Opt In to the New Measure Tool!

Hi Mira, The cone measuring tool has a setting that locks the cone's width to height (which means an included angle of 53.13 degrees instead of 45 or 60) Mira said: While I am grateful for the feature, can you make an option to measure cones by the side? In D&D, a 15 foot cone is measured by the side. The tool's 15 foot cone is much bigger than D&D's 15 foot cone. For D&D it will only hit 6 squares, but a 15 foot cone using this tool hits 15 squares, which is 2.5 more. (And that's if using the rounded cone. The straight cone is even bigger)

Looking into it more, and doing some testing myself. So, apparently per the rules of 5e, there are two different methods for defining cones. The ruler as is does seem to follow one of those methods. However, the other method, which is what I've always used, it does not. I started to wonder if this was a case of me mistaking house rule or perhaps old rules (I started with 3.5e) for fact, but then I found this image which is from Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg 87. c2004.png (1500×1376) (cursecdn.com)

Yeah, I never like that diagram. It's correct, but what if your spellcaster points his cone at angle other than horizontally, vertically, or diagonally  across the map ? T he shape of the cone depends on what direction you point it, and when it's not in one of those directions, conical AOEs get weird. The problem is with the distance distortion created when using a square grid where diagonal distances (in squares) are treated the same as orthogonal (horizontal and vertical) distances. True conical areas of effect don't really exist when using a square grid. Same thing for circular or spherical Areas of Effect: A 30 ft. diameter AOE on a square grid is actually a 30 ft. square. This is why some people ignore the grid when dealing with AOEs. When the spell says a 30' cone or circle, we draw a true cone or circle, and use the grid only for measuring movement. What's a little cognitive dissonance when we're playing a fantasy game?

@Rick Well that is what makes things like this measuring tool useful. I vastly prefer playing online on a VTT to in person cause it does alot of the 'math' for me. I like options, and this tool has many, which is good. Ideally I'd just prefer one more option that measures cones by the side. Then people can pick which method they prefer.

Rick A. said: Hi Mira, The cone measuring tool has a setting that locks the cone's width to height (which means an included angle of 53.13 degrees instead of 45 or 60) Mira said: While I am grateful for the feature, can you make an option to measure cones by the side? In D&D, a 15 foot cone is measured by the side. The tool's 15 foot cone is much bigger than D&D's 15 foot cone. For D&D it will only hit 6 squares, but a 15 foot cone using this tool hits 15 squares, which is 2.5 more. (And that's if using the rounded cone. The straight cone is even bigger) Also, a cone should originate from a corner or side of the caster, not the center of their square. The measure tool allows you to do this. Once you get used to this, the cone affects everything that is at least 50% covered by a square, and tha may be more intuitive. I don't think Roll20 can get too nitpicky here, since many tables have different interpretations of areas of effect (some even ascribe to the "all circles are squares" philosophy).

Here's an example in play, with the Xanathar's template included: Similarly, the 5e rules for radius spells also need an origin point of an intersection, not the center of the caster. For things which do continuously emanate from the caster (like a paladin aura, which is not a spell), I would suggest using auras, since though they originate from the center, they measure starting at the edge.

looks great

It's fun.

Thank you for the post and instruction. 

I'd love to use the new rulers and such, but my issue is the Align Grid feature doesn't exactly perfectly align the grid with the maps I use.  Sometimes I have to import maps from adventures I run because it's only available on the PDF I own, and it has grid lines drawn onto it already, so I have to use Align Grid. Except for some reason, it will partially align the grid, but the more you move from the center of the map where the grid was aligned, the more off center the grid lines  become.

I love this new feature. I don't know how hard this would be to implement, but if there was a way to add a function where you can press a button and *draw* the shape you have measured out, that would be amazing. It would be super useful for things like Fog Cloud where the effect sticks around for a while. If you guys added that I would be the happiest little goblin :)

Sometimes when a print map is converted or scanned to pdf or other formats, it gets stretched so that it's included grid is not quite uniform across the whole map. Where the printed grid is not too dark, I make Roll20's grid lines darker and more opaque in the page settings and tell everyone to ignore the lighter grid markings on the imported map.  You could try contacting the map publisher and ask if they have a VTT compatible version of the map or one without grid lines. Dungeon Master Ao said: I'd love to use the new rulers and such, but my issue is the Align Grid feature doesn't exactly perfectly align the grid with the maps I use.  Sometimes I have to import maps from adventures I run because it's only available on the PDF I own, and it has grid lines drawn onto it already, so I have to use Align Grid. Except for some reason, it will partially align the grid, but the more you move from the center of the map where the grid was aligned, the more off center the grid lines  become.

