Michael D. said: keithcurtis said: UDL works the same on my Chromebook. It could be a hardware point, but I don't think it is as simple as new, powerful computer/old cheap computer. I realize you have had a large number of negative experiences, but I have had a large number of positive experiences. Neither of us has an overview of the general user base experience, and people aren't very vocal when something works. LDL has some features that I hated—I never used Advanced Fog of War for example. Not for the performance (that was easy enough to fix), but for the whole paradigm, which I felt was a flawed approach. I'd rather concentrate on making UDL a better experience for users than trying to get Roll20 to go back to an older, less expandable system. Because honestly, that's not going to happen. I think trying to convince people to make that backward step is counterproductive to improving UDL. YMMV. Agree with your wondering what the real issue is. I know from my experience UDL has been good as well. I like it better than LDL, has more useful features, a better approach, and for me it works well with no issues in our group of 8. I even use some of the features they say not to (like tinted vision for night vision goggles) with no problems (of course, one color only, no green and purple on the board at the same time). Well, we did have one issue, I had a player who could occasionally see the entire map as described above. And as described if he refreshed his browser window it would reset. And I suspect your statement of hardware not being a root cause and an easy thing to blame is probably true. However, from my unique singular point, once we replaced his ancient doorstop with an inexpensive replacement laptop, no more issues. I can't blame it on hardware (I don't know the hardware was the issue), and he didn't get anything new or fancy or powerful (cheap and useful). But new equipment in this instance fixed it, so that's what I have to go on (and yes we did hardware acceleration, and all those other fixes before the new machine, thankfully his old one took a blue screen death nap). But to your point, I also have one player running on a chromebook and my son uses an old surface tablet (like 3 or 4 generations back) and they work just fine. So it can't be just "new hardware" because they are running some relatively old / and-or / inexpensive pieces of gear and they aren't having any issues either. But you are right, not going backwards. The platform just can't. Somewhere they have to figure out what these bugs are and why some have poor experiences and many silent others (myself, you, and others) have had no bad -or even- mostly positive experiences with UDL. I'm not a programmer, but I have friends who are and I suspect that this isn't a simple answer or an easy fix. If it were, it would be fixed by now. Insinuating that a developer doesn't care about all user experiences and is intentionally not fixing something that they can is just blatantly wrong. I know first hand that programmers and developers care about how their work and creations are perceived, and that's how I know that if it was simple, it would be fixed by now. Unfortunately, this doesn't change the frustration for any user that can't get UDL to work as expected and that has to deal with bug issues. And eventually frustration leads to anger, and rightfully so. If I was paying for something, say a dishwasher, and months later it still didn't work right. I'd be pissed to. The whole project is flawed because its easily disabled by the client. All you need is any of the various adblockers and you have undetectable maphacks, sure you could combat this with only having trustworthy players but I personally still don't see the value of UDL vs LDL, they look the same to me, especially since explorer mode is broken still and not every tokenmod command works with it yet. If they had made it a toggle to go between the two with a simple mouse click I would gladly help test but because it literally is like pulling teeth to try to test it and it will always burn live playtime to troubleshoot, they purposely made switching and testing their pet project a chore, and that is why its a failed project to me, they just are disconnected from the actual user experience of their paying customer. The very fact they changed where and how to use LDL says everything to me about it. Instead of creating a toggle and making them identical in api keys, they made us all have to setup totally different things to use either system. It is unbelievably demoralizing to have a floor of the dungeon of the mad mage revealed to random players constantly, that just flat out breaks the table as suddenly a few players are walking around with full knowledge of where to go. That alone is why I will NEVER use UDL.