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Dynamic Lighting - Updates, Bugs, & Feedback

1651457540
David M.
Pro
API Scripter
The one-way barrier update definitely introduced the LDL bug you are experiencing. It changed how "closed" polygons (where the start pt = end pt) were treated and causes the weird diagonal line. With LDL, the only way to get rid of this seems to be only using "open" polygons on your DL layer, where the start does not connect to the end. I wrote a script to easily convert closed polygons to open ones, but this would require a pro subscription. For free/plus users, you'll have to either re-draw these DL features or use UDL, unless a fix is implemented (not likely, due to LDL sunsetting). It's a pain, for sure.
1651486752

Edited 1651487197
Lighting from torches goes out when player moves token Hi - I've had a hunt around but can't see this specific issue reported anywhere (although I haven't trawled through every post in this thread I'll admit!) I have an issue with the dynamic lighting where I have daylight mode turned off on the map and am using the torch lighting token feature to create lighting in the dungeon.  This works fine when the map loads but as soon as I move a token - even just one 5' square - the lighting being emitted by the torches vanishes. This seems to have only started happening when I logged in today to check the map I have been working on over the weekend.  Some screeny's to show what is happening.  As you can see - the character token was only moved 5' to the right.   I'm using Chrome - have cleared my cache etc.  Tried also in FF and Chromium Edge and I get the issue in those browsers too.
1651502173
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
I noticed this yesterday and did some testing. I don't know what causes it, but it seems to not occur if you have Update on Drop turned on in the Page settings.
keithcurtis said: I noticed this yesterday and did some testing. I don't know what causes it, but it seems to not occur if you have Update on Drop turned on in the Page settings. That setting doesn't make any difference for me - I get the issue with or without update on drop active.
1651514757
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Adam B. said: keithcurtis said: I noticed this yesterday and did some testing. I don't know what causes it, but it seems to not occur if you have Update on Drop turned on in the Page settings. That setting doesn't make any difference for me - I get the issue with or without update on drop active. Well, poop. I know this used to be a bug that I thought was squashed, and the workaround that was suggested at the time seems to work for me. Maybe it got reverted with some of the recent code updates? I have made a report, and if you want to join in with a  Help Center Request , I'm sure more voices = more attention.
1651520207
Eve
Roll20 Team
Adam B. said: keithcurtis said: I noticed this yesterday and did some testing. I don't know what causes it, but it seems to not occur if you have Update on Drop turned on in the Page settings. That setting doesn't make any difference for me - I get the issue with or without update on drop active. Thanks for reporting this and thanks for trying that workaround. I've got enough information here to get a bug ticket filed with our development team but I don't have an ETA at the moment for when it will be resolved. If you do have any additional information you'd like to provide though please feel free to send in that help center request and we'll get it documented.
1651559632
Torches alter light distance after saving changes. I've started having a problem today when I set a dynamic light source to No bright light and 10ft dim light. When I save changes the light source sets the dim light distance between 20-40ft instead. It also converted 100ft of dim light to 120ft.
1 way walls don't work in LDL I tried creating new games and pages yet the issue is still actual
1651575613
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Daniil K. said: 1 way walls don't work in LDL I tried creating new games and pages yet the issue is still actual 1-way walls will never work in LDL. All new features are UDL only.
1651588383
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
1 way walls is one of the features that required the abandonment of LDL. LDL was based on a technology that could not be expanded upon.
1651615252

