AD&D 2e Simple Sheet - Update v 2.0.0

I made some changes to the sheet, which should not take away from anything anybody has done, but add extra functionailty around spells, if you want me to add or change anything please give me a shout so I can assist. Changes: fixed formatting on some 2espell properties added some missing HTML tags and formatted for easier reading fixed bug in css added optional tag to 2espell property '{materials=xxx}'- to show Spell Materials added new roll Template for Protection Scrolls - 2Eprotscroll fixed worker script - corrected the Find Remove Traps dex adjustment added attack and AC penalties for movement updated worker script so strength is used to populate max weight per movement category changed the weight fields for gear and the coin fields to numeric fields added workerscript to calculate total gearweight from individual gear added workerscript to calculate total weaponweight from individual weapons  added new fields for total weight / total weapon weight / total gear weight updated worker script to clear the Ability Scores Notes on change of attribute value New Spell Tab List Number of Available Spells per Level Spell Book Memorised Tick Box Type of Spell Spell Name Casting Time Initiative Roll Button Macro name Cast button that uses the macro name Scrolls Type of Scroll Scroll Name Casting Time Initiative Roll Button Macro name Cast button that uses the macro name Spell Notes

I have also created spell macros using the spell rolltemplate for all Priest Spells from PHB, ToM, Necromancer's,Druid's,  Cleric's and I also did all the protection Srolls from DMG using the protection rolltemplate.   Mark W. and myself are also almost done with spell macros for all the Wizard's spells from PHB, ToM, Necromancer's, Bard's, Wizard's

Ah, a 2e sheet! That takes me back! Good ol thac0

Interesting. I will try it out, probably in our Thursday game first.

TheWebCoder said: Ah, a 2e sheet! That takes me back! Good ol thac0 THAC0 so hard to explain to new players :D

Gold said: Interesting. I will try it out, probably in our Thursday game first. Awesome please let me know how I can improve it to make it mroe useable for spell casters. I have been looking at using some worker scripts to auto mark spell as cast when you click cast button and also to count that spells memorised & cast is less than the total spells for that level, But button gives me some issues :D

Gold said: Interesting. I will try it out, probably in our Thursday game first. Oh and if you interested we have done a lot of the spells from PHB, ToM and player handbooks as macros taken level into account where needed, but you need to add two new abilities/attributes. MageLevel & PriestLevel which is used ebcuase of Dual & Multiclass and certain classes/kits that cast at lower or higher levels

Before you go through with the following change: I just wanted to ask what is the logic behind the change?  I always used the Ability Scores Notes as a permanent way to record the raw stat roll and all the racial and magical adjustments, essentially explaining why the Ability Score is xx. If you were to implement this change, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of having ability scores notes?

Also, would it be easy to make all the weight fields in the gear section auto-total?  Such that, when numerical values are entered, the sheet adds them up for you and shows the total in the "Current Weight" field? This would save most players and DMs a bit of time and effort.

Also, the current Thief skill dexterity adjustment fields: ...do not match the canon Thief skill dexterity adjustment fields: The current sheet mistakenly adjusts Climb Walls, and does nothing for Find/Remove Traps or Hide in Shadows.

Gargamond said: Before you go through with the following change: I just wanted to ask what is the logic behind the change?  I always used the Ability Scores Notes as a permanent way to record the raw stat roll and all the racial and magical adjustments, essentially explaining why the Ability Score is xx. If you were to implement this change, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of having ability scores notes? I use that field also, for, literally, Ability Score Notes. On Strength my Players put things like "Very Strong", or "Thin and weakly." On Intelligence we put Notes like "Genius-level" or "Dumb as a rock". Then, you can use a Macro that summons a character sheet field, to print a Description in the chat room. [Name] is [Intelligence Notes]. prints Biff is Dumb as a rock.

