UDL 1.0 Updates, Bugs, & Feedback

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1620290912

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Bug: Lines of different widths don't line up flush It's not always possible to line up lines of different widths so that they are flush with each other. In this animated gif, I start with the secret door recessed slightly to the left of the wall. I then use Alt+Right Arrow to move the secret door one tick to the right. The secret door switches from being slightly recessed to jutting out slightly. At no point is it flush with the wall. (animated gif) The walls were created while the grid was set to .1, and then Shift+Click was used to place the walls and doors, so they are straight. The doors were set similarly, so they are perfectly vertical as well. Because vision blocked from the center for lines of all widths in LDL, an imperceptible secret door was trivial to set up correctly, and there were many ways to do it where the best method could be chosen for the situation. Between this and the previous bug where vision and movement are not blocked from the same part of the line, there is now a very narrow set of conditions by which a secret door can be imperceptible to the players, and they don't always work with the map art.

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Bunny said: Hey all! There are a few updates on things in the works or out now. For those of you posting bug reports, thank you! We're checking them against the work we have right now to ensure they're either included in the current known issues or get added. We're looking at removing the Sharpen Effect in Night Vision in order to fix the animated token ghosting effect, the Grid disappearing issue, the color-blending and overlapping effect issues. We'll be using our internal usage tracking, combined with the feedback on which is a higher priority for you, to make the final decision. We'll let you know what the decision is next week. Nocturnal Effect for Night Vision is live! Video of it in action, and how to enable it: <a href="https://roll20.io/Nocturnal-Vid" rel="nofollow">https://roll20.io/Nocturnal-Vid</a> All of the Drawing Tools are now supported within Dynamic Lighting, video walkthrough -> <a href="https://roll20.io/DL-DrawingTools" rel="nofollow">https://roll20.io/DL-DrawingTools</a> Not specifically UDL related but will hopefully be useful, Token Settings now open to the last tab you had active, so that should make editing tokens much faster! I'll make sure we're getting answers to the questions and add in those bug reports so we can get back to you all with further updates. Just FYI - My bug report of 15 April ("Turning on UDL on a page can create a fully-black view for players on a different page.") is still an issue after the recent release, and still reproducible on both production and dev servers.

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My button for creating Explorable Darkness or Permanent Darkness is not working. 

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Same as Raul A. My tools fo Explorable Darkness or Permanent Darkness are not working. At the same time, whenever I turn on UDL and Explorer Mode, even if Explorer Mode is enabled parts of the map do not stay revealed, and the whole page acts as if Explorer Mode was not enabled (even though it is).

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Thank you Raul A and Jugu! We have a fix we're testing right now for the Permanent Darkness. I'll update here as soon as it passes QA and can get put out.

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EDIT: Seems to have fixed itself... reloaded the map several times, nothing changed, reloaded another time - it worked. :-/ BUT moving the PC token from room to room a bit, suddenly the whole map was revealed for the player. I can just HOPE this doesn't happen during the game. I've seen this "whole map revealed" bug MONTHS ago in the forums already, is this still not fixed?! I'm not sure if something like this was reported somewhere already, but I have a weird bug in one map with UDL (I try to avoid that buggy system where I can, but sometimes I can't get around it). In one of my maps, when an explorable area is not in line of sight, it turns totally grey, instead of just "dimmed out". I have another map with the EXACT SAME settings, which looks - correctly - like this: But in the other map, it looks like this: Which looks REALLY, really ugly. Especially when the character is moved from room to room and the rooms not in sight turn totally grey.

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Bunny said: Thank you Raul A and Jugu! We have a fix we're testing right now for the Permanent Darkness. I'll update here as soon as it passes QA and can get put out. As I posted previously, I am having the same problem for both Permanent Darkness and Explorable Darkness. I can neither hide nor reveal areas using either type of darkness.

