Dynamic Lighting - Updates, Bugs, & Feedback

Another night where DL lag made it so bad I had to turn it off. Fortunately the party has light sources and Darkvision out the wazoo but still annoying. Only started a few weeks ago…

After converting everything over to UDL when I delete a token that had sight or emitted light that sight or light remains after the token is gone. I suspect this only happens when a token and map were previously LDL and were converted with the tokens on the map at the time of conversion. Now I have a bunch of maps with light sources I can't move or get rid of.

Titus said: Another night where DL lag made it so bad I had to turn it off. Fortunately the party has light sources and Darkvision out the wazoo but still annoying. Only started a few weeks ago… Yup - lag was so bad last night character sheets were taking 20+ seconds to load, 10+ seconds to load the token mini-menu. So trying to apply a marker or modify a token's HP was its own infuriating mini-game - do I have the patience for it to fully load before clicking somewhere else?  Generally not as I was trying to actually run the game at the same time so I had to try to remember to apply conditions or reduce HP values in the little lulls in-between each PC's turn. -Adam

Titus, Craig, Adam Caramon -  I've sent DMs to each of you individually, but I want to post publicly to capture anyone else who is having issues. For any of the players in your group, answers to these questions would be very helpful. Sending via private message to me, it would help diagnose the issue significantly. Operating System Browser Display Adapter (GPU manufacture and model) if possible Is Hardware Acceleration on? Please send the output from webglreport.com Does restarting your browser solve the problem (at least temporarily)? Does restarting your computer solve the problem (at least temporarily)?

Sean G. said: The link to the dynamic lighting portal in the first post of this thread seems to now be broken. And to confirm, from the patch notes for the 8th, translucent tokens in explorer mode has been re-classified as a feature? The Dynamic Lighting portal is inaccessible right now. I'm working with the vendor to resolve currently. The fix on the 8th was to make translucency consistent. Tokens that are controlled by one or more users are not translucent. Tokens that are not  controlled by any players have translucency. This has been done with the intent to make the tokens that are interacted with the most stand out, while not overwhelming the GM's view.

Can't say I like that behavior. I've never felt overwhelmed by the number of tokens, and the translucency only makes the interface more confusing, not less, since the portraits are now cluttered by background details. So in order to make monsters opaque, they need to be specifically controlled by the gm and have vision turned on? Tokens with vision on that are controlled by a player only still appear translucent to me.

I have to agree. I depend on translucency to indicate that a token is on the GM layer; having tokens on other layers also be translucent is confusing. So in order to make monsters opaque, they need to be specifically controlled by the gm and have vision turned on? I really hope this turns out not to be the case, or that this can be changed, because turning off vision for monsters and NPCs is the primary way that I minimize lag.

UDL is not supposed to be as impacted by the number of tokens with vision as LDL was. I turn it off because it is displayed all the time for the GM, instead of just while using Ctrl-L. A preponderance of tokens with night vision in a dark room makes the room look as if it is filled with blazing light. Confusing.

Kenton said: Sean G. said: The link to the dynamic lighting portal in the first post of this thread seems to now be broken. And to confirm, from the patch notes for the 8th, translucent tokens in explorer mode has been re-classified as a feature? The Dynamic Lighting portal is inaccessible right now. I'm working with the vendor to resolve currently. The fix on the 8th was to make translucency consistent. Tokens that are controlled by one or more users are not translucent. Tokens that are not  controlled by any players have translucency. This has been done with the intent to make the tokens that are interacted with the most stand out, while not overwhelming the GM's view. As far as I can tell - there are two parts to the current behavior: 1) Tokens with vision turned on that are specifically controlled by the person viewing the map are brought to the front and ignore lighting effects. Otherwise they keep their z-order and get lit as if they were on the map layer. I understand this and generally like the way this works for players.  Tokens for characters the player control are highlighted, and everything and everyone else is lit the way it would be as seen by their character(s).  The vision requirement is a bit annoying since it makes it hard to use that as an easy way to handle temporary blindness, but it works as long as I know it's a thing. As a GM, I don't want to control any tokens, and I definitely don't want to give all of my 50 goblins vision, but I can also see everything on the map, so having all the tokens being lit by ambient light works for me - I don't need any in particular to be highlighted. 2) In Explorer Mode - tokens that would be affected by lighting from the above are additionally translucent. This doesn't make any sense.  Players don't control anything other than their own token, so they just see everything on the token layer as weirdly translucent and harder to see than it should be - especially at the edges of their vision. And again, as a GM I don't want to control any tokens, and don't want vision enabled for all my NPCs and creatures.  So *every* token is translucent for me for some reason.  I'd hang out on the map layer if I wanted that. ---- So what exactly changed? - I believe the amount of translucency used to be related to the value of the "GM Darkness Opacity" slider, and it no longer seems to be - so that's nice. - And it also looks like the translucence thing was only for the GM before, whereas now it seems to also affect players?  That's way worse.  I'd like them to actually be able to see things that aren't them. Assuming my memory and 10 minutes of playing around with things is correct, I *guess* that's more consistent - but I don't like the explorer mode behavior at all. 

