[PF] Pathfinder sheet thread 4: Life after Sam

Just a heads up. There's a slight issue that was brought up by Dranik ( ACP for the pathfinder sheet ) (thank you BTW) Basically, the NPC skills that require ACP to be included in their calculations (Acrobatics, Climb, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Swim) is missing, which also affects those Skills in the Skills tab/section. You'll have to manually adjust the ACP for now. Appologies. This has been patched in the next PR ( Pathfinder - neceros #852 )

I'm also having issue with some of my macros... %{selected|repeating_Weapon_0_attack} is producing a result that is -1 from the result obtained when I use the button on the sheet.

Are you saying that the button bar 0(%{selected|repeating_Weapon_0_attack}) has a different total total-attack value than the repeating_weapon_0 attack button?

if i use a macro pressed from the table top, i get a different value than if i push the button directly off the character sheet. (Yes the button bar 0)

Is your macro dragged from the button bar? In theory this would be just like pressing the same button on the sheet. I'm not seeing any difference between the two for me. Do you see a difference between button bar 0 and the repeating_weapon_0's button?

it isn't dragged just typed. How do you drag and drop from sheet, I can pick up button, but it disappears when I drop it on the tabletop. Is it supposed drop into the macro text? or onto the tabletop?

update (experimenting) it seems to be a problem between the button on the attack buttons row and the button directly next to the attack. The button on the attack button row is -1.

also of note, not sure if this is relevant, but it doesnt pick up the damage type box either.

You can drag and drop sheet roll buttons to the macro quick bar.(bottom of screen if you have quick bar enabled in your settings) You can drag and drop all the sheet roll button's on the sheet and/or pull them by their names inside other macros except for repeating_item_X buttons. I'm not experiencing either of the issues you are describing. total-attack and total-damage are being applied correctly for me. Have you changed any of the macro text for your repeating_item_X attacks? Anyone else seeing this issue?

I haven't seen a discrpency with the attack or damage rolls but I did see the damage type problem and I've fixed it for the next pull request.

Not sure if it has been brought up, but personally, I would love to see roll templates more like the ones for D&D 5e. The current roll templates are nice and very clean, but they're not exactly aesthetically pleasing (in my opinion). Also, a tab for the original Pathfinder Skill set would be great to have, as a lot of the groups I'm in don't use the Unchained variant skill sets. Other than that, the most recent update to the sheets looks amazing, and I'm looking forward to any new improvements you guys make!

First off, great questions and ideas Skeleton. Skeleton Jester said: Not sure if it has been brought up, but personally, I would love to see roll templates more like the ones for D&D 5e. The current roll templates are nice and very clean, but they're not exactly aesthetically pleasing (in my opinion). Both Vince and I would love to make the roll templates look better and we will put that on our agenda for down the road. Skeleton Jester said: Also, a tab for the original Pathfinder Skill set would be great to have, as a lot of the groups I'm in don't use the Unchained variant skill sets. If you use the All Skills tab of the Skills page you will find all of the skills in the original, non pathfinder unchained format. Yes the artistry and lore skills are present but you can choose to just not use those. Skeleton Jester said: Other than that, the most recent update to the sheets looks amazing, and I'm looking forward to any new improvements you guys make! Already in the pipe are some long awaited improvements I think you'll like.

Hi Skeleton Jester, I agree that the roll templates are more functional than aesthetic. I'll say that improving the look of the roll templates is definitely on the list. Concerning the skills tab; we included the "All Skills" sub-tab to accommodate the gamer's that aren't using Unchained's alternate Skills rules. It does still include Artistry and Lore, but you can simply ignore them if they aren't needed in your game. It's essentially the same as the old Skills tab/section. Thoughts? EDIT: must refresh more often. :-)

Ask and ye shall receive. Some of you have been asking for a way to edit the macros the control the skill checks. In the next version of the character sheet that should go live in a week or so you shall get just that! You will be able to do things like add +1d6 to all knowledge rolls, and circumstantial bonuses based on queries or whatever you care for. You can test the new beta sheet in my development campaign <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/792657/wOGSaA" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/792657/wOGSaA</a> . Or grab the code from the repository ( <a href="https://github.com/jarquafelmu/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/Pathfinder-Neceros" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/jarquafelmu/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/Pathfinder-Neceros</a> ) and use it right now in your own campaign if your GM is a mentor. Also in this update you will see a fix for all the armor check penalty woes and missing damage types. If you have a moment please stop by the development campaign and run the characters through their paces and let me and vince know if you like it, hate it or any bugs you find. Also, while I will not be adding the exposed macros to the npc section of the sheet, their roll buttons have been linked to the same macros that drive the normal character sheet. So if you change them there you will change them for the NPC section.

as of 5/20/15 I noticed my ACP doesnt apply to climb so when I should get a bonus of +9 im getting +12. Im not conplaining about that lol but i think it should be applied. We did the -3 i should get aloud for the game but just thought I'd inform you guys.