Edited 1651615310
Potagrassa said: Torches alter light distance after saving changes. I've started having a problem today when I set a dynamic light source to No bright light and 10ft dim light. When I save changes the light source sets the dim light distance between 20-40ft instead. It also converted 100ft of dim light to 120ft. This happens when you have bright light disabled but it still has a distance set.  Assuming that's the case here, just reenable Bright Light, set the distance to 0, and then turn it off again and you'll be fine. It's super annoying.
1651625053
I'm encountering this recurring problem with the Castle Ravenloft maps I purchased on Roll20, and I'm not sure how to figure it out. I'm guessing it's a bug from a recent update due to the complexity of the map. With or without Explorer Mode on, the Player tokens can see any light source anywhere on the map, moving in real time, regardless of whether it's completely enclosed in walls. If this is something fixable on my end and not a bug, can someone please advise? 
1651675425
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Those don't look like the Castle Ravenloft maps from Roll20 either in style or light blocking placement, so I can't look to see what might be a problem with the Roll20 setup. Have you checked the light sources to make sure that they are not controlled by All Players? Can you post screen shots of the light and permission settings on one of the misbehaving light sources? Also, is your screen shot from a logged in player view, or using Ctrl-L?
1651708760
I did put some overlays on certain areas to change the look of certain rooms, but the foundation for the map is the Castle Ravenloft Roll20 map. All of the lights are misbehaving, and they are not listed as controlled by any players. The screen shots are from a logged in Player View. I'm posting screenshots below of the light settings for one of the lights (moved to the token layer from the lighting layer so that they can be displayed) and the permissions, and I've also posted a GM account view of the lighting layer that I have for the whole map.  Curiously, I copied that same map page so that I could tinker around with it and troubleshoot without losing any work on the original, and upon looking at the copy through the logged in Player account it looks like everything's working as it should... so I'm not sure what the issue is on the original page. 
1651715940
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Without being logged in and snooping around, I can only make guesses It's sounds like you have a workable map now, though?
Adam B. said: Lighting from torches goes out when player moves token Hi - I've had a hunt around but can't see this specific issue reported anywhere (although I haven't trawled through every post in this thread I'll admit!) I have an issue with the dynamic lighting where I have daylight mode turned off on the map and am using the torch lighting token feature to create lighting in the dungeon.  This works fine when the map loads but as soon as I move a token - even just one 5' square - the lighting being emitted by the torches vanishes. This seems to have only started happening when I logged in today to check the map I have been working on over the weekend.  Some screeny's to show what is happening.  As you can see - the character token was only moved 5' to the right.   I'm using Chrome - have cleared my cache etc.  Tried also in FF and Chromium Edge and I get the issue in those browsers too. Just as an update here - having played a bit more with my map, I have found a workaround which at least means I hopefully won't have to start again with my map!  I found that adjusting ANY of the dynamic lighting barriers on the map seemed to kick the lighting into action.  When I view as player I can then move the tokens around and all the lighting works.  However, if I refresh the page or exit and load back in again, the problem returns. So - my solution is to have a random barrier line somewhere on the map which I can just select and move once all the player are logged in so that the dynamic lighting behaves.  If they have to log out and back in again, I can just tweak my dummy dynamic lighting barrier line again and all is back working. As I say - a workaround but it's something.
1651862340
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Thanks for the research. That's extremely inconvenient, and I hope that Roll20 works this out quickly. I wonder if an API script could be written to tweak the DL line like that, and if it would do the same thing.
1651961413

Edited 1651962045
Hi! Apologies if this has been reported before. I've noticed that when setting up the defaults for dynamic lighting in the game settings section, if you turn token vision on and change the tint color of the night vision to transparent (or edit it in any way maybe), and then save it, the token vision setting will turn itself back off (after reloading the page). Not only that, but if you turn them back on, any other adjustments (like the night vision effect) are reset as well and the tint is set to black. Here's what it looks like when I turn them back on. After saving again the vision settings go back to being turned off. It used to work fine until a couple of months ago. Not sure if it's browser related, but it happens to me on Firefox. Any idea why this may be happening? B. Edit: Oh! I just noticed that when you set the map dynamic lighting as always on by default and save it, the vision settings remain as you last marked them (e.g. vision "on", night vision "on", distance "10 ft.", night vision effect "dimming", dimming start "5ft.") but the tint is still goes back to black. And this is what it looks like when you see turn on vision in the token settings in-game (without changing anything else):
1652483162
Dave
Plus
Anyone else have this problem? The lights just go out when moving around.
1652509505
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Yup. It's been reported a couple of times. Although it's not a guarantee, you can try switching on "Update on Drop". I've found it fixes the problem for me, though there have been reports to the contrary, possibly on very complex maps.
Hey, I was just wondering if there was ever an update on the unselectable thin vertical lines in the dynamic lighting layer? My casual googling seems to show that the earliest reports on this bug seems to be from 7 years ago (here:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/1216494/cant-select-in-dynamic-lighting" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/1216494/cant-select-in-dynamic-lighting</a>)... &nbsp;
1652605949
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Fish Out Of Water said: Hey, I was just wondering if there was ever an update on the unselectable thin vertical lines in the dynamic lighting layer? My casual googling seems to show that the earliest reports on this bug seems to be from 7 years ago (here:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/1216494/cant-select-in-dynamic-lighting" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/1216494/cant-select-in-dynamic-lighting</a>)... &nbsp; No, you have two options to get as close to the desired functionality as possible: Place a tiny tail on one end of the line. Use Small lines instead of Tiny.
1652784515