Gargamond said: Before you go through with the following change: I just wanted to ask what is the logic behind the change?  I always used the Ability Scores Notes as a permanent way to record the raw stat roll and all the racial and magical adjustments, essentially explaining why the Ability Score is xx. If you were to implement this change, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of having ability scores notes? I wrote the original worker script to put stuff  in there as you get stats above 19. But if you enter an illegal stat it says ILLEGAL but did not always reset it. But I can change it. I just assumed changing stats would not happen that often?

Gargamond said: Also, would it be easy to make all the weight fields in the gear section auto-total?  Such that, when numerical values are entered, the sheet adds them up for you and shows the total in the "Current Weight" field? This would save most players and DMs a bit of time and effort. It should be easy to total, just after the 2nd dragon treasure nobody wants to know their true encumberance :D

Gargamond said: Also, the current Thief skill dexterity adjustment fields: ...do not match the canon Thief skill dexterity adjustment fields: The current sheet mistakenly adjusts Climb Walls, and does nothing for Find/Remove Traps or Hide in Shadows. I use the following two tables and I checked the worker script is definitely correct. The FR Traps was setting a strange variable so fixed that. From the TSR Revised PHB: From the Player's Options:

Gold said: Gargamond said: Before you go through with the following change: I just wanted to ask what is the logic behind the change?  I always used the Ability Scores Notes as a permanent way to record the raw stat roll and all the racial and magical adjustments, essentially explaining why the Ability Score is xx. If you were to implement this change, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of having ability scores notes? I use that field also, for, literally, Ability Score Notes. On Strength my Players put things like "Very Strong", or "Thin and weakly." On Intelligence we put Notes like "Genius-level" or "Dumb as a rock". Then, you can use a Macro that summons a character sheet field, to print a Description in the chat room. [Name] is [Intelligence Notes]. prints Biff is Dumb as a rock. Ok I changed my worker scripts back to how it was.

I found another mistake when value was 0 it was not placed as +0 but only 0 which could affect the totals tested 4 or so stats and they matched the table 29 from Players Option book, if you do see any mistakes please let me know

I changed the weight fields for gear and the coin fields to numeric fields that way we are sure no non-numeric values in there. I have also changed the movement penalties field to be two fields and populate it with Att & AC penalties but ONLY for a new character so not overwritten I have changed my worker script to now put the max weight per movement group based on STR (upper limit for ach group), this changes when strength changes  Autocalc total weight for gear has been implemented.

I tried to modify my test game (so I could look over the changes before applying it to my Spelljammer game) but I'm still getting the original Simple Sheet in the drop down for the character sheet templates; is there an additional step needed to apply the 2.0 sheet to a game?

Unfortunately they have not uploaded yet. But join my test game where i am busy making changes :) <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/3210158/JNG2DQ" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/3210158/JNG2DQ</a>

Please let me know what I can add to make the sheet more helpful

I am also totaling all gear weight and adding the weapon and gear weight together (the total is shown by the movement block) Ok so I now show penalties and weights on movement (only basic for now working 100%)

Updates should be pushed to Roll20 next tuesday if I am correct

AquaAlex said: Ok so any plan to add find traps and hide in shadows then? Because by all accounts they are still missing.

I just gotta say, nice work @aqua Alex btw.

AquaAlex said: Please let me know what I can add to make the sheet more helpful Keep it as Simple as possible. The problem with the non-Simple 2e sheet is, it's not simple so it is cumbersome. I am leery of the auto-calculators. They are troublesome if they overwrite. My Players/Characters don't rely on any of the auto-calculators in this game. A fill-in-the-blanks, similar-to-paper sheet is best (for me, my groups, and our approach to 2nd Edition D&D). For example if you've changed the Weight fields to Numeric, that's going to overwrite where I've written "SKIP" because my games I don't want Players using that field. Not a big problem in this case, and I understand why the auto-calc upgrade is requested here (by GAR and others; for purposes of quickly automatically tallying encumbrance and its effect on movement rates for games that use that option), but in principle just see what I mean, because not every DM wants the Players to do Encumbrance in a new simple game. Lots of other fields can be like that too, for different reasons. The more Attributes of a character sheet, the less Characters and Monsters you can have in the Journals before it starts lagging Roll20, starting on lower-end user's computers first. Character Sheet Attribute bloat is one of the biggest slow-down factors on Roll20. Please endeavor to keep Simple simple, while improving and streamlining the sheet code.