I like the new options, they neat and helpful. The only thing I don't like is when you're measuring movement now, the display covers a large area making it hard to see the table behind it much more than it used to. It sometimes makes it hard to see the baddies I have either hidden or in combat that could make Opportunity Attacks based on their movement.  Other than that issue, I'd give it a 9/10 for usefulness and visuals. Great job on the design.

Rick A. said: Sometimes when a print map is converted or scanned to pdf or other formats, it gets stretched so that it's included grid is not quite uniform across the whole map. Where the printed grid is not too dark, I make Roll20's grid lines darker and more opaque in the page settings and tell everyone to ignore the lighter grid markings on the imported map.  You could try contacting the map publisher and ask if they have a VTT compatible version of the map or one without grid lines. Dungeon Master Ao said: I'd love to use the new rulers and such, but my issue is the Align Grid feature doesn't exactly perfectly align the grid with the maps I use.  Sometimes I have to import maps from adventures I run because it's only available on the PDF I own, and it has grid lines drawn onto it already, so I have to use Align Grid. Except for some reason, it will partially align the grid, but the more you move from the center of the map where the grid was aligned, the more off center the grid lines  become. The corollary to this is that if the printed grids are extremely dark, get the size close and turn the program grid to zero opacity. Players will not notice the occasional discrepancy of a pixel or three.

Let's go!!!! :D

This is awesome and a much appreciated addition. Good usability as well. I'd like to suggest an option to place the measured area on the map, like a shape. It'd be good for permanent AoE spells, abilities and permanent/temporary hazards. That could be done by implementing the same drawing function on shapes or by adding an option to the Measure tool like "keep on the map" or "transform to shape", probably. Anyway I'm happy to see Roll20 taking good steps toward improving the VTT usability.

Tonight was our first game playing with the new measure tool. The AOE shapes worked ok for the most part, but using the ruler for token movement was a bust. No one could see where they were going due to the oversize black box, and for all of us including me as GM the distance lines were persistent even  when not using shift-drag. I had to hard refresh every time someone used it. We were trying to play without a grid, using the ruler to track the distance moved (either using right-click or the "Q" key), but for everyone any movement  with more than one waypoint caused extreme lag; I turned the grid back on and the lagging stopped. ( I did notice that moving without a grid enabled creates a LOT of waypoints even when trying to move a token in a straight line) Participants were using both Chrome and Firefox, on a variety of different PCs (no tablets). Also, the sandbox crashed several times over the course of 4 1/2 hours of play and was extremely slow to restart. Normally for this particular game restarting the sandbox takes about 30 seconds or so; tonight, two times it took over five minutes to restart. Very annoying since I couldn't use any of my macros that relied on MODS so I had to do many things manually.

Ken S. said: I created a new, empty game to test (5E sheet, defaults taken). After repeated trials, the problem appears to be intermittant. Sometimes I get a phantom waypoint, sometimes I don't.  When I do, it's always caused by use of "x" to redisplay a measurement made with the measurement tool, not from token movement (then again, I didn't test token movement as much as I did measurement, as it wasn't causing any phantoms) Steps: open measurement tool click-drag and right-click to add one or more waypoints, release left mouse to dismiss path close measurement tool, open measurement tool (I never got a phantom if I didn't first close and reopen) click x to redisplay last measurement click anywhere to dismiss displayed path, sometimes a phantom of the first waypoint remains as illustrated above When it does, it appears on both player and DM maps (I do have "broadcast to others" selected), but it's the player's color only on the player's map, on the DM's map it appears white Further measurements will not erase it, each person has to exit and re-enter to remove their phantom Both DM and test user are using a mac (separate macs), firefox, no extensions, and both cleared cache before launching the game to make these tests. Note: while there's a token on the map, since I was also testing token movement, it appears to be irrelevant, and was not selected during the tests that created phantoms.  And I'd exited and cleared cache after the token movement tests, before the tests that showed intermittant behavior. We had this issue yesterday in our game. We have seven people in our game (including the GM), and use a variety of browsers and operating systems, so I'm pretty sure it's not related to browser or OS. The only way we found to get rid of the phantom boxes was to either reload roll20 or switch maps. With seven of us measuring stuff out we ended up having to reload at the end of every combat turn. 