Edited 1652784567
Night Vision + Tint = Tokens Not Visible I have tried searching to see if there is any update on this issue but couldn't seem to find anything recent.... when I apply a tint to night vision other tokens are obscured/not visible, while without a tint they are visible (see below for examples). I would expect the colour to change but not the visibility of other tokens etc. I believe this has been an open issue for a long time but can't seem to find any references to whether it is still perceived as an issue by the Dev Team (with an expected fix date) or considered a "working as intended". Does anyone happen to know? Night vision without Tint Night vision with Tint The tint is dark grey in this instance, if it matters.
1652799290

Edited 1652799368
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Sorry to say, but the best solution is to avoid tinted light or vision (or use them very sparingly). They are gimmicky and don't overlap in expected ways. Using Nocturnal or Dimming gives far better results. Also, test with a&nbsp; Dummy Account &nbsp;to make sure you are seeing what a player would see, and not the GM view (which is often confused by extra light or vision unavailable to players, who can only see what their controlled token can see.
1652806307

Edited 1652806323
Thanks, I checked with the player view and the screenshots are the result. I have been completely avoiding using tints to date, which is a shame as they work nicely for Night Vision, however I was just wondering if anyone in the development team was aware of this as a problem to be fixed, or whether in their minds everything is working as intended.
1652808605
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
It's been that way for a long, long time. I wouldn't look to seeing it changed anytime soon. FWIW, tinted lights were introduced before Nocturnal, which is a mode that emulates 5e darkvision pretty faithfully. It has been weird since day 1. I only use them for the occasional: "The room pulses with red light" type situations. When they overlap, they get weird. And additionally, the gray has an opaquing tendency. I have seen a lot of problems solved by abandoning the tinting of darkvision.
1653186131
Is there a good way to deal with the horrendously jagged edges in UDL? These zigzags show up rather than straight lines along the edge of walls: I've been using LDL for the past couple of years because of these ugly zigzags in UDL, but since LDL finally seems to be starting to break I'm biting the bullet and trying the new system again. Some of the screenshots people have posted here seem to have much softer, fuzzier edges to sight lines that look much better. When tokens are close to a wall the pixelation isn't too bad, but the further they get away the worse it becomes. I was really hoping this problem would've been fixed after years of development, and I have to admit it's really bumming me out that it's still an issue.
1653206090

