[PF] Pathfinder sheet thread 4: Life after Sam

Vince said: I think we have the iterative attacks working(privately). Good suggestions all around. Since sheet real estate is always a premium, we may need to redesign the repeating attack to accomodate. Kicking around the idea of using tabs for the iterative attacks... Actually, I was just about to suggest just that. What I imagine is there being lets say 10 tabs. Each tab capable of being renamed to a particular weapon, maneuver, etc. When you click on a tab, you are brought to a list of iterative attacks for said tab.with the option of rolling all iterative attacks at once. Below is some concept art of what I imagine.

Vince, I think that any optional attack modifiers are best left to attack notes, barring any that change the actual number of attacks, like Rapid Shot. And that might be best accomplished by having one "weapon" called "full attack" and one "weapon" called "full attack with rapid shot"

Zan Thrax said: Vince, I think that any optional attack modifiers are best left to attack notes, barring any that change the actual number of attacks, like Rapid Shot. And that might be best accomplished by having one "weapon" called "full attack" and one "weapon" called "full attack with rapid shot" This is what I do for pretty much everything: I have different attacks for my players with stuff like "Single Attack", "Full Attack", "Full Attack Power Attack", "Full Attack Rapid Shot" and that kind of thing. I can't really imagine any other way of doing that without prompting or just doing the calculations in your head. I also have no problem with doing it that way.

Zan Thrax said: Vince, I think that any optional attack modifiers are best left to attack notes, barring any that change the actual number of attacks, like Rapid Shot. And that might be best accomplished by having one "weapon" called "full attack" and one "weapon" called "full attack with rapid shot" That's the way I do it currently and it seems to be fine. As I've said before, I love that name Zan Thrax. +1 Curious; SorteKanin brought up a good point about the total number iterative attacks. Other than the fringe case(or not so fringe case) of a 20th level Monk quaffing a Haste potion and using Flurry of Blows, and ... etc. How many "realistic" iterative attacks do you suggest we should include?

SorteKanin said: Zan Thrax said: Vince, I think that any optional attack modifiers are best left to attack notes, barring any that change the actual number of attacks, like Rapid Shot. And that might be best accomplished by having one "weapon" called "full attack" and one "weapon" called "full attack with rapid shot" This is what I do for pretty much everything: I have different attacks for my players with stuff like "Single Attack", "Full Attack", "Full Attack Power Attack", "Full Attack Rapid Shot" and that kind of thing. I can't really imagine any other way of doing that without prompting or just doing the calculations in your head. I also have no problem with doing it that way. I use queries in my groups macros(attack mod?, damage mod?). They work as a good "catch-all" before the roll is made.

I'd say 8 multiple attacks is reasonable. That would take care of a level 20 monk flurry of blows with haste. I'd say anything beyond that could be considered an extreme case that the sheet wouldn't really need to cover.

Zan Thrax said: Vince, I think that any optional attack modifiers are best left to attack notes, barring any that change the actual number of attacks, like Rapid Shot. And that might be best accomplished by having one "weapon" called "full attack" and one "weapon" called "full attack with rapid shot" I considered the idea of hardcoding the modifiers but there are too many cases where people might want to change them so it made more sense to expose the modifiers and just default a value.

Some update, don't know which update, stripped the spells from my NPCs. This is frustrating.

Keii said: Some update, don't know which update, stripped the spells from my NPCs. This is frustrating. Sorry for the frustration Keii. The spell section for NPCs was completely overhauled because a lot of other people were expressing frustration with the limited nature of the old system. Because of the nature of repeating fields the old data is unfortunately unrecoverable so you will need to re-do it. Again sorry for the frustration.

Keii said: Some update, don't know which update, stripped the spells from my NPCs. This is frustrating. That's strange and unexpected. Although there were changes made (mostly cosmetic) to the NPC spells section, the existing attributes didn't change for Spell Like Abilities and Spell Class 1, and adding Spell Class 2 to the NPC's tab shouldn't have interfered with the existing repeatable spells at all.

