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WebRTC Video and Voice Chat Issues

Thorsten B. said: Every resource - every map, every PC and NPC character sheet. I can see how that would take some time. Do you happen to know whether that's true for archived resources as well? Instead of copying and deleting / transmogrifying, could the same effect be had by archiving the maps and NPCs that aren't need for phase N of the adventure; then restoring those needed for phase N+1 (while archiving these used for phase N), and so on? From what I recall, Archiving is literally just a way to hide a Handout / Page from the Active List and is still held with the campaign, therefore loaded with everything else. But I may be wrong on that. Thorsten B. said: For our games, we use TS3 for voice (because music and sound effects - if quality is not that important, Discord is a great choice), and leave video on for the players. Sure, the guy out in the boondocks in Iowa struggles a bit and his video feed will freeze more often than not. That's acceptable. Reconnect is always an option. He also has to wait for the map to "not be fuzzy" any more when he first loads in, because it takes time to load those graphics on his end. We can't control the bandwidth he has on his farm. Regarding voice and video itself, recently my group has used Discord for voice and roll20 in "Video Only" mode for the same reasons Thorsten states.
Nolan T. J. said: Matthew W. said: Thank you for the information Nolan. What about the issue I mentioned, where the full group of us are able to use voice and video in modules other than Tomb of Annihilation? Is this a query I should pose to the ToA bug thread? That doesn't seem like it would be related to the module in and of itself, but I'll leave it to other developers with WebRTC skills to follow up on. I have to disagree Nolan. I had no issues loading the ToA module and it is a work of art except it wont run on Video and voice while every other game does so it points to something within the game module itself. I have started a second game named plan B with bite sized chunks to run ToA and this works.
Nolan T. J. said: The existence (or absence) of our free voice and video offerings is not a stipulation of any licensing agreement. Again, we're the only company in the virtual gaming space even attempting to make this sort of technology available. Furthermore the connection issues we are currently experiencing are peer-to-peer based. We will continue to work towards finding a more comprehensive solution for voice and video on the platform. In the meanwhile, we will continue to encourage users that cannot sustain a connect between each other to make use of outside dedicated voice and video sources. With all due respect, this type of response, which has become de rigueur, is infuriating. If you don't want to accept feedback and complaints about a feature, then you should discontinue the feature or cut a deal with something like Discord to integrate it's functions. And regardless of what you do, blaming end users is not the answer. I would understand this if it was a few cranks, but this is not a small number of people on dialup or poor rural DSL connections. It's a problem experienced by virtually every game with more than 3 players and these users do not have similar difficulties with other AV solutions.
Numtini said: Nolan T. J. said: The existence (or absence) of our free voice and video offerings is not a stipulation of any licensing agreement. Again, we're the only company in the virtual gaming space even attempting to make this sort of technology available. Furthermore the connection issues we are currently experiencing are peer-to-peer based. We will continue to work towards finding a more comprehensive solution for voice and video on the platform. In the meanwhile, we will continue to encourage users that cannot sustain a connect between each other to make use of outside dedicated voice and video sources. With all due respect, this type of response, which has become de rigueur, is infuriating. If you don't want to accept feedback and complaints about a feature, then you should discontinue the feature or cut a deal with something like Discord to integrate it's functions. And regardless of what you do, blaming end users is not the answer. I would understand this if it was a few cranks, but this is not a small number of people on dialup or poor rural DSL connections. It's a problem experienced by virtually every game with more than 3 players and these users do not have similar difficulties with other AV solutions. To be honest but that's not a fair interpretation of Nolan's post. He is responding when people are inquiring into the contractual consequences, and in that context it is perfectly valid to explain it is not part of the contract. I do not see any blaming of end users in that statement? Am I annoyed with the video/voice offering currently being unreliable? Very much so. But that doesn't change the above. And for the time being discord for audio is a workaround that does the trick for me, personally. If sub-optimally.
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keithcurtis
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Well said on all points, Derk G.
Wanted to pop in and say we have some possible leads on improvement here. Timeline isn't locked down yet, but we're making some investments in WebRTC that we're optimistic can produce some positive change before year's end. 
@Numtini > then you should discontinue the feature And remove it for those of us who use it to good effect? That's a bit extreme. When you read this thread, you can see there are quite a few people who use outside voice (Discord, TS3, even Skype), and use the video feature built into roll20. Also, some workarounds for client bandwidth issues. I'm glad the roll20 devs are continuing to improve on the feature. In the meantime, if it really infuriates you that much, turn it off. The GM can just globally disable it for the entire campaign by setting "Chat Tech" to "None". Same effect as "rip the feature out of roll20", only that it still remains available for those of us who like to use it.