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For those of you that were having problems with the Permanent and Explorable Darkness -- they should be all set! There may be a delay in rendering when using the Explorable Darkness tool that we're going to be resolving in an upcoming release. And for the other bugs, thank you all. As I said earlier this week, I'll make sure we're getting those answers out to you (or the known bugs fixed) as soon as we can.

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If I create a new game, it immediately says this: This game can be converted to Updated Dynamic Lighting. Click “Convert Lighting” under “Settings” above. For more information, check the  Help Center . If I then do that, it says this: There was an error when trying to convert your game to Updated Dynamic Lighting: * undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass

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Sean G. said: If I create a new game, it immediately says this: This game can be converted to Updated Dynamic Lighting. Click “Convert Lighting” under “Settings” above. For more information, check the  Help Center . If I then do that, it says this: There was an error when trying to convert your game to Updated Dynamic Lighting: * undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass Did a quick test and the same thing happened…

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Brian C. said: One of the real pain points for me in UDL has been since June when walls were changed to block light from their edge instead of the center. I make walls that should not be moved as thin lines (which are harder to grab) and doors as XL lines (which are easier to grab, especially from further out). Unfortunately, the change made secret doors stick out from the wall under UDL. I just found out that UDL lines only block vision from the edge. Movement is still blocked from the center. This allows a player to find a secret door by dragging their token along the wall and seeing where it sticks. In this example, I have purposely stuck the secret door out too far to show where vision is blocked, and it is still  more recessed from the wall. I finally switch the secret door's thickness to thin to visually show where the wall blocks movement. <snip> At the minimum though, the vision and movement need to be blocked at the same part of the line, whether that it is the edge or the center. I agree, I would find it much more convenient / intuitive if line thickness in UDL behaved like it does in LDL. Please consider at least making the old behavior an option in the page settings.

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Sean G. said: If I create a new game, it immediately says this: This game can be converted to Updated Dynamic Lighting. Click “Convert Lighting” under “Settings” above. For more information, check the  Help Center . If I then do that, it says this: There was an error when trying to convert your game to Updated Dynamic Lighting: * undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass I agree that the error is not intuitive, but the game needs at least one object to convert.

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Brian C. said: Sean G. said: If I create a new game, it immediately says this: This game can be converted to Updated Dynamic Lighting. Click “Convert Lighting” under “Settings” above. For more information, check the  Help Center . If I then do that, it says this: There was an error when trying to convert your game to Updated Dynamic Lighting: * undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass I agree that the error is not intuitive, but the game needs at least one object to convert. The error is fine.  It's the "this game can be converted to Updated Dynamic Lighting" part that I'm wondering about because clearly it can't.  And with a new empty game I wouldn't think it should need to be.

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Sean G. said: The error is fine.  It's the "this game can be converted to Updated Dynamic Lighting" part that I'm wondering about because clearly it can't.  And with a new empty game I wouldn't think it should need to be. Good point.

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UDL Explorable darkness issue: the explored darkness on some maps in my game is erased/reset to not-explored when another map in the game is duplicated. For maps in which knowing where you have been is key to finding your way out this issue is a real bummer. From experimenting, the auto-resetting of the explorable darkness seems to happen on a UDL map that the players or GM is presently viewing as well as other ULD maps in the game which are not being viewed. Confusingly, one other UDL map in the game seem to be unaffected (so far).

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I have had this issue every time I have attempted to use Explorer mode, and I don't often hear people talking about it. Do most people just not bother with Explorer mode right now? Or are most people just using LDL? Sean G. said: I can still break vision doing the following: 1) New Blank Map 2) Turn on Dynamic Lighting and Explorer Mode 3) Drag an image to the map.  Turn on Vision and some small radius of night vision for the token.  Make the token controlled by someone.  4) Switch to a different map and back 5) Drag token to somewhere unexplored.  Possibly a couple times. I had assumed that this was covered under the "VISIBILITY" issue in the first post, but that's marked as completed now.  I had also hoped that this would be covered under the explorer mode thing in today's release notes, but looks like that's also a no.