Idea/suggestion: How is the icons you can add to a token handled (like those colourful circles and black and white icons)? It could be cool if an icon could be automatically added to a token when that token's character had some condition in the sheet.

SorteKanin said: Idea/suggestion: How is the icons you can add to a token handled (like those colourful circles and black and white icons)? It could be cool if an icon could be automatically added to a token when that token's character had some condition in the sheet. It miiiiight be possible to do with the scripting API but I would highly doubt it. And there is no way it could be done without the API. So I'm going to say the idea while good, probably won't be implemented.

Alright, just curious if it was possible.

It would be nice if there were a way to lock the atribute section of the character sheet so that, while working on macros in the "Abilities" section, I don't click in the seemingly empty space between "Atributes" and "Abilities" and accidentally delete an anonymous and random (but apparently very important) Attribute thus breaking everything forever and ever. Or if the Atributes and Abilities were even on different tabs... that would be nice too. Just a thought, Thanks so much for the amazing character sheets!

Joel W. said: It would be nice if there were a way to lock the atribute section of the character sheet so that, while working on macros in the "Abilities" section, I don't click in the seemingly empty space between "Atributes" and "Abilities" and accidentally delete an anonymous and random (but apparently very important) Attribute thus breaking everything forever and ever. Or if the Atributes and Abilities were even on different tabs... that would be nice too. Just a thought, Thanks so much for the amazing character sheets! Great ideas Joel but unfortunately they're out of the scope of what Vince and I can change. We can only affect things in the actual character sheet tab. If you want the attributes and abilities section changed you're going to need to make a post about it in the suggestions and ideas form.

Good to know and will do. Once again thanks for the absolutely amazing tool you guys have provided. You do great work.

Talking about toggling the displays of Attack Notes and so on. Would it be possible to toggle display of Components, Schools and other things in Spell Macros?

Chrys said: Talking about toggling the displays of Attack Notes and so on. Would it be possible to toggle display of Components, Schools and other things in Spell Macros? Speaking for myself... as we move forward on improving the sheet, I think we will consider adding similar toggles in other areas of the sheet, including the spell section's subsettings. Like the toggleable attack notes that we've added, there is a distinct difference/limitation on how toggles work within the repeating item(granular control within the repeating item) vs the attack bar(global toggle on/off for all button bar macros) because of how repeating items are handled. So, while this feature is very beneficial for people that use the sheet directly using the repeating item macro, those that want to use ability macros or drag/drop the button bar macro or call the button name from within a macro off the sheet, the benefit is drastically diminished. If we are getting a positive response on how the togglable feature is working for people, I'm sure you will see it implimented elsewhere. Cheers

Does anyone know when the update for the sheet that fixed the ACPs will be available for free users? We've started to create our chars yesterday and noticed the bug and the sheet version was from 13th may.

The fix has been added to the sheet and now we just have to wait for the servers to refresh with the updated version... should be anytime.

Vince said: Chrys said: Talking about toggling the displays of Attack Notes and so on. Would it be possible to toggle display of Components, Schools and other things in Spell Macros? Speaking for myself... as we move forward on improving the sheet, I think we will consider adding similar toggles in other areas of the sheet, including the spell section's subsettings. Like the toggleable attack notes that we've added, there is a distinct difference/limitation on how toggles work within the repeating item(granular control within the repeating item) vs the attack bar(global toggle on/off for all button bar macros) because of how repeating items are handled. So, while this feature is very beneficial for people that use the sheet directly using the repeating item macro, those that want to use ability macros or drag/drop the button bar macro or call the button name from within a macro off the sheet, the benefit is drastically diminished. If we are getting a positive response on how the togglable feature is working for people, I'm sure you will see it implimented elsewhere. Cheers I think the togglable Notes for the attack section are very beneficial for the overall amount of information you can put into the sheet and display during your rolls. Talking about other sections that could benefit from this feature, I can only say I'd love to see it for the saving throws. Various class skills provide permanent but highly situational boni (most prominent might be the fighter's bravery class feature against fear effects), that are worth being tracked in a manner so they aren't forgotten once they apply. Extending the argument and including magic items, campaign traits and all that jazz would make this feature even more useful. /K

Roger that Karankwan. I think we'll take a look sheet-wide and implement toggle options where they make the most sense. Your suggestions as well as other's made previously will definitely be considered. Thanks

I'm not sure what to put into the crit section for my attacks, the weapon I'm trying to enter has x3 according to the stats but I'm not sure what to put here.