Oh! - Is the translucence how you keep players from seeing tokens in explored but not currently visible areas in Explorer Mode?  Was trying to fix that what broke the other thing? If so, I suppose this is better.

Sarah Rebecca Cohen said: I have to agree. I depend on translucency to indicate that a token is on the GM layer; having tokens on other layers also be translucent is confusing. This.

Kenton said: Titus, Craig, Adam Caramon -  I've sent DMs to each of you individually, but I want to post publicly to capture anyone else who is having issues. For any of the players in your group, answers to these questions would be very helpful. Sending via private message to me, it would help diagnose the issue significantly. Operating System Browser Display Adapter (GPU manufacture and model) if possible Is Hardware Acceleration on? Please send the output from webglreport.com Does restarting your browser solve the problem (at least temporarily)? Does restarting your computer solve the problem (at least temporarily)? Hi Kenton, I've replied to your PM with my specifics, but I want to point out two things to hopefully help with this exercise: When I am experiencing terrible lag, the entire group is also experiencing terrible lag.  We have group jokes about it.  Two nights ago I was unable to even drag images onto the map - the lag was so bad they just never appeared (I half-expect that when I log into that game next I will find a couple of images in strange places because of this issue.)  I will call for a skill check or an attack roll and players will say, "Well, I clicked it," as we're all waiting for it to appear.  So while I will provide whatever details your developers need to try to analyze this problem, I struggle to see how this could be an individual user issue.  If it was just me lagging, or just some of the group but not the whole group, that would stick out like a sore thumb. While I am not familiar with the webglreport.com website, I did notice that the display adapter it reports I have for Renderer and Unmasked Renderer does not match the actual Display adapter I have (what is listed in Windows Device Manager) - the model numbers don't match.  I don't know if that is of any significance, but figured I would point it out. -Adam

My players had no lag. After responding to Kenton’s DM I turned Hardware Acceleration off and on again (hello IT Crowd!) and also realized the 10 monsters on the map had vision on, so turned those off. It seemed to fix it but won’t know for 100% until next session…

So my players and I started to experience this last week (9/12) on our dungeon.  When one of my players joined the session the whole map revealed itself to all the players. My Player Rob experienced this on his game from the prior Monday (9/6) in another game. Today, on a new Map it did it again.. When Rob joined.   We tried turning off Hardware acceleration, nothing changed. I copied the map and turned off Dynamic Lighting, and turned on fog of war. It works, but that is the whole reason I subscribed as the Dynamic lighting makes things so much easier.  Reveal area for Fog of War takes too much time versus just deleting the door on they lighting layer.  I don't do anything fancy.  I put vision on the players tokens, and set the walls for dynamic lighting. I use Chrome, on a brand new PC.

I DM'ed a session tonight using UDL where after a very short while two of the 5 players were able to see the entire map.   Very frustrating for all.  There were some lag issues as well, but that's a secondary concern.  We've had this same problem at times in the past.  FWIW I'm running the game in Chrome on an iMac.  The campaign is Dragon Heist with some DotMM stuff piped in via transmogrification.  Is there a solution? Looks like I'll switch off and go with fog of war, like Embrodak above.