I like the new options, but the little window with the measurements takes up too much space.

It gets REALLY laggy the more waypoints you have... AND the box with the measurements is blocking the view!

When typing and hitting "q" Ruler gets acitvated! I noticed it while adding an Item to a new Rollable Table!

That shouldn't happen if you are in a text input area. Were you actually entering data?

Bug is confirmed, my guess is when the Devs fixed this bug for handouts and the chat tab it wasn't fixed for Rollable Tables (and perhaps not other areas). 

I added a new Rollable Table to create a token for a specific character. I gave said character the name "Requiem". When hitting the "q" in Requiem the Ruler Tool opened itself! YES, this should NOT happen as it was fixed regarding the changelog. But as Gauss mentioned, it IS a Bug and could be confirmed... ;) keithcurtis said: That shouldn't happen if you are in a text input area. Were you actually entering data?

Confirmed. It's a bug.

I made a post about this but I will comment here too. Whoever designed the updated measuring tool and thought it was a good idea to add vision-blocking blocks whenever you make a new measurement needs to have their head examined. Please, please fix/change this monstrosity...

That black rectangle has too much information (and I'm usually a proponent for more info being a good thing). I want to know the distance: I don't need to count squares (I can do that by eye) I don't need to know who is making the measurement (the color tells me that if I care) and even the unit of measurement is superfluous. Also, I'd like to be able to see the startpoint, the ways points and end points of the measurement. Either show the distance as a single number within the vector line or off to the side, and make the box translucent or, better yet, make it just big enough to highlight the numbers within it, like the old measuring too does.

This is essentially an entire revolution in Virtual Table Top Gaming.  With this power I can finally wield the azure flame of Filigras the Worm.

The new, smaller waypoint tooltips are a massive improvement! I also appreciate the fact that the last tooltip of the measurement is slightly offset from the last point selected.

Super-useful changes, Riley!

The new smaller waypoints are great!  A feature that I would like added is another option for the snapping: along the 'edge' of a grid line, instead of the center of the grid square or from the corner.  Or adjust the 'corner' snapping to not just be the corner, but also the midpoint between each corner. Midpoint snapping would look like this:  Versus current corner only snapping:

That would accommodate a few edge* cases in 5e. *heh

Gauss said: Bug is confirmed, my guess is when the Devs fixed this bug for handouts and the chat tab it wasn't fixed for Rollable Tables (and perhaps not other areas).  wasn't fixed for macros in the journal... when you enter data, it switches to the ruler still....

As you just came back maybe you can take care of the CTRL+A shorcut that automatically switches to the ruler on AZERTY keyboards... and q doesn't do anything at all on those keyboards either.. Already sent a bug repart, got an answer saying "great finding" and nothing happens.... Thanks for your help if you can  Riley D. said: Hey folks! We put out a new update today which had a lot of bugfixes and some new changes to the Measure Tool based on your feedback. In particular: We've added a new option to the Measure Tool so you can choose to make a measurement Linger instead of fading immediately. A new Trash Can icon has been added to the top-right corner of the Measure Info Box so you can dismiss measurements from other players. When using the Q shortcut to add waypoints to measurements, the waypoint info boxes are now more compact. You can click on them if you'd like to see more detailed information about the waypoint. Fixed an issue where the Measure Tool would sometimes leave info boxes on the screen which could not be dismissed. These should appear less often, and if they do get stuck, you can now use the Trash Can icon to dismiss them. Fixed an issue with the Q shortcut not working properly with the Measure Tool Fixed an issue where the Measure Tool info boxes would appear as a black box. Fixed various bugs with recalling previous measures and dismissing measurements when switching pages. Please keep the feedback coming, we are listening and continuing to improve this tool based on what you're telling us and how you're using it. Thank you!

