action that might not be possible.
1600290122
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Kraynic said: I'm not able to find it at the moment, but I am fairly sure that there was a rule change at one point in the last year or 2 that disallowed more than one community sheet per game/edition.&nbsp; An alternative sheet submitted for the same game system might not be accepted.&nbsp; Just thought I would throw that out there so that people aren't totally set on a course of action that might not be possible. That was a hard rule for a long time, but they relaxed it a while ago. They are willing to allow extra sheets for a game, but I don't know what the criteria for permission is.
1600290803
Finderski
Pro
Sheet Author
Compendium Curator
And as a reminder, sheet authors are hard to come by, especially ones willing to make sheets (or updates to sheets) that broaden the potential user base of a particular game. &nbsp;Did Seraaron screw up? Sure. Have they apologized? Yeah, multiple times. Are they trying to fix the issue in a way that pleases everyone? Yep. Are games messed up for the week? Possibly/Probably, but they are only games. Here's a person who wants to help the community grow. They've learned their lesson; let's cut 'em some slack now and stop raking them over the coals. Many sheet authors (myself included) have all made game-breaking mistakes/updates. But if we accept their apologies and encourage (rather than condemn) them, they often times end up doing more sheets for other systems that are underserved. &nbsp;If we keep condemning, we may lose a valuable and rare resource that many people wish for... And I feel for you neoavatar, too...they are having to deal with more fallout than a potential lost week of a game. For those missing out on a game this week, though, may be a good time to try a different game...?
1600291040
To confirm, the sheet revert seems to have gone through at this point.
1600291422
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Yes, we might all make mistakes, and might break a sheet by accident, but there's more going on here. If someone messed up a sheet, and part of the reason was because they were adding lots of house rules that are not part of the game, they do deserve some criticism. Someone earlier said it seemed like they hijacked the sheet for their own use, and there does seem to be something to that. As a contributor to the repo, especially one adding to a sheet someone else created, you have a responsibility to put the existing sheet's users first.&nbsp; Saying people who are complaining should just play a different game for a week is just not an appropriate response: for people used to fairly heavy games like 13th age, it would likely take the entire session just to get the game ready to play (designing characters, setting up roll20 for the game, etc). So they are going to miss that week regardless. And if they have been looking forward to that session, and due to scheduling only get to play once every few weeks, its totally reasonable to be upset and angry that you can't play because someone took it on themselves to make changes to the sheet you never asked for, and broke it. I only get to play once a month right now, and if this happened to the game I'm in, I would be livid.
1600291495
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Dio G. said: To confirm, the sheet revert seems to have gone through at this point. That's great. The roll20 sheet staff do seem to be pretty responsive for things like this.
1600291752

Edited 1600291849
Seraaron
Plus
Sheet Author
Finderski said: Are games messed up for the week? Possibly/Probably, but they are only games. Here's a person who wants to help the community grow. They've learned their lesson; let's cut 'em some slack now and stop raking them over the coals. Many sheet authors (myself included) have all made game-breaking mistakes/updates. But if we accept their apologies and encourage (rather than condemn) them, they often times end up doing more sheets for other systems that are underserved. &nbsp;If we keep condemning, we may lose a valuable and rare resource that many people wish for... Thank you for you kindness and encouragement! And don't worry, I'm not scared off. I guess I'm just the sort of person who throws themselves in the deepend to learn to swim quickly? I'm already working on a new sheet. I'll trial it, and test it, and once I'm happy with it I'll show it off and see what people think: whether they want it as a completely separate sheet, or whether they want me to work with Fanne to incorporate some of my features into the Legacy sheet (or both). Dio G. said: To confirm, the sheet revert seems to have gone through at this point. Phew! Thank goodness! Big thank you to everyone for your patience and understanding
1600291976
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
Seraaron said: I'll trial it, and test it, and once I'm happy with it I'll show it off and see what people think: whether they want it as it's open separate sheet, or whether they want me to work with Fanne to incorporate some of my features into the Legacy sheet (or both). Yeah, a public test game for people to join to see how things work (with the Welcome Package api script installed so everyone gets a sheet assigned to them when they log in) would go a long way to regain goodwill.&nbsp; Good luck with your sheet edits/creation.