I've been having major problems with the new dynamic lightning system ever since the "big" update and have been trying to get help from everywhere with little to no luck. I saw that Kenton said to PM him but its almost been a week since I did with no response so I'm posting it here. The problems been so bad that I (the dm) haven't been able to play a single game with it because I can't even turn it on without it either completely crashing my chrome (and even my computer once or twice with a memory error) or roll20 completely bricking itself (the entirety of chrome lags then all i can see is a corner of the map extremely zoomed in and nothing else unless i manually do ctrl and - or + to zoom out, at which point none of the lighting features work). As for what you asked: -I run off Windows 10 -I am using Chrome, but have tried other browsers (everything from Opera to Edge to Firefox) and none of them have had any better results -I don't have a GPU as I don't have the funds to spend hundreds of dollars on one, so I use the built-in one (My cpu one) -I've tried with both Hardware Acceleration on and off and it's only slightly better when off, but then I suffer weird graphical issues (Giant parts of the map will be covered in flashing purple) -I don't know exactly what you want me to pull from WebGL Report -Restarting browser only puts the map in question into an infinite loading loop -Restarting the computer does absolutely nothing to help (Nor does shutting down literally every program not needed besides chrome) -WebGL report says that my computer/browser supports everything (Though WebGL 2 seems to be a little bipolar, sometimes it says its all good, then out of nowhere it says that it must disabled then snaps back to be perfectly fine) I really hope we can find a fix to this as it was working fine as a daisy for the big update, now its completely unusable so I'm forced to use the Legacy Lighting system which suffers 0 problems what so ever. As one last thing to say, I have already tried to update all my video drivers. And we did try to use it last session (I decided I could suffered for the greater good) and it lagged the same if not worse for all them (Or atleast the 1 or 2 that didn't get stuck in the infinite load). I would also like to state that i've been using Dynamic Lightning for the better part of almost 5 years so I understand its workings (like to only use line tool for blocking light, and to never give monsters sight)

hi all, Don't know if this is a Lighting problem, but as it only seems to happen when the UDL is turned on, i might think that it is. :) When i use an animated background and click the screen (or select a token) it leave sort of a still shadow image on top. This ONLY happens when the animated image is on the map layer. On the token layer it does not leave image.  Is this a bug or a feature :) edit: video and picture of shadow

I had similar issues as Embrodak and Ron R. above with a game I ran on 9/19. One of my players would suddenly be able to see the entire map after moving their token. I was able to band-aid the situation by resetting the explorable darkness, but it happened several times for that player during that game.

Lag was so incredibly bad tonight (6 PM EST - 10 PM EST) that UDL was unusable.  I had to turn it off and resort to fog of war just to be able to play the session.  Once UDL was turned off it went from a 7-10 second lag to perhaps a 1 second lag.  As in, clicking on a token to try to change HP would take 7-10 seconds for the menu to pop-up before I could change the HP value. I assume there is some kind of server health/analytics/metrics that you can run to see how things were performing during this time period?  Might be worth looking into to see what was happening.  When I was working on design stuff on my own earlier in the day, I had only the typical 1-2 second lag that always seems to accompany Roll20 (i.e., the amount of lag I am accustom to dealing with using Roll20.) At this point I'm considering reverting back to LDL as most of the posts I see about people using it indicate they have no trouble (and I don't recall having lag remotely close to what I am experiencing now when I used LDL previously.) -Adam Edit to add: Tried a browser refresh, restart - no help. Tried a PC restart - no help.

Still getting major UDL issues in the evenings.&nbsp; I took some time to record a video demonstrating the issues: <a href="https://youtu.be/A8Cfd_SW1IU" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/A8Cfd_SW1IU</a> If there are other things I can check to try to resolve these UDL problems, let me know.&nbsp; Otherwise it seems the best bet for reliable sessions for my players is to revert back to LDL until these issues are fixed. -Adam

Adam Caramon said: Still getting major UDL issues in the evenings.&nbsp; I took some time to record a video demonstrating the issues: <a href="https://youtu.be/A8Cfd_SW1IU" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/A8Cfd_SW1IU</a> If there are other things I can check to try to resolve these UDL problems, let me know.&nbsp; Otherwise it seems the best bet for reliable sessions for my players is to revert back to LDL until these issues are fixed. -Adam Out of curiosity - does turning off explorer mode or disabling any API scripts you might be running help?