Edited 1653206170
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
That's best image I have ever seen of that phenomenon. I've never been able to reproduce anything remotely close, so I've always wondered what people are talking about. I've wondered if it has something to do with platform, browser or graphics card. Can you say what browser and OS you are using, and if your setup is configured to use WebGL ? There must be something going on that is related to particular setups, since as you say, other screen shots (for example the others on this page) don't show that behavior. FWIW, I've never been able to understand how people were ever satisfied with the 1 grid square(!) jaggies of Advanced Fog of War under LDL.
1653251355
We were satisfied mostly because you could build the map around it to accommodate it, and unlike UDL, it didn't cause incredible amounts of lag and render some map usage completely inoperable.
1653253128
Rosepath said: Is there a good way to deal with the horrendously jagged edges in UDL? These zigzags show up rather than straight lines along the edge of walls: I've been using LDL for the past couple of years because of these ugly zigzags in UDL, but since LDL finally seems to be starting to break I'm biting the bullet and trying the new system again. Some of the screenshots people have posted here seem to have much softer, fuzzier edges to sight lines that look much better. When tokens are close to a wall the pixelation isn't too bad, but the further they get away the worse it becomes. I was really hoping this problem would've been fixed after years of development, and I have to admit it's really bumming me out that it's still an issue. I've been dealing with this for over a year and really dislike that I have to choose between all my maps looking like this or using the old and outdated mode that I can no longer use as I can't make rooms w/o it breaking. I've been a loyal customer for a decade now, but it's been a literal year this has been going on and constantly reported by dozens of members, including by me. It's not just ugly, it fundamentally breaks the virtual tabletop. I am considering other options for my virtual tabletop games, as I feel that I have no other option.
1653254382
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Tormak said: We were satisfied mostly because you could build the map around it to accommodate it, and unlike UDL, it didn't cause incredible amounts of lag and render some map usage completely inoperable. Like the jagged edges, lag due to DL is not something I have been able to replicate, with the exception of turning off Hardware Acceleration. And yes, you could design maps around the per-grid reveal, but that sounds onerous and invalidates a huge number of pre-built maps. I'd like to figure out what causes the jagged edges that some people experience (again, look at the extreme preponderance of screenshot in this thread without the jagged edges.). Something must cause it, but it's obviously not endemic to the feature. If anyone can figure out why it happens, I'd love to be able to communicate that to the people experiencing it. FWIW, Advanced Fog of War was a feature I never used, simply because of the paradigm. I used&nbsp; Light Crumbs &nbsp;instead.
Meanwhile, keithcurtis, I'm curious about what settings you use that cause you to never see the jaggies! For me (Mac OS Catalina 10.15.7, Firefox 100.0.2, hardware acceleration on, WebGL yes), reproducing a jagged line is as simple as: 1. Create a new page. Turn on dynamic lighting and daylight mode. 2. Using the Polygon/Line tool, draw a single, straight dynamic lighting barrier using Regular line thickness. 3. Put a token with vision near one end of the dynamic lighting line, and observe the behavior at the far end. Even using Snap to Grid to draw the line does not resolve the jaggies: Granted, these are Ctrl-L (or, rather, Cmd-L) views; I do not know whether the experience for players is any different. (Making a Dummy Account to troubleshoot things like this sounds like a great idea; I've just never gotten around to doing it.)
1653261523
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Thanks! I can see it now. I can think of reasons why I haven't noticed before, but probably mostly that they display very obviously agains a stark white background in bright light. Darkvision tends to smooth the edges, reducing the effect, and against a map background they almost become invisible. If you use Explorer Mode, that also tends to fill in the jagged areas in dim light, making them invisible once you have changed your perspective by more than a few squares. Nevertheless, I can certainly see how they can be glaring under the right setup. Given the amount of testing and play I do, I must have subconsciously dismissed the few times it would have been visible (I use Explorer Mode a lot), and likely, not very demanding on the appearance at long range and steep angles of vision. Or, I use a lot of maps with very dark walls. :D I can make guesses as to why they appear at all, likely stemming from a limited number of ray traces from the token's POV, trying to strike a balance between efficiency and appearance. Given that, I think the remedy (besides a fix by Roll20, which might introduce more lag) would be to use explorer mode where the jaggies are most visible, and to realize that bright light will likely accentuate them. This is not an ideal solution, I admit, for obvious reasons. But thank you for giving me a testable example.
1653663151
I'm having a weird issue with Dynamic lighting, specifically, the feathering or degrading that happens at distances, very similar to what Sarah R. Cohen posted above. Above are the rough barriers i set for Dynamic lighting and the black walls behind them, but them when i chose my players token, i pres ctrl + L to see what they see and the feathering is so aggressive towards the end it goes beyond the actual Dynamic Lighting barrier and allows them to see through it.&nbsp; I've never had this issue before until this week when uploading maps, though i've never noticed this severe amount of feathering before on shadows, they used to be a little jagged but stuck to the dynamic lighting barriers i set, it sucks as at certain angles the feathering is so aggressive they can see tokens of monsters on the other side of walls.
David M. said: Dranik, I had a similar issue recently, but at least for me (after some investigation) it seemed to be caused by a very sharp acute angle in my DL polygon for an odd-shaped object. Here's a sketch showing the approximate geometry that caused my issue. Weird that the "phantom" LoS blocking line did not correspond to the part of the polygon that seemed to cause it. This might not be your issue, but thought I'd share just in case. I should note that I still use LDL, so not sure if it also is an issue for UDL.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Any update coming to fix this thing ?
1654165522
David M.
Pro
API Scripter
Paragon, since this is only affecting the Legacy system, I'm not holding my breath for a fix. Though after some more testing I should clarify that it seems that the issue is actually the type of polygon used (open/closed). LDL now breaks when closed polygons are present (where the end point is the same as the start point of the polygon). It draws a phantom line to the upper left map corner. So, to avoid this for LDL in the future be sure to never connect the start and end points of any DL path.&nbsp;&nbsp;
1654374195

Edited 1654374316
Hi all! This is my issue when we played yesterday. It appears to be caused when I lower the luminosity of the Daylight mode in the Dynamic lighting page setup. Any token with an aura or darkvision cause that problem. I tried on different pages and same problem.
1654375185

Edited 1654375205
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Hi fol2dol! Are you using tinted light or vision anywhere? If so, turn it off and see if the issue persists.
1654544623

Edited 1654544882
Hello! I attempted to convert a game to the Updated Dynamic Lighting, and it placed me 88 in the queue. My spot in the queue seems to be going up (175 last I checked). EDIT: 3 minutes after I posted this, the issue resolved itself. Wizards behind the scenes? No idea.
1654585360