Thorsten B. said: @Numtini > then you should discontinue the feature And remove it for those of us who use it to good effect? That's a bit extreme. When you read this thread, you can see there are quite a few people who use outside voice (Discord, TS3, even Skype), and use the video feature built into roll20. Also, some workarounds for client bandwidth issues. I'm glad the roll20 devs are continuing to improve on the feature. In the meantime, if it really infuriates you that much, turn it off. The GM can just globally disable it for the entire campaign by setting "Chat Tech" to "None". Same effect as "rip the feature out of roll20", only that it still remains available for those of us who like to use it. Agreed Thorsten! I love the feature in my Friday game of Storm Kings Thunder, and with the idea @techiecarer gave me we have video working of Mondays now as well. I look forward to the improvements Roll20 is exploring.
This is a separate question, if anyone here knows. How many players will the video work for in an ideal situation? I have a crazy one shot idea, but it would run for 7 to 9 people. I have never had more than 6 in a game at once.
Matthew W. said: This is a separate question, if anyone here knows. How many players will the video work for in an ideal situation? I have a crazy one shot idea, but it would run for 7 to 9 people. I have never had more than 6 in a game at once. 7+ seems to be the more unstable end of the spectrum as each player is receiving and sending 6+ streams between each other. Had a game last night with 7 (including myself as GM) and ended up switching to Discord halfway through due to the video instability.
techiecarer said: Matthew W. said: This is a separate question, if anyone here knows. How many players will the video work for in an ideal situation? I have a crazy one shot idea, but it would run for 7 to 9 people. I have never had more than 6 in a game at once. 7+ seems to be the more unstable end of the spectrum as each player is receiving and sending 6+ streams between each other. Had a game last night with 7 (including myself as GM) and ended up switching to Discord halfway through due to the video instability. Thanks @techiecarer! I assumed as much. Discord went ok with the 7 people though?
Matthew W. said: techiecarer said: Matthew W. said: This is a separate question, if anyone here knows. How many players will the video work for in an ideal situation? I have a crazy one shot idea, but it would run for 7 to 9 people. I have never had more than 6 in a game at once. 7+ seems to be the more unstable end of the spectrum as each player is receiving and sending 6+ streams between each other. Had a game last night with 7 (including myself as GM) and ended up switching to Discord halfway through due to the video instability. Thanks @techiecarer! I assumed as much. Discord went ok with the 7 people though? Worked perfectly fine for the remainder of the session that we used it for (1hr30 out of a 3hr session). Will be planning to use it the whole time next week to see if it still works as well.
techiecarer said: Matthew W. said: techiecarer said: Matthew W. said: This is a separate question, if anyone here knows. How many players will the video work for in an ideal situation? I have a crazy one shot idea, but it would run for 7 to 9 people. I have never had more than 6 in a game at once. 7+ seems to be the more unstable end of the spectrum as each player is receiving and sending 6+ streams between each other. Had a game last night with 7 (including myself as GM) and ended up switching to Discord halfway through due to the video instability. Thanks @techiecarer! I assumed as much. Discord went ok with the 7 people though? Worked perfectly fine for the remainder of the session that we used it for (1hr30 out of a 3hr session). Will be planning to use it the whole time next week to see if it still works as well. Please let me know what happens! One of my groups is considering the switch.
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Karl V.
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Very pleased with the discord video chat feature. Have been using it since it launched. It has some way to go with camera compatibility (some cameras flat out doesn't work), but it is stable and low bandwidth requirements.
Matthew W. said: techiecarer said: Matthew W. said: techiecarer said: Matthew W. said: This is a separate question, if anyone here knows. How many players will the video work for in an ideal situation? I have a crazy one shot idea, but it would run for 7 to 9 people. I have never had more than 6 in a game at once. 7+ seems to be the more unstable end of the spectrum as each player is receiving and sending 6+ streams between each other. Had a game last night with 7 (including myself as GM) and ended up switching to Discord halfway through due to the video instability. Thanks @techiecarer! I assumed as much. Discord went ok with the 7 people though? Worked perfectly fine for the remainder of the session that we used it for (1hr30 out of a 3hr session). Will be planning to use it the whole time next week to see if it still works as well. Please let me know what happens! One of my groups is considering the switch. Just as an update as you asked, had a 3 hour session on Wednesday with Discord for voice and video with no issues whatsoever. Only thing I would mention is that Discord has a minimum window size, so people with only one monitor and low resolution might not be able to see the cameras and roll20 at the same time.
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keithcurtis
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techiecarer said: Just as an update as you asked, had a 3 hour session on Wednesday with Discord for voice and video with no issues whatsoever. Only thing I would mention is that Discord has a minimum window size, so people with only one monitor and low resolution might not be able to see the cameras and roll20 at the same time. Not quite understanding this. Why does Discord's window size matter? Isn't it an audio-only interface?
keithcurtis said: techiecarer said: Just as an update as you asked, had a 3 hour session on Wednesday with Discord for voice and video with no issues whatsoever. Only thing I would mention is that Discord has a minimum window size, so people with only one monitor and low resolution might not be able to see the cameras and roll20 at the same time. Not quite understanding this. Why does Discord's window size matter? Isn't it an audio-only interface? Not anymore - they've pushed video.