1600292182
Finderski
Pro
Sheet Author
Compendium Curator
GiGs said: Yes, we might all make mistakes, and might break a sheet by accident, but there's more going on here. If someone messed up a sheet, and part of the reason was because they were adding lots of house rules that are not part of the game, they do deserve some criticism. Someone earlier said it seemed like they hijacked the sheet for their own use, and there does seem to be something to that. As a contributor to the repo, especially one adding to a sheet someone else created, you have a responsibility to put the existing sheet's users first.&nbsp; Completely agree. Not excusing that; it was wrong. But how many stripes do they need to be beat with before we accept the apologies and the efforts to rectify the situation? GiGs said: Saying people who are complaining should just play a different game for a week is just not an appropriate response: for people used to fairly heavy games like 13th age, it would likely take the entire session just to get the game ready to play (designing characters, setting up roll20 for the game, etc). So they are going to miss that week regardless. And if they have been looking forward to that session, and due to scheduling only get to play once every few weeks, its totally reasonable to be upset and angry that you can't play because someone took it on themselves to make changes to the sheet you never asked for, and broke it. I only get to play once a month right now, and if this happened to the game I'm in, I would be livid. I was merely looking for a silver lining. I wasn't trying to suggest or imply that people don't have a right or reason to be upset/even livid about this. I totally understand it. Just trying to offer alternatives that would allow some (admittedly not necessarily all) an idea they may not have considered and turning something bad into something not as bad and still potentially fun.
1600292864
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Finderski said: GiGs said: Yes, we might all make mistakes, and might break a sheet by accident, but there's more going on here. If someone messed up a sheet, and part of the reason was because they were adding lots of house rules that are not part of the game, they do deserve some criticism. Someone earlier said it seemed like they hijacked the sheet for their own use, and there does seem to be something to that. As a contributor to the repo, especially one adding to a sheet someone else created, you have a responsibility to put the existing sheet's users first.&nbsp; Completely agree. Not excusing that; it was wrong. But how many stripes do they need to be beat with before we accept the apologies and the efforts to rectify the situation? You were recommending that people accept the apologies and let him continue to work on the sheet. I think there's good reason for people to feel like they don't want him making any more changes to the sheet - that he needs to earn people's trust before he is allowed to do that. He seems to be willing to do the work in to do that, which is a good sign. I was merely looking for a silver lining. I wasn't trying to suggest or imply that people don't have a right or reason to be upset/even livid about this. I totally understand it. Just trying to offer alternatives that would allow some (admittedly not necessarily all) an idea they may not have considered and turning something bad into something not as bad and still potentially fun. I respect you, and you helped me get started on editing sheets, so I am very grateful to you, so I don't mean to come off as cruel here. But personally I found this suggestion condescending. I am pretty sure people can figure out what to do when their plans are broken, and suggesting this could easily come across as an attempt to dismiss peoples feeling of upset, and putting sheet authors ahead of the sheet's users. I know you meant well, but it read to me as a bit insensitive.&nbsp;
1600293768
neovatar
Sheet Author
Roll20 devs reverted the PR and deployed the change so existing campaigns should be fine (sheet version is back to 1.8.1).&nbsp; So to move on: I want to pass on maintainership of the sheet, so Fanne R., since you offered to take my baby into your arms, I will gladly pass it to you :) Could you create an PR and remove me as author in sheet.json and point the github/issue tracker links README to your github fork? Maybe add something like "Sheet was started by Roll20 user neovatar" to the README. You can tag me in the github PR, if you like me to review. One closing note: Yes, Seraaron may have messed up, but learned a great thing in the process and he apologized. IMHO the real problem was Roll20 merging the PR without so much as tagging me in the PR comments (which would have alerted me). Also I'm not passing the sheet on because of hurt feelings, but because I will move to another VTT when my 13th Age campaign ends. So the sheet would have needed a new maintainer anyways. The unfortunate event just hastened this decision. So no bad blood on my side!