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WaveofShadow said: I have had this issue every time I have attempted to use Explorer mode, and I don't often hear people talking about it. Do most people just not bother with Explorer mode right now? Or are most people just using LDL? Sean G. said: I can still break vision doing the following: 1) New Blank Map 2) Turn on Dynamic Lighting and Explorer Mode 3) Drag an image to the map.  Turn on Vision and some small radius of night vision for the token.  Make the token controlled by someone.  4) Switch to a different map and back 5) Drag token to somewhere unexplored.  Possibly a couple times. I had assumed that this was covered under the "VISIBILITY" issue in the first post, but that's marked as completed now.  I had also hoped that this would be covered under the explorer mode thing in today's release notes, but looks like that's also a no. Hiya, I think it is pretty popular TBF.  Personally I don't use it as I prefer "you can only see what you can see", for me once you leave an area anything can happen there and so it should return to mystery and if you can't remember the way out, well...(I mean seriously, scratch some marks so the monsters can find you more easily for Pete's sake!)

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IPad Support: We use UDL for weekly play and are fine with its performance on desktop und android tablets. But we have the problem, that on IPad the player can see through walls (UDL explorer mode). The player can see the map and tokens on the token layer. Is someone experience the same problem? Right now we can play with it (my players manage to ignore hidden things they have seen), but ist would be fine if we can use the IPad in the same way as the desktop.

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Findulas said: We use UDL for weekly play and are fine with its performance on desktop und android tablets. But we have the problem, that on IPad the player can see through walls (UDL explorer mode). The player can see the map and tokens on the token layer. Is someone experience the same problem? Are they using Chrome or Firefox as their browser? Safari isn't officially supported, so is more likely to have issues in general.

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Andreas J. said: Findulas said: We use UDL for weekly play and are fine with its performance on desktop und android tablets. But we have the problem, that on IPad the player can see through walls (UDL explorer mode). The player can see the map and tokens on the token layer. Is someone experience the same problem? Are they using Chrome or Firefox as their browser? Safari isn't officially supported, so is more likely to have issues in general. The problem is, that either chrome, firefoc or safari on the IPad use the same rendering engine named webkit (This is an appstore rule by apple). But I will check out, if chrome/firefox makes a difference on the IPad.

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WaveofShadow said: I have had this issue every time I have attempted to use Explorer mode, and I don't often hear people talking about it. Do most people just not bother with Explorer mode right now? Or are most people just using LDL? Sean G. said: I can still break vision doing the following: 1) New Blank Map 2) Turn on Dynamic Lighting and Explorer Mode 3) Drag an image to the map.  Turn on Vision and some small radius of night vision for the token.  Make the token controlled by someone.  4) Switch to a different map and back 5) Drag token to somewhere unexplored.  Possibly a couple times. I had assumed that this was covered under the "VISIBILITY" issue in the first post, but that's marked as completed now.  I had also hoped that this would be covered under the explorer mode thing in today's release notes, but looks like that's also a no. I'm pretty much assuming that everyone saying "I tried it and it was immediately terrible and I couldn't get anything to work, I'm sticking with LDL forever" is running into this bug.  Especially the ones saying they tested it and everything worked fine, and then it just stopped working during their session and they had to switch back to LDL.  So people are talking about it - they're just not playing around with UDL long enough to figure out the exact sequence. UDL just doesn't work if you use explorer mode and switch maps, so I guess by definition, those of us happily using UDL are either not using explorer mode, or are sticking to very few maps and not changing between them often?

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I went through those steps methodically. While it is true that the GM view is not reporting accurately and is plagued by artifacts, the player view seems fine. And the view that is seen on the gm side updates correctly when the player is the one who instigates the move. This is likely why it is not being reported as flawed by many people. The GM view should be fixed, but the player view seems fine.