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keithcurtis
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Gozer the Gozerian said: keithcurtis said: techiecarer said: Just as an update as you asked, had a 3 hour session on Wednesday with Discord for voice and video with no issues whatsoever. Only thing I would mention is that Discord has a minimum window size, so people with only one monitor and low resolution might not be able to see the cameras and roll20 at the same time. Not quite understanding this. Why does Discord's window size matter? Isn't it an audio-only interface? Not anymore - they've pushed video. Good to know. I didn't see anything about it on their website.
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keithcurtis
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Yeah, it's nowhere on their front or feature page, but you can find it by searching "video" in help. You think they'd make a bigger deal of it. I'll look into it. Skype is a big processor hog.
If you use the Discord app it was in the patch-notes window that pops up when you turn it on after an update. The last few months they've rolled it out to a percentage of accounts and then finally the last update said everyone had access. 
Has anyone had success with using Roll20 audio only?
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keithcurtis
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Anecdotally, there are many groups that do so.
I'm sure there are, as there are groups successfully using video and audio completely within Roll20. But none of the groups I am in, as player or DM, have had a successful A/V experience within Roll20. I have never used just audio or just video in Roll20, with an external app filling the other role. We don't use video anyway so I'm thinking of trying audio only in Roll20 as Discord is giving us issues more increasingly in more than 1 game.
Agreed Doug! We have been using video in Roll20 and audio in Discord and we have been getting robo-voice and the need to disconnect/reconnect to fix issues more frequently as well. One of my groups is thinking about trying the whole thing in Discord to see if maybe that helps... Not sure it will, but if the attempt happens I will drop an update in here for everyone. 
I can report, at least for me, that I am still having issues specifically with Chrome and my C920 Logitech (the 5fps issues).  On FireFox the camera works, but I then end up getting cam freezes and the players have to reconnect.  Its seemingly at random. Might need to see about discord video at this point :(
I wasn't having any issues before, but today when my players and I came on to play my microphone settings were completely messed up. I join the game, and I'm basically permanently muted. When I initially join, the volume indicator for my sound broadcasting displays like I'm muted despite not having the speech bubble with the x in the upper left corner of my video feed (which I'm assuming is supposed to be a cue in to being muted in case one forgot they'd done so). When I click to mute it, the speech bubble icon pops up. The volume indicator displays like I should be broadcasting sound, but I'm still muted. I've updated my browser (chrome), cleared my cache... ect. Everything suggested and nothing fixes it. It's like this in every game I have on the site. I know because one of my players from the game I held today has another she's setting up that she was having me help her with. We joined into that one to see if it was just the one game, but I had the same issue there.
Matthew W. said: I wasn't having any issues before, but today when my players and I came on to play my microphone settings were completely messed up. I join the game, and I'm basically permanently muted. When I initially join, the volume indicator for my sound broadcasting displays like I'm muted despite not having the speech bubble with the x in the upper left corner of my video feed (which I'm assuming is supposed to be a cue in to being muted in case one forgot they'd done so). When I click to mute it, the speech bubble icon pops up. The volume indicator displays like I should be broadcasting sound, but I'm still muted. I've updated my browser (chrome), cleared my cache... ect. Everything suggested and nothing fixes it. It's like this in every game I have on the site. I know because one of my players from the game I held today has another she's setting up that she was having me help her with. We joined into that one to see if it was just the one game, but I had the same issue there. I had the same experience last night and was also unable to resolve it using the standard fixes, both for Chrome and Firefox Quantum. Did anything change in the last week? I haven't had any audio issues for several months before this.
I'm having the same problem as Azhmodai and Matthew W..  I have no idea what to do and it's a huge pain.
My group finished up our game and moved onto our next adventure. Ever since we started a new game, constant issues with every player. We all have gone through the FAQ and technical troubleshooting steps multiple times. It can't be anything on our end anymore. None of the audio or video works for the game, and I know at least for me my connection has been terrrble as well. 
An update: we are fairly confident that in the next sixty days we will be making a substantial update to our WebRTC capabilities.  We've sat down with an external consulting group and begun the process of making changes. We appreciate the patience shown by those who've had to rely on outside voice-and-video solutions this past year, and are looking forward to a more broadly capable system reaching you all soon.
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Silvyre
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That's great to hear. I'm really looking forward to seeing what's to come!
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keithcurtis
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Good move, Nolan. I eagerly await the results!
Thank you Nolan. I really must say broken WebRTC has been disappointingly frustrating. Looking forward to seeing it.