Sean G. said: Adam Caramon said: Still getting major UDL issues in the evenings.&nbsp; I took some time to record a video demonstrating the issues: <a href="https://youtu.be/A8Cfd_SW1IU" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/A8Cfd_SW1IU</a> If there are other things I can check to try to resolve these UDL problems, let me know.&nbsp; Otherwise it seems the best bet for reliable sessions for my players is to revert back to LDL until these issues are fixed. -Adam Out of curiosity - does turning off explorer mode or disabling any API scripts you might be running help? I can try to test that in the evening next week.&nbsp; Right now (Saturday morning) with all of the same settings on, everything works fine with UDL. -Adam

Really good video, well-presented. I do not get the same behavior that you are displaying, so while it may likely be a Roll20 issue, it still might be something to do with the interaction between local and remote. Some questions (and please pardon if you've answered before, my memory is not great): 1) Same issues with hardware acceleration switched off ? 2) How many tokens have sight enabled? (I have been told this is a non-issue, but trying to be thorough) 3) Do you experience the issues on a brand new game, or a copy of your existing game? (Maybe an issue with the shard it is hosted on?) 4) Try turning off the Paladin Aura script (assuming that's the one that polls the game after every move to reassign saving throw bonuses).

keithcurtis said: Really good video, well-presented. I do not get the same behavior that you are displaying, so while it may likely be a Roll20 issue, it still might be something to do with the interaction between local and remote. Some questions (and please pardon if you've answered before, my memory is not great): 1) Same issues with hardware acceleration switched off ? 2) How many tokens have sight enabled? (I have been told this is a non-issue, but trying to be thorough) 3) Do you experience the issues on a brand new game, or a copy of your existing game? (Maybe an issue with the shard it is hosted on?) 4) Try turning off the Paladin Aura script (assuming that's the one that polls the game after every move to reassign saving throw bonuses). Yes, same with hardware acceleration turned off. PCs only - so 6? Haven't tested this out yet - I will attempt to do so next week in the evening.&nbsp; But if this is the case, that would mean that is something beyond my control (i.e. I don't get to choose which shard I am on.) I will give this a try as well next week.&nbsp; For what it is worth, I have used this script for the last two campaigns and didn't have any issues that I can recall. I suspect the issue is #3 or something similar as I have tried to rule out issues on my end.&nbsp; I would hope Pro subscription players are getting priority for lower usage or lower-lag shards but I don't know that those type of details are shared with the user base. -Adam

Regarding shard: this is unlikely to be the problem as I understand it, the games are pretty well-distributed these days. But it is a possibility, and copying your game will almost certainly move it to a new shard (I have migrated my own campaign in the past, and it's an inconvenience, but a minor one). Copying it may also resolve other issues besides shard location: If the game has developed corruption for whatever reason, for example. Re-adding the scripts can sometimes point out where a conflict is re-occurring.

keithcurtis said: Regarding shard: this is unlikely to be the problem as I understand it, the games are pretty well-distributed these days. But it is a possibility, and copying your game will almost certainly move it to a new shard (I have migrated my own campaign in the past, and it's an inconvenience, but a minor one). Copying it may also resolve other issues besides shard location: If the game has developed corruption for whatever reason, for example. Re-adding the scripts can sometimes point out where a conflict is re-occurring. I'll certainly give this a try next week to see if it resolves my issue - if disabling all of the scripts solves the problem them I will re-enable them one at a time and see when the error occurs to isolate the specific script that is causing issues.&nbsp; I will also try turning off Explorer mode to see if that has any impact. If neither of those resolves the problems, then I will try to copy the game and see if that fixes the issue.&nbsp; If it does, then that would seem to point to an issue on Roll20's side.&nbsp; If it does not resolve the issue, then I'd be back to square one. Overall, as I have experienced UDL issues only at certain times of the day, I suspect that the issue can't be a setting on my side, otherwise I would expect to always experience problems with UDL.&nbsp; And if I am having these issues, I have to imagine some other users are having them as well (most likely those that play at the same time of the day - weekday evenings EST.)&nbsp; This past Wednesday was the worst I have seen in a while - I had to turn UDL off as it was unplayable.&nbsp; The next day (Thursday) I am a PC rather than the DM but the DM of the game (who also uses UDL) mentioned that the game was laggier than usual. -Adam