Edited 1654585930
I'm currently having an issue where there are weird "invisible walls" for line of sight with dynamic lighting. In the photo the left screen is in GM mode on the dynamic lighting layer showing that there are no lighting lines drawn(on any layer), and the right showing a Player mode having limited vision. It has happened in multiple locations in this room and I cant figure out why, and its making this room unplayable. There is no Permanent darkness placed on any layer, and exploration mode is enabled(it does occur with it disabled as well).&nbsp;
1654590434

Edited 1654590556
Ambrosia said: I'm currently having an issue where there are weird "invisible walls" for line of sight with dynamic lighting. In the photo the left screen is in GM mode on the dynamic lighting layer showing that there are no lighting lines drawn(on any layer), and the right showing a Player mode having limited vision. It has happened in multiple locations in this room and I cant figure out why, and its making this room unplayable. There is no Permanent darkness placed on any layer, and exploration mode is enabled(it does occur with it disabled as well).&nbsp; Can you post a screenshot of the lighting layer?&nbsp;I presume it has something to with how you draw the lines of sight as others have mentioned problems regarding Polygons and how they are drawn. Other question: do you use Legacy Lighing or Updated dynamic lighting?
1654600562

Edited 1654600771
David M.
Pro
API Scripter
Ambrosia, I'm guessing you are using Legacy dynamic lighting (LDL). An unintended consequence of a UDL update several weeks ago caused LDL users to see this (an invisible DL "line" connecting to the upper left point of the map). It occurs when "closed" polygons (end pt = start pt) are used on the DL layer. Solutions include (a) manually replacing the offending closed path with an open path, (b) using the PathEditor or LDLOpenPolygon scripts to convert the closed path to an open one, or (c) switching to UDL. The LDLOpenPolygon link shows an animated gif of the problem you are experiencing.
1654624455

Edited 1654624783
I am not using Legacy lighting, I removed all the drawings on the lighting layer, which removed the problem. I then added lines, which created the artifacts disjointed from where the lines are like this photo
1654625832
David M.
Pro
API Scripter
Ah ok, sorry I was making an assumption based on the original picture. Not sure what is going on there. I don't have much experience with UDL unfortunately.
1654626397
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
Are you using polygon lines, or freehand lines?
1654631281
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Kraynic said: Are you using polygon lines, or freehand lines? If using freehand, try redrawing them with polygons. Freehand lines can generate hundreds if not thousands of unneeded points. There are some scripts that can reduce the complexity automatically, but in practice, you can get away with a line of less than a dizen points when following a cave wall. You'll get better performance, They are just as quick to draw, and eliminate a lot of potential for artifacts like above.
1654640105
Is there any update on the torch lighting just disappearing when moving a token around? Having the same problem as others.
1654841786
keithcurtis said: Hi fol2dol! Are you using tinted light or vision anywhere? If so, turn it off and see if the issue persists. Hi Keith, One of my player has an aura and they all have darkvision enable. It occurs only in that case, when I dim the daylight option. This new option would have been great for the game :-(
1655478588

Edited 1655478797
So I swapped to Ultimate Dynamic Lighting recently and I noticed that, even without walls, I experience a bit of lag while scrolling up and down the dark map lit by light sources and the five PC's night vision? No tinting has been used. Is this lag normal for UDL, and more importantly, will it affect my players? If I were to hazard a guess, my screen lags because I can see everyone's light as the GM, but I hope the players will be spared of this. Edit: And yes, hardware acceleration is on.
1655479859
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Lag reports are hard to diagnose (You've hit hardware accelleration, which is the 800 pound gorilla of DL lag). Some folks seem to get lag no matter what, others never seem to run into it. I rarely encounter any significant lag, for instance. How complex is the map? Things to look out for: Excessive light sources. Do you have more than a few dozen? NPCs with vision. Although this is less of a lag issue than a display issue. Lots of NPCs with nightvision can make a dark room look bright, for instance. Excessive points in DL lines. Avoid using the freehand tool if possible. The lines it generates are needlessly complex and can affect display. Theoretically, a lot of freehand lines could affect performance as well. Also huge maps might be problematic (in excess of 60x60 grid squares, though this can vary widely based on other parameters--there is no strong rule of thumb here.) Try running in a private browsing window, to rule out interference from extensions, cookies or cached data. Make sure you are using a supported browser (Chrome, Firefox). As a pure test, you can also try temporarily switching one for the other, to see if there might be a browser setting at play.