Thanks for the report Catie, but the armor check penalty issues have already been reported and fixed and will be pushed to the live servers within one or two weeks.

Thanks a ton for the update you guys! Great to see the second Caster Class being implemented for the NPC section, Makes running my campaigns a lot more independent from external notes! Something I realized, but I'm not sure if that's intended or not: The comments in the various Notes Sections all over the sheet - except the ones that are tied directly to a certain attack - won's show in the chat after you rolled a skill check or a saving throw for instance. Is that intended? Thanks again, you guys do a great job! /K

While Nibrodooh was working on the roll templates I believe he made a decision at that time to keep the melee, ranged, cmb, and attack notes out to reduce chat spam. I think we can look at including them conditionally if that's what the majority would like. Of course you can always include them manually in the macro text of repeatable items or in ability macros. Personally, I like the notes and vote to include them if they exist.

Vince said: While Nibrodooh was working on the roll templates I believe he made a decision at that time to keep the melee, ranged, cmb, and attack notes out to reduce chat spam. I think we can look at including them conditionally if that's what the majority would like. Of course you can always include them manually in the macro text of repeatable items or in ability macros. Personally, I like the notes and vote to include them if they exist. If it's up for a vote, then I'd like to see them included again. I think it won't spam the chat too much, and it's a great way to note and not forget about situational boni for certain rolls /K

I believe I heard somewhere on another forum about someone making it so that there were buttons or something inside a roll template that would reveal x or y. Where X was the spells details, and Y was its description. If we could have such, that would be optimal in my opinion. Otherwise, I would prefer to have a check box or something next to each attack or spell where players can choose what information is passed on in an individual roll template.

The 5e sheet uses a toggle within the sheet that I think we might want to steal borrow from Actoba... We'll have to do some investigating. :-) I think this is a feature( toggling displayed attributes for roll templates ) that needs to be implemented in the PF sheet.

I wanted to express my gratitude for this amazing piece of art that is the character sheet. :) -- The other day I was working on a sheet for a riding dog character when I noticed the negatives of the skill points per level were somehow being treated cummolatively (i.e. as a second level creature it had minus a bunch of skill ranks, which of course doesn't make sense, since you can't have less than 0). However then I saw that the formula for skill ranks is editable (per character!) thus I could just write in the number of skill points he should have, since animals can't level up anyways, and had a great workaround. Then I saw the formulas in many places were editable! The formatting is beautiful and makes the sheet relatively easy to use. With being able to pop out the sheet in a new window it's become much faster on my computer and I'm really impressed by it all. Thanks so much!

Quick preview: toggle additional notes for attacks. (melee-attack-notes, ranged-attack-notes, CMB-notes, attack-notes)

That looks awesome Vince!

Great, this looks so nice and should satisfy everyone!

Cool. Samuel brought it up that the missing notes since roll templates were implemented seemed to be a point of mild contention. I think this is a good compromise. Include em if you want, or don't. I'll try to get them completed before the next git update. Happy Memorial Day.

Okay um so I've been tearing apart the Pathfinder-neceros sheet to make a custom one for my own party and their houserules but it seems like it could be useful for the main sheet if y'all are interested. There are a few things that are specifically different in our version and/or could use a bit of polishing up - e.g. our version of Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization scales up based on your BAB the way power attack does. Also I took out the 'edit macro' section because it was getting absurdly long - and put the code in the roll button. But you can easily edit that back if you like. I also fixed a couple of issues with the way damage is added in - for example, precision and elemental damage shouldn't be added to crits, and are absorbed differently, (DR as opposed to energy resistance) so you may need a different section for that. Then the macro template looks like this (I added in some elemental damage just so you could see what it looks like): Note that the crit section only appears if one of the attacks was a crit! That's because it drops in an invisible element for each attack if there is a crit, and the crit confirm section has in its CSS to only display if it's a sibling to that type of class. Here's the HTML for the attack fieldset: <a href="https://gist.github.com/MachineMuse/b0d1761d8a8aec" rel="nofollow">https://gist.github.com/MachineMuse/b0d1761d8a8aec</a>... And the attack roll template: <a href="https://gist.github.com/MachineMuse/a941dbf56a7397" rel="nofollow">https://gist.github.com/MachineMuse/a941dbf56a7397</a>... aaand finally the CSS - I don't remember which parts are relevant anymore so I just dropped in the whole thing sorry :&lt; <a href="https://gist.github.com/MachineMuse/93435efd134632" rel="nofollow">https://gist.github.com/MachineMuse/93435efd134632</a>... I put in enough code for 15 iterative attacks - I thought that was a lot but my GM said she managed to get a character to have 26 attacks one time so I don't even know. Realistically, I think you can get... 7 from iterative attacks & TWF or flurry of blows, +1 from haste, +1 from ki, plus maybe one or two more from other class features or Path of War. Any more than that and you're dipping into natural attack territory which usually means different damage dice and enchantments. I really like the notes idea so hopefully it won't be too hard to edit those in as well.