Hooray!  I'm also happy to hear that Roll20 is taking this seriously.
I'm very excited to hear about improvements! I actually came in here to check if you'd already pushed some, because for the first time since the beginning of the year we've been able to use voice&video without issues over the past two weeks. We had basically given up, but ran one-shots in two new (separate) games the past two weeks and decided to try the built-in video again. It worked perfectly and reminded me just how much better the integrated experience is, so any efforts towards improving the reliability of this for everyone are greatly appreciated by the people I play with!
Great news Nolan. This feature has been broken long enough.
Thank you! I too look forward to only having Roll20 to facilitate a session rather than Roll20 and Hangouts. Fingers crossed!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I'm not sure if this is the place to go or if anyone has experience with this but here goes:  The past 2 weeks I have been unable to hear  the other players in roll20 when using chrome. I can see their video fine, and they can hear ME, but I can't hear them. I can, however, hear whatever is playing on the jukebox in game.  I've cleared cache & cookies in chrome, and I haven't adjusted ANY settings within chrome from before this happened. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? I have several players who are deeply resistant to new software and trying to talk them into using discord is like pulling teeth. If I use firefox I can hear them fine, but I have to refresh the page every 10 minutes or so because it will lose p2p connection with someone. That's not really feasible when you're running a dungeon with 4 or 5 monster types plus npc character sheets.
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Brian C.
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Discord has a web page option where you do not need to install software.
Our group used it for the first time since TokBox left, and it worked quite well, only a DM and 4 players and voice only, pretty clear sound...
I cannot broadcast video on either Chrome or Firefox anymore. It used to work, off and on, but now nothing. I went through all of the troubleshooting, everything is on and allowed and I'm not an idiot with windows. I don't really even expect to get this resolved because, honestly, I've never had the website work 100% with our entire group since we started playing. I'm more doing this to complain because its frustrating and I'm waiting on my players.
For those of you who have not seen it. Steve K. posted a wonderful response in this week's  Developer Spotlight with regards to the current state of the WebRTC integration and what Roll20 is doing to resolve these issues.
Kyle G. said: For those of you who have not seen it. Steve K. posted a wonderful response in this week's  Developer Spotlight with regards to the current state of the WebRTC integration and what Roll20 is doing to resolve these issues. Thanks for posting - good to hear.  We're an "Audio Only" bunch here, and just gave up about a year ago.  We've used Hangouts, but that only works so-so as well.  Just for the record, US here with about 0.6MB upload speed - that seems much more then 'norm' than might be inferred from the Spotlight post.
Thomas M. said: Just for the record, US here with about 0.6MB upload speed - that seems much more then 'norm' than might be inferred from the Spotlight post. I assume Steve is quoting the average US wide figures, which is currently 22.79Mbps according to reports on Speedtest <a href="http://www.speedtest.net/reports/united-states/#fixed" rel="nofollow">http://www.speedtest.net/reports/united-states/#fixed</a>
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Ziechael
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Claude B. said: Description of problem: I can't hear anyone. They are all broadcasting and talking, and they can hear me, but I can't hear them. I receive video like I should and hear other site sounds just fine (chat notifications, jukebox, etc). Reproduction: Simply log into a game with people, can't hear a sound Using: Google Chrome Version 62.0.3202.94 (Official Build) (64-bit) on Windows 7 Tried: Clearing cache, reconnecting, disabled all extensions, rebooted. None of these worked This is the log
I am having the same issues. Description of problem: I can't hear anyone. They are all broadcasting and talking, and they can hear me, but I can't hear them. I receive video like I should and hear other site sounds just fine (chat notifications, jukebox, etc). Reproduction: Simply log into a game with people, can't hear a sound Using: Google Chrome Version&nbsp;Version 63.0.3239.84 (Official Build) (64-bit)&nbsp;on Windows 10 Tried: Clearing cache, reconnecting, disabled all extensions, rebooted. None of these worked
I have two players who had the same issue that Steve and Claude described. Apparently it has to do with Roll20 voice being sent on the "digital channel" instead of the "speaker channel" and Chrome does not allow you to change audio sources per tab. But there is a Chrome extension that allows you to do that, that helped my players.&nbsp; I hope the Dev-Team is aware of this issue, I think it might be separate from the other A/V trouble we had and it might be related to Chrome specifically.
Philipp C. said: I have two players who had the same issue that Steve and Claude described. Apparently it has to do with Roll20 voice being sent on the "digital channel" instead of the "speaker channel" and Chrome does not allow you to change audio sources per tab. But there is a Chrome extension that allows you to do that, that helped my players.&nbsp; I hope the Dev-Team is aware of this issue, I think it might be separate from the other A/V trouble we had and it might be related to Chrome specifically. What extension is it? I could really use a temporary fix if nothing else.