In the attack section there is a place on the second line that says Crit /x Multiplier. Above crit in the box you put your threat range. (20,19, 18 what ever it is, but you put the lower of the values). Above multiplier you put your your x3 as just 3.

Is it possible that we can have the 'details' section on new Inventory items minimized by default? Often items are small things, when big magic items arrive, then they usually warrant a details section. Thanks for the great work!

Great suggestion Ken.

It appears the macro text for Knowledge (Geography) is referencing Knowledge (History) modifiers. @{Knowledge-history-macro} appears twice, but there is presumably no @{knowledge-geography-macro}.

Thanks JLeeBly. It was pointed out that Knowledge Geography was using Knowledge Histors misc attribute. I fixed that issue, but din't think to look further... ;-( I'll fix this tonight. Thanks UPDATE: actually this has been fixed. We just have to wait for the servers to pick up the last PR. Cheers

Hey I am trying to set up an attack for my longsword, and it appears that nothing I am filling into the slots is actually updating in the macro text, so I just get a slew of errors when I try to click it. Any ideas? D:

Here's what it looks like on my sheet btw!

Hi Jason! When you get the errors, are you trying to roll the attack from the Preset attack bar or from the roll button to the left of the attack? Also you will need to ensure that you have clicked the masterwork checkbox at least once. You can uncheck it afterwards if you wish. You also need to fill in a value for the damage modifier and for the notes. If you do all of that and are still having errors please PM me a join link to your campaign and I can help you sort it out further.

Every attribute within a repeating item has to have something entered or toggled in order for the attribute to be created. Enter "0" if there isn't a modifier. It's just the nature of repeating item attributes.

Thanks! It looks like filling the empty value slots and/or clicking masterwork on/off fixed it! You're a huge help! :D

Ken L. said: Is it possible that we can have the 'details' section on new Inventory items minimized by default? Often items are small things, when big magic items arrive, then they usually warrant a details section. Thanks for the great work! PR added. <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/879" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/879</a>

The strength misc modifier is not changing the base strength. Also as a suggestion would it be possible to color code the background of areas that have to be filled in and areas that are optional. That way people would have less problems wondering why certain spells don't work and we can just tell them too fill in all the white areas for example. Love your sheet btw, great work!

Thanks Sprint. The STR misc should be fixed as soon as the servers update the sheet. <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/870" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/870</a> All areas of repeating items must be filled in or toggled to be created. Otherwise you'll get errors if the attribute is needed for the macro. I'll have to look over the sheet to see if adding color to certain fields will help clarify required input. The grey fields are auto calculated fields and if they do not have a number in them usually indicates a required attribute is missing.

Vince said: I'll have to look over the sheet to see if adding color to certain fields will help clarify required input. The grey fields are auto calculated fields and if they do not have a number in them usually indicates a required attribute is missing. That or I screwed up something royally in the code when I was working on it ;P

Thanks for the earlier help with my questions. I’m really liking this iterative attack demo so far. It’s very much appreciated. I’m not very good with macros yet, but I was playing around with changing the name of the attack. For example I changed the modifier on iterative 8 from -35 to 0, and the name from attack8 to hasted. It seems like doing this messes with the output table’s ability to block output together visually with the damage, or to decide that a crit roll is warranted. This is only a minor concern, as someone could just put in the attack notes that #8 is their hasted attack etc. Looks like this presently only exists in the PC section, not NPC. I’m guessing this is because it’s in development still. As the DM in my group, I don’t mind having to switch tabs to get this. My only concern would be if I wanted to keep the rolls hidden to hide that I nudged down a crit or whatever. Could you also change the default state of “Proficiency” to yes? I feel like more often than not, a new attack added will be one that the user is proficient with.