Wow. Thanks for sharing Eloelle. I like how you added the additional attacks. I might need a wider screen for 15 attacks though. :-) As I mentioned in the CSS Wizardry thread, the trick of adding an incremental counter using css on repeating items is way cool. That's a trick I would like to add. No more counting the rows of repeating items.

If you add a min-width element to the inline rolls, like about 1.5 em... it'll make them look better. :)

Good idea ^^' I'm not really happy with the colours I chose either. They should probably be user-configurable because different elements=&gt;different damage types... always more to do haha. Maybe I'll make another post when I've got some more functionality in there.

I would actually love to have something akin to Eloelle's Attack macro in the default sheet. As they are right now, iterative attacks are annoying to track.

I'd love to see Eloelle's Version of Attacks too. Just wrote a text about how attacks could be changed to implement different modes of attacks (normal shot, point blank, manyshot, etc.) - now the text is no longer needed as I scrolled further down the thread :D

Just noticed to night that the ACP issue I noted last week has change... It is now adding the penalty as a bonus to everything except acrobatics. Thanks for you time and effort in keeping this sheet up and fixing things. :)

Dranik said: Just noticed to night that the ACP issue I noted last week has change... It is now adding the penalty as a bonus to everything except acrobatics. Thanks for you time and effort in keeping this sheet up and fixing things. :) This was fixed last week <a href="https://github.com/vince-roll20/roll20-character-s" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/vince-roll20/roll20-character-s</a>... But... I think I made the mistake of grabbing another version of the html (Samuel and I have been working on the code simultaneously) that didn't have the fix applied and then went on to add additional updates. When the PR was ran it "reverted back" the ACP/Skills fix. It looks like Samuel has a PR with the fix coming <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/</a>... Never good to create problems. I will be more careful with my process...

*shrugs* mistakes happen, glad to know a fix is in the works. Thanks for the fast response and for maintaining all this.

Hey guys because I love you I've been pulling some extra time to get this new pull ready asap. Here is the new PR <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/863" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/863</a> In a nutshell the things it fixes are as follows: Fixed the armor check penalty from adding instead of subtracting its value. Fixed an apparent problem with the way the wound threshold system was calculating. Moved the togglable notes section for the action bar to just below it. Renamed the Attack button bar to be Preset Attack Buttons, hopefully this should make things a little clearer. Any bold or span tag with a title attribute will now change the cursor to the help cursor to indicate that there is a useful message if you hover long enough.

Hello all, first time poster. Here are some observations I've made. - Is the ACP fix supposed to be live already? It looks like acrobatics is the only skill which is getting subtraction instead of addition. - Under ability score modifiers: temp, damage, and penalty don't directly affect the ability score. Instead, it seems to halves that value and apply that directly to the mod value. For example, if you have 16 int (+3) with a -1 in damage, then it doesn't change it to 15 (+2). However, once you put -2 in damage, then it reports 16 (+2). They don't get summed either, so a -1 damage and -1 penalty net no impact. - There's a couple of skills called "artistry" and "lore", which I don't believe have anything to do with pathfinder, but they aren't hurting anything either. Also some unrelated opinions and questions: - I like Eloelle's demo and am in general a fan of any plan to support iterative attacks without copy pasting. - I don't suppose anyone knows of a way to get the mini's bars to link to @{repeating_class-ability_X_used|max}, or a better place in the char sheet to put customizable resource values to link to the bars? - Is there a way to link minis between DM pages? IE if a mini is set to character sheet "Bob" in the tavern page and the DM sets bar1 to be "hp", is there a setting he can do so that the "Bob" mini in the dungeon page automatically updates bar1 to "hp" also? Thanks :-)