I agree gold, but somethigns like encumberance can easily be ignored or just enter 0 everywhere. I am not doing anything to add the penalties etc into any of the calculations for AC or to hit, etc as I agree with you each DM wants to do things differently. I am jsut tryign tomake some thigns a little less work if people want to use it :)&nbsp; The spell tab I feel has been long overdue as the current spell section just does nto feel right, but everyone can choose which one they want to use as the two sections are completely seperated. And I do not think we need to create another sheet. I also like the simple sheet over the other one

Gargamond said: Ok so any plan to add find traps and hide in shadows then? Because by all accounts they are still missing. The hide in shadows I could see, the find remove traps was a msitake in the script which i fixed so they should work now. (well as soona s they updates are pushed to Roll20, I have created pull request already

Gargamond said: I just gotta say, nice work @aqua Alex btw. Thanks&lt; i am trying to make it little more friendly where needed, but as Gold mentioned we dont want to end up with another complex unuseable sheet.

AquaAlex said: Gargamond said: I just gotta say, nice work @aqua Alex btw. Thanks&lt; i am trying to make it little more friendly where needed, but as Gold mentioned we dont want to end up with another complex unuseable sheet. Right.&nbsp; Kind of agreeing with Gold, I'm not a fan of adding a whole new tab to the sheet just for spells. I think that if the current spells section were revamped, essentially to be multiplied ten times at large, i.e. have a separate section just like the one we have now but for each spell level, it would be fine.&nbsp; The 5E sheet pretty much has this feature, but on its own tab. I think the other 2E sheet is so slow because of all the tabs it has.&nbsp; If anything, you can pretty much scrap the "Monster" tab of the simple sheet.&nbsp; I don't think it does anything mechanically, and I doubt anyone here uses it.&nbsp; Please speak up if you do.&nbsp;&nbsp; The main reason why I think the "Monster" tab is a waste is that none of the fields actually add attributes to the attributes & abilities tab.&nbsp; All my monster sheets are done on the "Character" side because I can actually manipulate them mechanically with attributes.

The only other suggestion I have at this time is the Experience section could use some simple automation.&nbsp; Such that, when you add a new class, there could be a dropdown menu which allows you to select your subclass's xp table: Fighter, Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian, Cleric/Crusader/Monk/Shaman, Psionicist, Druid, Rogue, or Wizard and your current XP value is checked against the amount needed for each level by class, and telling you what your level is in the selected class. For example, if I were to select Crusader as my class, and enter 5,500 xp in the "Total Experience" field, another field would tell me I am currently level 3, and that I need 500 more experience till I level up. Thus, you could have an automatic attribute for, say, "PriestLevel", with a "3" in the attached value field, which you say is a requirement for your new spell system.

Gargamond said: The only other suggestion I have at this time is the Experience section could use some simple automation.&nbsp; Such that, when you add a new class, there could be a dropdown menu which allows you to select your subclass's xp table: Fighter, Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian, Cleric/Crusader/Monk/Shaman, Psionicist, Druid, Rogue, or Wizard and your current XP value is checked against the amount needed for each level by class, and telling you what your level is in the selected class. For example, if I were to select Crusader as my class, and enter 5,500 xp in the "Total Experience" field, another field would tell me I am currently level 3, and that I need 500 more experience till I level up. Thus, you could have an automatic attribute for, say, "PriestLevel", with a "3" in the attached value field, which you say is a requirement for your new spell system. I was thinking about things like that let me look into it. And see what can sensibly work. WIll be ncie to be able to have multi/dual class represented better The PriestLevel and MageLevel is purely for the macos we made which uses these fields to determine range/duration etc.&nbsp;