1600294283
Finderski
Pro
Sheet Author
Compendium Curator
GiGs said: You were recommending that people accept the apologies and let him continue to work on the sheet. I think there's good reason for people to feel like they don't want him making any more changes to the sheet - that he needs to earn people's trust before he is allowed to do that. He seems to be willing to do the work in to do that, which is a good sign. I was recommending they accept their apology and stop beating them up. Before I posted they'd already resolved he was going to be working on a different/separate sheet, so I was not meaning to imply they work on the existing sheet since Fanne had already agreed to take that over and between the two of them, and based on other feedback, it would be a separate sheet. But I can see how it may have sounded like that's what I was meaning...I apologize for my lack of clarity. GiGs said: Finderski said: I was merely looking for a silver lining. I wasn't trying to suggest or imply that people don't have a right or reason to be upset/even livid about this. I totally understand it. Just trying to offer alternatives that would allow some (admittedly not necessarily all) an idea they may not have considered and turning something bad into something not as bad and still potentially fun. I respect you, and you helped me get started on editing sheets, so I am very grateful to you, so I don't mean to come off as cruel here. But personally I found this suggestion condescending. I am pretty sure people can figure out what to do when their plans are broken, and suggesting this could easily come across as an attempt to dismiss peoples feeling of upset, and putting sheet authors ahead of the sheet's users. I know you meant well, but it read to me as a bit insensitive.&nbsp; I apologize if that sounded insensitive...it was not intended that way. I included "may not" to imply that they may have already as well. I know when I'm angry I often overlook things that are fairly obvious and potential alternatives. Again, I'm sorry. I was merely trying to diffuse a situation that was seeming to heat up, but may have inadvertently thrown more fuel on the fire. I apologize to anyone I may have offended, it was not intentional and was done purely out of a desire to help both sides in a bad situation. (Thank God I'm not an EMT...LOL)
1600295934
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
You're a great guy, Finderski :)
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Edited 1600297052
ᐰndreas J.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Translator
Seraaron said: [...] I'm a competent mathematician and coder, I was just clumsy with this first time working on a 'public scale',&nbsp; [...] Seraaron said: [...] I guess I'm just the sort of person who throws themselves in the deepend to learn to swim quickly? So I assume you learned that what happened was essentially a mix of "testing in production" and "scream test", combined with the fact that Roll20 relying on the community to check themselves and contacting previous people working on the sheet etc. There was a time when I kept a close eye on the repo and new PRs, commenting on those that seemed out of the ordinary, but don't do that these days to the same degree. Had I looked at the PR, I would have realized that someone new is making changes to an old (and rarely touched sheet), and would have likely commented on it. This discussion brings attention once again that changes to a code in active use should often be an upgrade that enhances or expands on existing things or new features, and not as much a sideways "change", especially with how attributes are stored.
I'd love a separate sheet of the homebrew. It was perfect for what I was doing
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Richard T.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Sheet Author
I wasn't sure if this warrants a topic in the suggestion page but it would be nice to have a system in place to send a message/notification to game-owners using particular sheets. I've been considering remaking one of my sheets and have no way to reach out to existing user besides maybe uploading an update with a header announcing possible changes.... which now that I think about it sounds an excellent idea.
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ᐰndreas J.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Translator
Richard T. said: I've been considering remaking one of my sheets and have no way to reach out to existing user besides maybe uploading an update with a header announcing possible changes.... which now that I think about it sounds an excellent idea. Yes, that is what I'd call a gamer move. I think the GURPS sheet is at the forefront on doing this, and there are some comments on this collected on: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Sheet_Author_Tips#Sheet_Changelog_and_notification" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Sheet_Author_Tips#Sheet_Changelog_and_notification</a>