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keithcurtis said: I went through those steps methodically. While it is true that the GM view is not reporting accurately and is plagued by artifacts, the player view seems fine. And the view that is seen on the gm side updates correctly when the player is the one who instigates the move. This is likely why it is not being reported as flawed by many people. The GM view should be fixed, but the player view seems fine. Give your dummy account control of a token on a map with explorable darkness (possibly using controlled by: "all players" - I know it breaks that way but unsure if it's a requirement).  Switch the player ribbon to a different map and back, then move the token around a bit on the dummy account.  It'll break vision for the dummy account while possibly still looking like everything is ok for the GM. My steps were the simplest ones I could find to reproduce the issue without logging in to multiple accounts and whatnot, but not the only case where it happens.  I'm kinda hoping it's a bunch of manifestations of the same bug and it'll all get fixed at the same time.

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Gotcha. Yes, if I assign control of the player token to All Players instead of directly to the player, switch the player flag to another map and back, it does require the player to refresh to avoid artifacts and unexpected behavior. I had not encountered this before, and though it is unlikely to occur in my own game, it certainly could and should be fixed.

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There appears to be a bug now that allows tokens to pass through Legacy Dynamic Lighting barriers. I have no idea why this is happening as all maps with LDL are set to have Dynamic Lighting Barriers Restrict Movement. Due to this bug players can just move their tokens though barrier walls and easily see areas of the map that should remain hidden until discovered in normal game play. How long has this bug been around, and more importantly, does the Roll20 team have a date when this bug will be fixed?

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First I've seen it reported. You have double checked to make sure Restricted movement is turned on for that page, that the token is a controlled token, and have tested using a  Dummy Account ?

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Not game breaking but during tonight’s session Control-L on a player token just made the entire map dark gray (like unexplored Explorer mode.) Couldn’t even see the player token…

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Sean G. said: keithcurtis said: I went through those steps methodically. While it is true that the GM view is not reporting accurately and is plagued by artifacts, the player view seems fine. And the view that is seen on the gm side updates correctly when the player is the one who instigates the move. This is likely why it is not being reported as flawed by many people. The GM view should be fixed, but the player view seems fine. Give your dummy account control of a token on a map with explorable darkness (possibly using controlled by: "all players" - I know it breaks that way but unsure if it's a requirement).  Switch the player ribbon to a different map and back, then move the token around a bit on the dummy account.  It'll break vision for the dummy account while possibly still looking like everything is ok for the GM. My steps were the simplest ones I could find to reproduce the issue without logging in to multiple accounts and whatnot, but not the only case where it happens.  I'm kinda hoping it's a bunch of manifestations of the same bug and it'll all get fixed at the same time. I wonder if some of my problems might stem from having generic lighting tokens that all players can control. I'll give individual control over lighting sources to the players that need it and see if that changes things.

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keithcurtis said: First I've seen it reported. You have double checked to make sure Restricted movement is turned on for that page, that the token is a controlled token, and have tested using a  Dummy Account ? Hi Keith, I do have Restricted Movement turned on for that page. I have found that using Control + L while viewing a player token has shown me that the barriers do seem to be working as intended, so the issue seems to have been resolve. It seemed last night that this did not work for me, but today, it appears to act as it should. *shrugs shoulders* Thanks for your reply.

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Moving UDL drawn lines basically destroys UDL.  How can I "edit" my UDL lines, without having to turn off UDL and turn it back on again to remove all the artifacts?  UDL is so painful to use for me and my players, it breaks my heart.  I have this "box" of UDL showing up on my screen, but there is no lines/drawings/outlines for UDL in that position....

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Is it a box of "permanent darkness"? Those can sometimes appear when using the reveal tool.

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Can't remember if this is a known bug in UDL but here goes. :) Token seem transparent (Explore mode on or Daylight off) Tokens looks fine (Explore mode off or Daylight on) Players see the same except that the token they control is fine.

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That's on the list and was mentioned in the last Round Table. For the time being, you can make them opaque for your view by specifically listing yourself as a controller.

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keithcurtis said: That's on the list and was mentioned in the last Round Table. For the time being, you can make them opaque for your view by specifically listing yourself as a controller. Thanks. Didn't catch the last round table. :) But doesn't really help the players, they still see all other token as transparent tokens. 