Gargamond said: Right.&nbsp; Kind of agreeing with Gold, I'm not a fan of adding a whole new tab to the sheet just for spells. I think that if the current spells section were revamped, essentially to be multiplied ten times at large, i.e. have a separate section just like the one we have now but for each spell level, it would be fine.&nbsp; The 5E sheet pretty much has this feature, but on its own tab. The only reason I did it like this is becuase I did not want to mess with the people that already use the silly spell section and is happy with it. Maybe I should ask people if anyone has issues with me removing the current spell section and replace it with what i have in the other tab then I can add a hide spells section same as we have for the rogue skills. for non spell casters

So far so good Alex. As for spell macros, that came about an Idea of mine of using spell cards that could be played. but that idea was scrapped because the decks would take up too much space.. I use the monster sheet as it can automate init, attack, and damage for monsters...sure its not perfect but i do find it useful

Maybe I need to change the spell section (combine old and new) and then the&nbsp;XP/Level/class section and then we can look at the Monster section improving it to make it more useful?It is a shame you can not load more than one sheet in a game. Like have dedicated Monster, NPC and PC sheets so each sheet only has what is needed for that and making things lighter.

Talking with Alex, giving my feedback, voting according to my preferences. I understand this is meant to streamline for every user and not just for my games. I personally avoid "Numeric only" or Auto-calc fields. We don't use ANY of them in my game, needing to ignore Movement, XP, and some other fields that already auto-calc. Please don't make the LEVEL field at the top of the screen into an auto-calc.&nbsp; My players write words in that Level field, and we call those words into the Chat with a macro. If some people want the level calculated by XP tables, can u create a new Attribute for that ("Level-Calculated" field)? As a game-theory / value, I would like all of the Top-Of-Sheet stuff to be free form text that the Player pencils in (Name, Class, Level, Race, Kit, Alignment). None of these should be drop-downs or auto-filling.

I would like to see more in the way of animal companions.&nbsp; The current sheet only really gives you one slot for animal or familiar.&nbsp; Rangers, Druids, and Dwarf Animal Masters can have a bunch.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Gold said: Talking with Alex, giving my feedback, voting according to my preferences. I understand this is meant to streamline for every user and not just for my games. I personally avoid "Numeric only" or Auto-calc fields. We don't use ANY of them in my game, needing to ignore Movement, XP, and some other fields that already auto-calc. Please don't make the LEVEL field at the top of the screen into an auto-calc.&nbsp; My players write words in that Level field, and we call those words into the Chat with a macro. If some people want the level calculated by XP tables, can u create a new Attribute for that ("Level-Calculated" field)? As a game-theory / value, I would like all of the Top-Of-Sheet stuff to be free form text that the Player pencils in (Name, Class, Level, Race, Kit, Alignment). None of these should be drop-downs or auto-filling. I think we can do a seperate new section for dropdowns/etc so existing classes PCs will still work

Jon _. said: I would like to see more in the way of animal companions.&nbsp; The current sheet only really gives you one slot for animal or familiar.&nbsp; Rangers, Druids, and Dwarf Animal Masters can have a bunch.&nbsp;&nbsp; The AD&D 2E Simple Sheet you can add as many henchment/animal comapnions as you want.

Ok now that my last changes Version 2.0.0 is out there in the wild I am working on next changes. I am trying not to break anything for current users so I will add new stuff the the "Spell" sheet for now. Ok so adding a dropdown for Race & Alignment Then there is a repeating section to add as many Classes with a drop down for class, numeric box for Experience, numeric Box for Level Under Spells I have added two Equivalent Level boxes which makes customised macros easier to use (For a wizard or pries/druid these fields will be same as that class level but for paladin/bard it would be different) I have also added dropdown boxes for all the spheres (minor, Major, None) and schools (general, opposition, Specialist) to slect what kind of acces the PC has, this cna then be used to further refine macros to allow access to certain spells,etc. So far no worker scripts to calculate/prepopulate. But I will work on something over the next week or so. Please let me know what you think, and what you think would be useful for other people.