My suspicion is somewhere in between. Since there isn't a rash of reports of the issue, it wouldn't seem to be entirely server-side either. My guess is that something in the overall synergy between your end and Roll20's end is not cooperating. I have experienced lag like you describe, but it was nearly two years ago, when lag was a very common report. I have not had any appreciable lag difference between LDL and UDL since I made the switch, though one of my players did. He fixed it by switching to Edge(!). If Explorable darkness appears to be the culprit, I could suggest using&nbsp; Light Crumbs &nbsp;if you want to continue using UDL otherwise. I never used "Advanced Dynamic Lighting" under LDL, anyway, since I hated the paradigm of revealing by square. There have been big improvements in UDL this year; hopefully they are still working on optimization and lag.

I will be one of the first to say that the legacy lighting system is 100% better than the new one. Ever since this psuedo push for the new system, the new lighting system is unstable, unpredictable, and frankly becoming unacceptable.&nbsp; Main issue: You can't set the vision of tokens for certain feet unless they have darkvision (nightvision). This all or nothing approach to lighting is unusable for maps with either theoretical low light or impeded vision. You can either see ALL of the map or NONE of the map... no in between. The old system was simple, you set the boundary of light that they can see and prevent others from seeing them as a "light source". How the "new" or "improved" system does not have this is beyond me. The legacy lighting worked just fine and in fact was amazing. The "new" lighting has really just made things confusing and near unusable. This in addition to tokens being able to push through boundaries, lines of sight not actually being lines of sight (was able to draw a straight line from one token to another with no lighting boundary in between and the player still couldn't see), and many other issues.&nbsp; Ill say it and stand by it... im begging you not to get rid of the legacy lighting. I know it seems to be a pet project to update the system, but it has only caused issues.

keithcurtis said: My suspicion is somewhere in between. Since there isn't a rash of reports of the issue, it wouldn't seem to be entirely server-side either. My guess is that something in the overall synergy between your end and Roll20's end is not cooperating. I have experienced lag like you describe, but it was nearly two years ago, when lag was a very common report. I have not had any appreciable lag difference between LDL and UDL since I made the switch, though one of my players did. He fixed it by switching to Edge(!). If Explorable darkness appears to be the culprit, I could suggest using&nbsp; Light Crumbs &nbsp;if you want to continue using UDL otherwise. I never used "Advanced Dynamic Lighting" under LDL, anyway, since I hated the paradigm of revealing by square. There have been big improvements in UDL this year; hopefully they are still working on optimization and lag. Logged into tonight's game - UDL lag super bad.&nbsp; Testing steps: Turned UDL off - no lag. Turned it back on - terrible lag. Turned off Explorer mode - terrible lag. Created a copy of my game (which of course does not bring over API scripts) so I'm testing sans any scripts.&nbsp; Still terrible UDL lag. Created a brand new blank game - turned on UDL, lag not bad. Added one token and gave it vision + night vision + nocturnal night vision effect - terrible UDL lag. Turned off nocturnal night vision effect - terrible lag. Turned off dark vision - terrible lag. Turned off vision on the token - no lag. So it looks like I can use UDL as long as I don't need any tokens to have vision.&nbsp; Back to LDL for me. -Adam

Noticing an issue in multiple games where one player out of 5 or 6 cant see on the maps set with the new dynamic lighting. I've noticed in order to fix this issue I've had to turn the dynamic lighting off / save it. then re open the map and turn the dynamic lighting back on. then the players can see again.&nbsp; Can we get some people to look into this? I apologize if this has been brought up in the 4 pages of text, I admittedly didn't read through all the posts. Thanks!