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They do? I wasn't aware of that. No one mentioned that in our group test last game.

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I think that's the case in dim light, and I'm not sure it's not intentional.

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BTW, an exercise we tried last game that had good payoff: The first 10 minutes was set aside for DL verification. I put all tokens into a UDL dungeon that had nothing to do with the story. We ran tests to make sure everyone could see, that they had the proper vision and light settings, and there were no surprises with Explorer mode. Once everything was tweaked to optimum, we re-saved default tokens. Made things go very smoothly during the game.

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keithcurtis said: BTW, an exercise we tried last game that had good payoff: The first 10 minutes was set aside for DL verification. I put all tokens into a UDL dungeon that had nothing to do with the story. We ran tests to make sure everyone could see, that they had the proper vision and light settings, and there were no surprises with Explorer mode. Once everything was tweaked to optimum, we re-saved default tokens. Made things go very smoothly during the game. Nice tip.  Wish there was a way to upvote a post, but this will have to do, thanks Keith

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Sean G. said: I think that's the case in dim light, and I'm not sure it's not intentional. hmmm, interesting. There is dim light on only. i will try and boost it to bright light. edit: It's intentional! :)  Bright light over the table to the left = token af fully opaque. (and for the players as well)

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Heiner said: BUT moving the PC token from room to room a bit, suddenly the whole map was revealed for the player. I can just HOPE this doesn't happen during the game. I've seen this "whole map revealed" bug MONTHS ago in the forums already, is this still not fixed?! Which browser was this?  I've seen an effect like this that appears only in the Firefox browser.  It appears to be triggered by too many token changes - perhaps some kind of resource leak issue.  I've found that a sure way to trigger it is to have a long combat with the Turnmarker API script running and the rotating animation on.  That predictably causes enough token changes to trigger the Firefox bug. When it does get triggered, the dynamic lighting (both LDL and UDL - it doesn't matter) is turned off for me, revealing the entire map.  My browser also crashes, and I have to restart it and reenter the game. So given this browser-specific bug, why do I still use Firefox?  Because it performs a whole lot better with dynamic lighting - both LDL and UDL.

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Hey Folxs, I’m popping in to let you know about the team's decision to remove the Sharpen effect for Night Vision. As you all remember we originally launched the Sharpen effect to Night Vision to make it more distinct from the light sources. Many users requested to make Sharpen optional, which we did in the spirit of adding more customization to your games. As UDL matured Night Vision, we had an obligation to resolve the strange interactions that happened with Night Vision like animated tokens and in order to do that we overhauled how Night Vision is rendered and with that overhaul Sharpen can not coexist. While we’re sad to see the feature go we’re confident that this change will be better for the long term consistency of dynamic lighting. Cheers

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Corey J. said: Hey Folxs, I’m popping in to let you know about the team's decision to remove the Sharpen effect for Night Vision. As you all remember we originally launched the Sharpen effect to Night Vision to make it more distinct from the light sources. Many users requested to make Sharpen optional, which we did in the spirit of adding more customization to your games. As UDL matured Night Vision, we had an obligation to resolve the strange interactions that happened with Night Vision like animated tokens and in order to do that we overhauled how Night Vision is rendered and with that overhaul Sharpen can not coexist. While we’re sad to see the feature go we’re confident that this change will be better for the long term consistency of dynamic lighting. Cheers Hi Corey I seem to recall some mention of the removal of this feature making a positive impact on the loss of grid problem?  Is that the case or do I need some sleep?  Also, just been in and it still appears, when is the change anticipated? So many questions, so sorry : ))

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Is it normal that the explorer mode is still not working? Whenever a token is dropped after moving, the previous vision is simply reverted all black. If the update when token drop is not enabled, and while the token is being moved, the vision outside of the night vision radius becomes grey (as it should normally) but when the token gets dropped, the greyness disappears and is replaced by blackness, as if it was never explored. Is there a fix to this, or is it a bug that is currently being worked on?