AquaAlex said: Ok so adding a dropdown for Race & Alignment Then there is a repeating section to add as many Classes with a drop down for class, numeric box for Experience, numeric Box for Level Say what? Please do not force Class and Alignment into a limited selection of drop-down. We need these to be free text areas accommodating notes and differences from setting to setting, DM to DM, campaign to campaign. It sounds like you are talking about the other, Complicated 2E sheet, not the 2E Simple Sheet.&nbsp; The "features" you are describing are similar to the problems of the other sheet, and why people choose to use Simple Sheet instead.

AquaAlex said: Ok now that my last changes Version 2.0.0 is out there in the wild I am working on next changes. I am trying not to break anything for current users so I will add new stuff the the "Spell" sheet for now. Ok so adding a dropdown for Race & Alignment Then there is a repeating section to add as many Classes with a drop down for class, numeric box for Experience, numeric Box for Level Under Spells I have added two Equivalent Level boxes which makes customised macros easier to use (For a wizard or pries/druid these fields will be same as that class level but for paladin/bard it would be different) I have also added dropdown boxes for all the spheres (minor, Major, None) and schools (general, opposition, Specialist) to slect what kind of acces the PC has, this cna then be used to further refine macros to allow access to certain spells,etc. So far no worker scripts to calculate/prepopulate. But I will work on something over the next week or so. Please let me know what you think, and what you think would be useful for other people. This&nbsp; should be part of the already-existing XP section.

Gold said: AquaAlex said: Ok so adding a dropdown for Race & Alignment Then there is a repeating section to add as many Classes with a drop down for class, numeric box for Experience, numeric Box for Level Say what? Please do not force Class and Alignment into a limited selection of drop-down. We need these to be free text areas accommodating notes and differences from setting to setting, DM to DM, campaign to campaign. It sounds like you are talking about the other, Complicated 2E sheet, not the 2E Simple Sheet.&nbsp; The "features" you are describing are similar to the problems of the other sheet, and why people choose to use Simple Sheet instead. Those haven't changed, buddy.&nbsp; No worries.&nbsp;

AquaAlex said: I am trying not to break anything for current users so I will add new stuff the the "Spell" sheet for now. Ok so adding a dropdown for Race & Alignment I'm understanding this statement from Alex (emphasis added by me) as --- he is putting proposed changes on the Spells tab "for now." If the changes are fine, and don't get feedback for changes, then he'd move it to the main sheet tab. @Gargamond, So I'm seeing the proposed changes to Race, Class, Alignment, currently on the spell tab screenshot, and feel concerned that those might be proposed to replace the ones at the top-of-sheet in the near future. I wouldn't want that. THIS: There are many reasons why those 3 drop-downs are problematic. The game has Alignment (which is eliminated in the proposed labeling). The game does not have Order. Many campaigns don't allow Evil to be selected for PC's. The number of Races is 50-100+ (many with names with a number of letters significantly longer than "Halfling") and many campaigns have custom ones, which would not be supported in the proposed drop-downs.

Gold said: : There are many reasons why those 3 drop-downs are problematic. The game has Alignment (which is eliminated in the proposed labeling). The game does not have Order.&nbsp; The reason I did it like this is becuase the Player's Handbook on Page 46 says Alignment has two sets of attitudes, and by allowing those to be seperated and allowing a blank option you do allow for DM's that might want to play without the concetp of L/N/C or G/N/E so any one of those two can be used or not. WIthin the boxes you still have the selection of Law, Chaos Neutral (blank) and Good, Neutral, Evil, (Blank) I basically just thought breasking alignment into the to sets as mentioned in the rules would allow for even more freedoms, and as I have stated I will not change fields in a way that existing sheets break :)

Gold I do suggest once I am done with next set of changes just export and import some of your characters and make sure it is allworking in my test game before I push the changes to Roll20. I dont want to break anything for anyone and I dont want to add too many scripts and too many tabs to make sheet confusing. SO the best way for me to add things a few people want is to place it in a seperate tab (DIV in HTML) so you can ignore it or use it :)