The problem for me is in the informations window stick to the arrow of the line or in front of the other tools, it s discomforting to show something to others. Why this window can't be at the start of the mesurement and stay static.?

Ermite said: The problem for me is in the informations window stick to the arrow of the line or in front of the other tools, it s discomforting to show something to others. Why this wndow can't be at the start of the mesurement and stay static. Would prefer that, too!

My group and I really love the new measurement tool. It greatly improves the game. Other imporvements I'd like to suggest: - have more than one measurement Linger at the time (you can cancel them with the trash can icon when you don't need anymore) - attach a label on it (to differenziate the variuos measurements lingering on the map) - connect to the turn tracker for a duration (ok, that is sort of a dream of an improved turn tracker)

TheMarkus1204 said: Ermite said: The problem for me is in the informations window stick to the arrow of the line or in front of the other tools, it s discomforting to show something to others. Why this wndow can't be at the start of the mesurement and stay static. Would prefer that, too! Me, too

There's only one option I'd like: when I choose linger, allow me to move the shape without having to redraw it. This would take this feature from 9/10 to 10/10 to me. OR Add a measuring option to the circle/square options in the drawing tools (and add "cone" to the drawing tools).

My players have commented that it would be very helpful if the Measure Tool window could be minimized, just like character sheets or other windows, after they have made their measurement selections. Some of them play on smaller laptop screens, and it becomes extremely hard to use the measure tool with the small amount of screen that remains when trying to measure. I also like Steve B’s suggestion of being able to move the Measure Tool window.   Reposting as I just realized I posted this in the wrong thread. 

Rick A. said: The new, smaller waypoint tooltips are a massive improvement! I also appreciate the fact that the last tooltip of the measurement is slightly offset from the last point selected. The Box is still way too big. There is so much wasted space, there is literally no reason why it should be that big. There is so little information displayed here yet it takes up so much space. Why is there even a big box like that, just leave out the box and it would be fine. Same with those circles. Make them smaller or better yet leave them out entirely. Again, so much wasted space that covers up the map.

I agree about the amount of buffer space around the numbers - or the need for the box and circles at all - but there are probably other people that do want that space, or are even now complaining that its not enough. The devs have to compromise. James A. said: The Box is still way too big. There is so much wasted space, there is literally no reason why it should be that big. There is so little information displayed here yet it takes up so much space. Why is there even a big box like that, just leave out the box and it would be fine. Same with those circles. Make them smaller or better yet leave them out entirely. Again, so much wasted space that covers up the map.

James A. said: The Box is still way too big. There is so much wasted space, there is literally no reason why it should be that big. There is so little information displayed here yet it takes up so much space. Why is there even a big box like that, just leave out the box and it would be fine. Same with those circles. Make them smaller or better yet leave them out entirely. Again, so much wasted space that covers up the map. To me, they both serve a purpose. I use the measuring tool so I don't have to manually count the distance, if you got rid of the information displayed, the measuring tool would be pointless, including the "big" box (which only takes up about a single square). I'm more interested in the number of squares than the actual distance, but I see value in both pieces of information in that box.

Just to let the Dev aware. Yesterday on my game I use the measuring tool to do a cone, all work perfectly, I even activate the lingering and it work perfect. When I finish using it I click the trash can on the box which delete the cone for me, letter in the game my players told me if I can remove the cone, and i told them that I did, but for them was still in the view. I had to go into the measuring tool and click any ware, and then it disappear for them. 

Warlord said: Just to let the Dev aware. Yesterday on my game I use the measuring tool to do a cone, all work perfectly, I even activate the lingering and it work perfect. When I finish using it I click the trash can on the box which delete the cone for me, letter in the game my players told me if I can remove the cone, and i told them that I did, but for them was still in the view. I had to go into the measuring tool and click any ware, and then it disappear for them.  I cannot speak for the Devs but this is probably intentional.  This allows individual users to clear the measurement on their own screen so that some can clear it while others keep using it.  In the future your players can hit the trash can to get rid of it. 

Riley D. said: glowlicious ;-P