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How are you testing this? I ran a game last week with Explorer Mode, and although Ctrl-L didn't show much other than gray, the player experience was flawless. Try testing with a  Dummy Account .

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Every single time I think to myself "Hey, it's been a few months since the last time I tried, I wonder if UDL has undergone enough changes to be usable now" I test it out, run into more bugs (or the same bugs), or general usage issues, and decide not to use it. It's becoming a concerning pattern :(

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Recently updated a campaign to UDL as I'm still doing preparations and sooner seems better than later for moving away from a feature being phased out. UDL has been working pretty well with Daylight Mode, but I came to a dungeon where I wanted to use darkness for the latter half; turned off Daylight Mode and... nothing. I have a token on the lighting layer emitting Bright Light, no light. I move it to the token layer, no light. I switch to another page and back, nothing. I reload Roll20, nothing. I thought it might be a ctrl-L error, so I turned on Night Vision; works fine. Kinda ridiculous that a token creating light, one of the most basic functions in a lighting system, doesn't work 3 days after the scheduled phase out of LDL.

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I think that part of the problem that I've been having is using TokenMod to set vision. If I manually set a token's vision (and then get players to reload), then I've had success.

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Hello everyone! I am once again crawling up from the cracks in Roll20’s VTT to talk with y’all about bug collections and updates.    To those of you who saw the error "undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass” when trying to convert a game, this error shows up when an entirely blank game is trying to be converted. I do think this can be kind of confusing though, so we’ll see what we can do to make that more understandable!    To those of you who have discussed continued issues with Explorer Mode, thank you!!! We’re on it. We’re still searching for reproduction steps for the translucent token bug, so if anyone stumbles upon them, please send me a carrier pigeon message in the Help Center. As for the explorer mode issues that occur when switching pages, the Devs have been made aware! We’re gonna try to squash it ASAP.    Also, Keith, that tip is so great! I would love to get that suggestion added to our Help Center, so I’ll see what I can do.    Simon G. - Thanks for asking! Sharpen will be disappearing early next week, and should help with the grid disappearing issue.    Trognar, thank you for this report! I’ll be reaching out to collect some additional info about this trouble you encountered using UDL!    Just a heads up, expect some organizational changes as we do an internal audit of the state of UDL as we pass our original intended sunset date for LDL. This will probably include the making of a new thread, since we’re up to 14 pages here and have squashed SO many bugs during that time.    Thank you all for your understanding around the Sunset changes and the recent updates with Sharpen! Seeing such positive responses to these increases in transparency has me really excited for the future. I hope y’all enjoy your weekend games, and I’ll see you again next week! 

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.... We’re still searching for reproduction steps for the translucent token bug, so if anyone stumbles upon them, please send me a carrier pigeon message in the Help Center. ....   I think this is because it's unclear what exactly it's *supposed* to be doing, so it's hard to tell what's buggy. Take a look a these three screenshots with UDL and explorer mode: With a low value of the "GM Darkness Opacity" slider (in this case 30), tokens that the GM does not control or that have vision turned off are translucent. If I increase the opacity slider to 80, tokens in bright light become less translucent. If I ctrl-L a token, then everything in bright light is opaque and everything in dim light is translucent. I assume that at least some of that is intended behavior.  But since a GM probably doesn't want to turn on vision for all her monsters and doesn't necessarily want to explicitly take control of them, that means there's going to be an awful lot of translucence for low GM Darkness Opacity slider values or low lit maps, which is annoying.

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Just to clarify, from my personal preference, I like the idea that in low light, from the players perspective, tokens become more transparent as lighting values decrease.  It simulates the "fuzzy" and "hard to see" portions of low light and makes the game more engaging (from my point of view).  However, from the GM perspective, having transparent tokens is a giant pain.   While I would personally like to keep the first set of behaviors and allow tokens to be "fuzzy" for the players, if that means as the GM I have a hard time seeing tokens, then please make it go away everywhere.  

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