Is the ACP fix supposed to be live already? It looks like acrobatics is the only skill which is getting subtraction instead of addition. There is a fix on its way, which I had mentioned right above your post. It was merged today and should be available in about a week on the live server. Under ability score modifiers: temp, damage, and penalty don't directly affect the ability score. Instead, it seems to halves that value and apply that directly to the mod value. For example, if you have 16 int (+3) with a -1 in damage, then it doesn't change it to 15 (+2). However, once you put -2 in damage, then it reports 16 (+2). They don't get summed either, so a -1 damage and -1 penalty net no impact. This is working as intended. These apply to checks you would make with these scores, but do not affect the score themselves. As with any ability modifier you must have at least two to make any changes to the modifier. There's a couple of skills called "artistry" and "lore", which I don't believe have anything to do with pathfinder, but they aren't hurting anything either. These are new skills added by Pathfinder Unchained. If you don't use them, ignore them, they won't affect your game. I like Eloelle's demo and am in general a fan of any plan to support iterative attacks without copy pasting. We will certainly look at adding official support for iterative attacks, but that will be in the near future. I don't suppose anyone knows of a way to get the mini's bars to link to @{repeating_class-ability_X_used|max}, or a better place in the char sheet to put customizable resource values to link to the bars? Repeating skills are not easily accessible by the player. Therefore it's usually discouraged from trying because they are not treated as normal attributes on the character sheet. That being said if you replace the X with the item number starting from 0, then you can grab the value. However this is an unsupported work around because the repeating class names could change at any time breaking your macros. Is there a way to link minis between DM pages? IE if a mini is set to character sheet "Bob" in the tavern page and the DM sets bar1 to be "hp", is there a setting he can do so that the "Bob" mini in the dungeon page automatically updates bar1 to "hp" also? Create a token Open the settings for the token Change the "Represents Character" drop down to be the journal you want the token to be linked to. Change the drop downs for bar 1, 2 and/or 3 to link to the attributes you want tracked on the token. Edit the journal the token is now linked to. Set the default token to be the one you just made and configured. Click Save. ???? Profit. Once you follow that you can then drag the journal to any map and the current stats will be reflected.

which core skills are missing? I wasn't aware of any that were missing. Also you have up to 6 misc slots at the bottom of the skill section to account for any skill you want to add to the game. There is the possibility that you are on the adventure skills tab. A couple of updates ago Adventure skills and Background skills were broken up into their own separate groupings. However there is an All Skills tab that has all of them.

I can see where there may be some confusion with the additional (alternate) ruleset features. So far we have added Wound Thresholds and Background Skills(including the two new skills Artistry and Lore). They are optional features introduced in " Pathfinder Unchained " and can be safely ignored. I'll try and update the Pathfinder Character Sheet guide with our latest changes.

yea, that's what happened... I am somewhat confused why there is a need for such seperation though.

Robert B. said: yea, that's what happened... I am somewhat confused why there is a need for such seperation though. NP Robert. I just picked up a copy of Unchained so I could acquaint myself with some of the alternate rules that have started gaining popularity in gaming circles. Here's a little overview of the Unchained book. Part way thru the page there is a section on Skills that might clarify things a little. Cheers

Haven't looked at it myself yet, just starting a PF-based character though for a campaign a DM is running based in slightly modified open source D20 setting called Dragonstar (originally written based on what appears to be 3.5e style rules)

Felt a Warforged would be rather apropos to the setting after I read into it (I drop the Attribute penalties and add a Str+2 racial to upgrade them to PF)

Robert B. said: yea, that's what happened... I am somewhat confused why there is a need for such seperation though. Sorry for the confusion that it caused you. The skills were broken up to make it easier to see just which skills were Adventure vs Background ones. In pathfinder unchained the background skills variant gives the player 2 free skill points each level to apply to any background skill they choose. This allows them to dedicate more skill ranks to the important adventure skills while still allowing for a modicum of flavor. You can still use the All Skills list if you want to see the skills in their original glory.

Well hopefully you guys will be overjoyed to learn that Vince and I took your wishes about iterative attacks to heart and they are currently in the process of being implemented. Head on over to the beta development campaign so you can take a look at them in their current state and you can see them become finalized. Currently they aren't outputting to the actual roll but all in good time.

thats looking good. small suggestion as an addon. can you add activatable moddifiers, for example to use with power attack, point-blank shot and so on? I'm unsure of about all the values that can be changed just for an attack, should be only +/- attack mods, +/- damage mods, damage ability (use one handed weapon with both hands), magical enhancement of mwk and enhancement ..

Glad to hear that better support for multiple attacks is on the way! I still use custom macros for all my attacks because the options for multiple attacks right now are rather limited. Really happy that you guys put effort into this. I looked at the attack section in the sheet in the beta development campaign and I can see you added support for 6 attacks in total - I can't help but feel like that's a bit of a small amount. I have level 8 players and some of them are sporting 4 attacks in a single turn (rogues with dual weapons and rangers with multishot+rapid shot). I could imagine them having more than 6 attacks when they reach even higher levels. Maybe 8 or 10 would be a more reasonable maximum, though I'm not sure how you would fit it on the sheet.

I think we have the iterative attacks working(privately). Good suggestions all around. Since sheet real estate is always a premium, we may need to redesign the repeating attack to accomodate. Kicking around the idea of using tabs for the iterative attacks...