Thank you for reassuring us that existing fields will not be overwritten or replaced. That's an important starting point, that helps ease some of the stress from changes to a widely used sheet. The "Number of Spells Per Level" that you created is also a cool, useful chart, that doesn't look enormously bulky. In many ways this round of changes sounds more like forking a new sheet, not necessarily a continuation of Simple Sheet. Please allow me to try a different angle on expressing this position. Some users don't want more tabs added either, and also not excessive Attributes (which are bulky to load en masse ). I'm speaking for myself but also checked-in today with 2 other 2E DM's (Tyler and Jason) who use this sheet and they said preferably no new tabs + continue to emphasize free text fields. We feel Macros can be made adequately with existing Attributes. I've implored them to pop into one of these threads and express that directly to those following this discussion, as well. Tabs is one of the complaints about the Complicated 2E sheet. I felt like Alex said earlier that tabs weren't desirable and the Spells tab would be merged into the main sheet. Is that the intent here? I think that is an interesting interpretation to read that "Order" is a category of alignment in 2E from the highlighted PHB citation, but this can get into Rules debates that seems off topic for the forum. Plain evidence -- I've never seen a 2e Character Sheet with that bifurcation in the Label of the Field (not in official or unofficial print sheets, and not in any digital sheets of 2E either; of course I have seen the word "order" used in the books and graphs and explanations, but not as an Attribute Label). It sounds very cool, for a homebrew designation, maybe fork that onto a Custom Sheet for your games. Also I understand what you mean & how the word order as a noun correlates to Lawful the alignment terminology of the game. It's similar to calling Strength, "power" or "might". If anything these fields should be labeled Alignment (the 2E term that's capitalized in the headline of the screenshot PHB citation), however also we already have Free Text alignment field on the front page therefore it probably doesn't need to be added again as additional Attributes (bulk), so, back around to forking (or at least explaining and demonstrating) if there's a reason some people want that. Might help if someone could explain/demonstrate what could be done with the Alignment and Race drop-downs that would be advantageous or useful, and worth adding bulk to the sheet? That could go towards convincing users like me, of the purpose. Is this simply to auto-detect whether a Priest has Protection From Good, or Protection From Evil? I can't think of very many instances where spellcasting macros would be impacted whatsoever by knowing Lawful vs Chaotic (2e terminology). Would that be for accessing the Priestly Sphere of Chaos, Sphere of Law?&nbsp; A larger freetext box named "Spells" (Looks similar to a blank Microsoft Word Doc) (Or enlargement of the existing Spellbook text field) would serve my spellcaster sheets better than the currently-proposed drop-downs. I'd appreciate it very much if one of the Sheet Authors could improve the existing Spells section by enlarging the existing Free Text areas there. What about the one called Race? Why would that need to be something other than the existing Free Text field "Race"? Is there intent to automatically write Special Abilities or Adjust Saving Throws? DM Jason said today, we would like a Simple Sheet that is like the classic AD&D 2E 'green sheet', basically has some nice blanks that we can fill in. Good qualities for "Simple" Sheet are: Lightweight, Freeform, Flexible, Short, Clear, Unlimited, Plain, Extensible, Modular, Hideable. My definition of "Simple" Sheet would not be: Holds your hand, limits your choices, automates everything. That's not the same kind of simple. I can see how that would be simpler for some users, but maybe not for others who already rely on this sheet.

Just so you know the previous changes that Elana and me made (Worker Scripts/Roll Templates, etc) had more than doubled the size of the PC sheet and added additional "work" and it had almost no effect on load times, etc. And the previous changes I made, did it increase load times and make your sheet faster or slower? A tab is just a way of coding in HTML so whether there is a new tab that users like you can completely ignore or wehther it is all integrated it is till the ame amount of code lines (minus 2 lines for the new sheet div). So a new sheet tab still seems the best option as people that do not want to use the new fields can ignore them.

Yes, of course. It's an objective fact of Roll20 that adding Attribute fields multiplied by number of Character Journals is a leading factor contributing to lag.&nbsp; Fewer attributes is better for Simple Sheet. Tab bloat is not desirable on Simple Sheet for some existing users. Tabs are one of the main complaints about the Complicated 2E sheet alternative.