In another round of testing, I switched browsers to Chrome, and I am not experiencing any lag.&nbsp; Hopefully there is a solution that would allow me to use Firefox instead but at least it is a work around for now. -Adam

So I was going to ask if they'd sorted UDL out yet or not... I am seeing the answer is a resounding 'no.'

I started a new campaign, this time with UDL. Once again, my player using an ipad couldn't see much. It seems that global illumination is ok, but as for other light sources, he only sees light at the position of the tokens emitting light, the rest is full black, as if the distance for bright light was 0. So I had to fall back on LDL, and I must say it doesn't help with the way the LDL settings have been hidden: each time I had to re-open that section, and that is really no fun to do when in a hurry. Could you please make them a little more accessible. At least until UDL is ready?

Hello all, I also have one player who can see through UDL walls.&nbsp; I'm looking through the forums for the first time for this issue, and I am a bit lost.&nbsp; Is there a definitive guide of steps to check on her machine to test and report the situation? While I'm here asking, is it better to make one big long wall with many many bends (like just following the outline of each dungeon corridor) or is it better to make a few turns/segments, "finalize," then start with a new section of light blocking? Also, using UDL, should my creature tokens have sight on, or off?

We have a Dynamic Lighting Checklist &nbsp;over on the Help Center. That's been very helpful for many folks on the various settings and best practices. To the question of vision for creature/enemies, the thing to keep in mind is that your GM view has to render everything with vision. If you reduce the number of items that have vision through your GM view, your computer would have less to render.

I am having an issue with bright light in UDL.&nbsp; I use universal tokens that emit bright light in all maps that need it (see image 1 below).&nbsp; The rock is supposed to emit 500 feet of bright light.&nbsp; I have updated the settings on all of these, but the light is only showing for me (as the GM) if there is at least one token on the map with vision (see image 2 below).&nbsp; Is there a way that I can be able to see the light without this so I don't bog down my games with giving all my light tokens vision?

Josh M. said: I am having an issue with bright light in UDL.&nbsp; I use universal tokens that emit bright light in all maps that need it (see image 1 below).&nbsp; The rock is supposed to emit 500 feet of bright light.&nbsp; I have updated the settings on all of these, but the light is only showing for me (as the GM) if there is at least one token on the map with vision (see image 2 below).&nbsp; Is there a way that I can be able to see the light without this so I don't bog down my games with giving all my light tokens vision? &lt;image&gt; Not really, no.&nbsp; You need *something* with vision to be able to see the light.&nbsp; It doesn't have to be your light sources though.&nbsp; Just stick one of your player tokens on there to see what they'll see. I usually just build my maps with dynamic lighting turned off so that I can see what I'm doing.&nbsp; Then turn lighting on and stick my player tokens on the map and move them around a bit with ctrl-l to see what it'll look like for them as they move around the map.

Embrodak said: So my players and I started to experience this last week (9/12) on our dungeon.&nbsp; When one of my players joined the session the whole map revealed itself to all the players. My Player Rob experienced this on his game from the prior Monday (9/6) in another game. Today, on a new Map it did it again.. When Rob joined.&nbsp; &nbsp;We tried turning off Hardware acceleration, nothing changed. I copied the map and turned off Dynamic Lighting, and turned on fog of war. It works, but that is the whole reason I subscribed as the Dynamic lighting makes things so much easier.&nbsp; Reveal area for Fog of War takes too much time versus just deleting the door on they lighting layer.&nbsp; I don't do anything fancy.&nbsp; I put vision on the players tokens, and set the walls for dynamic lighting. I use Chrome, on a brand new PC. Same thing happened to me as well where the whole map was revealed to one of my players. I am also having major lag when i never had lag before.&nbsp; I am honestly thinking&nbsp; of switching to Foundry VTT.

Kenton said: We have a Dynamic Lighting Checklist &nbsp;over on the Help Center. That's been very helpful for many folks on the various settings and best practices. To the question of vision for creature/enemies, the thing to keep in mind is that your GM view has to render everything with vision. If you reduce the number of items that have vision through your GM view, your computer would have less to render. One of players keeps seeing the entire map when they log on. Is this a known issue? Does it only happen with Chrome? AS of a few weeks ago, I am experiencing major lag while playing and this has never happened before. Is it just Chrome? I am going to try Firefox instead of Chrome.&nbsp; Any other suggestions?