Hi Robert. The roll template for attacks(pf_attack) are designed to format the "named" of attack, attack1, attack2,...attack8 So if you change the name from attack= to Hasted Attack= the roll template doesn't have a clue how to provide the formatting and thus defaults to the allprops() "generic" formatting. Maybe we can add a name field along with each iterative attack, but for the most part iterative attacks by design are the extra attacks for that weapon however they are derived such as multiple BAB's, natural attacks, hastened, etc. EDIT: you can add a name/note in the macro text after the "attack=" example "{{attack8= Hasted [[ 1d20cs&gt;" The NPC attacks use the same repeating fields as the PC attacks, so adding the iterative attacks to the NPC section is probably a good idea. As far as changing Weapon Proficiency to default to "Yes"; it really makes no difference since all repeating attributes must be entered and/or toggled to be created. So, even if it was set to yes, it would need to manually be set to no and then yes in order to be created. It's a limitation of roll20's use of repeating items (fieldset). Please add a comment to this suggestion. :-) Official support for repeating sections in character sheets

How about compressing the question "Include a second attack?" to "Second attack" or even "2nd attack" (the checkbox already kinda implies the question) and then having a text field next to that with a name for each iterative attack? It'd be nice to be able to name each attack (regardless of whether or not it could be included in the macro) so that my ranger player could for example see that she has to check the second attack if she wants to do a rapid shot. Also possibly clarify that the modifer is an attack modifer.

I've changed the iterative attacks to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc on my test campaign. Great minds think alike. ;-) We'll see about adding an iterative name for each additional attack. For now, you can just add a name right in the macro text, after the = ie "attack=Rapid Shot..."

Ooh yea I see, I didn't realize text was allowed in the roll macro, thought it was only for the roll. That might be alright then.

That's the cool thing with Samuel adding macro text to various rolls on the sheet. It adds a layer of flexibility to modify the roll if you're so inclined.

Hi again, I'm currently experiencing some funky issues with the 3D dice and was wondering if someone else is experiencing it. What I'm seeing so far is, that when my players roll their attacks (preset attack buttons, and regular attacks, doesn't matter) I only see the damage rolls, but no attack rolls. I tried putting in new attacks assuming that the update might messed something up, but it's the same issue after the update. I also tried creating new characters since the current ones are imported, but that doesn't help either. The second issue I see happening is when I roll attacks from the NPC section. In that case I do see a single d20 and a damage roll. Only problem is the result on neither of the dice matches the one showing up in the roll template in the chat window. Anyone encountering similar things, or has a clue of what might be going on? I'm DMing two campaigns and have the same issue in both campaigns. Interesting enough, I don't encounter those things in the campaign I joined as a player. /K EDIT: Of course I find out what's wrong 2 minutes after posting... Thanks anyways!

Is it possible as GM to refrence my player's sheets in outside macros? For example if I want to set up a macro that attacks against their armor class how would I reference my player's ac as listed on their sheets?

In your attack macro you can reference a target's attributes by doing @{target|AC}.

Hmm when I do that I get an absolute mess of a formula instead of the target's ac. Formula: (10 + (0 * 1) + (0 * 1) + (((((floor((8 + 0 + 0 + 0)/2)-5) + floor(0/2) - (floor(abs(0)/2)) - (floor(abs(0)/2)) - 0 - 0 - 0) + 9999) - abs(((floor((8 + 0 + 0 + 0)/2)-5) + floor(0/2) - (floor(abs(0)/2)) - (floor(abs(0)/2)) - 0 - 0 - 0) - 9999)) / 2) + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0) Have we messed up the sheets somewhere or am I formating the macro wrong?

it's working as intended. If you want to make it a little more human readable then you're going to have to surround the call in a couple pairs of brackets like this. [[ [[ @{target|AC} ]] ]]

If you have tokens linked to sheets and use AC as one of the bars, you can refrence that in your macro. e.g. vs AC:[[@{target|bar1}]]

Yah, that is what we have been doing, I was just hoping to do it directly to the sheet so they don't have to worry about keeping the bars updated.