Like so many others, we just are continuing to have issues with dynamic lighting. Last night one of my players just suddenly had the entire map revealed. Another was able to completely walk through walls. Lots of lag moving tokens around. Lots of minor visual glitches, such as the ruler being unreadable. Even with a relatively small number of tokens on the map this just doesn't work very well. I keep trying, but this is just sad. It clearly wasn't ready to get pushed out on all of us, and still isn't really ready for primetime. Meanwhile other fundamental features that people are begging for get ignored for years.

Alright, so just finished setting up a NEW map with UDL.&nbsp; Things seem to be working, but map performance is bad.&nbsp; I'm concerned for my players.&nbsp; I have about 13 tokens on the map that can see, and something like...&nbsp; probably 100 objects or so altogether if we count light walls and light sources.&nbsp; All in all, not a very busy map, particularly compared to one of my earlier build your own maps with closer to 300-500 unique objects (again, counting light walls).&nbsp; The performance on that map is relatively alright, but I never converted it from LDL. What's going on that UDL is so bad at rendering light rays?&nbsp; Even if it's using ray tracing, computers have close to 20x the power they did when I was in college, and it's not as though this is anything as complex as even a single 50,000 poly object in a 100,000 poly environment.&nbsp; Live rendering ray trace lighting should be a breeze for modern systems. Is it that the browsers are bad at it?&nbsp; Is it high time R20 looks at releasing a dedicated desktop app?&nbsp; I was never onboard with Web 2.0 and the mobile 'there's an app for that!' concept, but this might be the exception.

I'm confused by my tokens being translucent as well D: Never really felt overwhelmed by amount of tokens (besides roll20 starting lagging) so not sure how this is going to help

Hey Friends, I've been using DL for a while now with few issues. Last night got so bad I just turned it off and had to deal with the fact my players could see everything.. Kind of annoying. Anyway, it seems to work for the players until after a random number of token movements, then everything goes black. Reloading the page fixes the issue but it happened so many times I just turned off DL entirely. It happened for all my players and for me when I use the command+L to see what they see. I hope this gets fixed soon since DL was a huge selling point for my pro membership.&nbsp; I'm also having issues with the music volume (individually for my players). When they change their master music volume sometimes it doesn't work, and the music volume doesn't change... Lastly, we ended up using discord for voice chat, since everyone was like "i can only hear the DM" for about 10 minutes even though I could hear everyone... very annoying. I've been using roll20 for about a year and haven't had that issue so for now I'll definitely be using discord for voice chat until this is resolved.

ALWAYS use Discord Tom :)

UDL maps (when turned on) have become unloadable on my&nbsp; iPad Pro (12.9-inch) (2nd generation.) Screen stays black with all the amusing loading messages moving across. Only started in Dungeon Heist, but doing it in all of my games now. I now even though it’s “Chrome” it’s Safari based but this is a big issue for me as my wife uses it while we play. Edit: Wondering if it was the iOS 15 update…

So the solution for being able to simulate 5e Darkvision is still to just use LDL? I guess I should've checked the forums before buying a year long sub... It seems that the Roll20 devs are treating the removal of 5e darkvision capability as a 'feature'. I would've posted this in the new 'Dynamic Lighting Portal' but it appears to be broken for 3 weeks straight. I would hope that if LDL gets scrapped before my sub runs out I'll get a refund, but I don't think that's likely

UDL supports darkvision. At least, it works for me and my group, and more intuitively than LDL's "Light only you can see" solution ever did. A character with darkvision can now carry a torch. This was impossible before.

keithcurtis said: UDL supports darkvision. At least, it works for me and my group, and more intuitively than LDL's "Light only you can see" solution ever did. A character with darkvision can now carry a torch. This was impossible before. I do that all the time with scripts. Works without any problem. Which is not something I can say of UDL, unfortunately.

I'm curious what script you use. Are you attaching a separate torch token to the darkvision character? In any case, this wouldn't help a Plus member. But I am curious.