A better way to organize pages.

+ 1! WE NEED FOLDERS ! 

As mentioned previously , we have a plan for significant enhancements but we don't yet have a designated spot on the schedule. We are currently developing and supporting several features to handle critical needs. After those updates, we should be able to put in significant work towards meeting this request later in 2019.

kenton h. said: As mentioned previously , we have a plan for significant enhancements but we don't yet have a designated spot on the schedule. We are currently developing and supporting several features to handle critical needs. After those updates, we should be able to put in significant work towards meeting this request later in 2019. I appreciate the update and the youtube link. Looking forward to what sounds like lots of significant updates rolling out this year.

So, I've decided to let my subscription lapse after a couple years.  This issue, despite being Nolan's "#1 issue", and being discussed "every month" has not been even slightly improved in four years.  This isn't the only suggestion with hundreds of votes that's like that, but it's the simplest one to at least make minor improvements on.  We're not asking for perfect, just better. While right now there may very well be "features to handle critical needs" (like dealing with the loss of Fanburst), every single change that's been made over the last four years has had a higher priority than this one, which has consistently had among the highest number of votes... these votes are one of the benefits that we get by paying for our subscription, and they are clearly established by this suggestion as being of no value. It has felt like Quality of Life improvements like this one have simply been ignored by the Roll20 team... even this latest update only says "yeah, it's important, and we'll likely do it someday, I feel good about maybe this year" given that various plugins which address this (among other QoL issues) have been labeled as pirate software that violates the ToS, it means we're supposed to just keep hating core parts of the interface, but still continue to pay for support and " Additional Suggestion Forums Votes". It feels to me that the Roll20 team has prioritized additional marketplace revenue over improving QoL for existing customers. I'm not suggesting anyone else let their subscription lapse in some sort of protest, I just don't like to stop being a customer of a service without explaining my decision.  Doing that in this post seems like the most polite way of doing so.  I'm going to try to continue as a Roll20 user under the free subscription, and have deleted most of my assets and maps to get myself under the 100MB cap, but given the 5MB per-asset limit and the 100MB total limit, I'm not sure I'll be able stick around until this may hit likely this year.  Just removing my random encounter maps has really made me think that the free subscription won't meet my needs.  If I end up moving to a different platform, the inertia of having all my assets there will almost certainly prevent me from considering a move back in the future. It's been fun, and I do hope to not have to learn a new platform, but I'm no longer going to be supporting this one.

While the above post is completely understandable, I'd like to pinpoint that just blocking the page scrolling on the page loaded currently shouldn't be a hell of a development and it will be GREATLY appreciated by all users. For example: why the hell if I close the page settings bar do I need to scroll right again to, say, page 25th over 50 again? are you guys realizing how much time we lose in this operation?

As we continue to refine rendering on the Roll20 virtual tabletop, we are inching closer to this update. We're also in the middle of interviews for a new UI/UX  employee that will be heavily involved in this process. Currently, this looks like an update coming in the back half of 2019.

Thank you for keeping us updated! :-)

+1 ... this would be a huge time-saver!

+1 This is a must have!!!!

With fixes being delivered on A New Look, and the today's public launch of Bring Your Own Beat , more obstacles have been removed from this enhancement.

Kenton said: With fixes being delivered on A New Look, and the today's public launch of Bring Your Own Beat , more obstacles have been removed from this enhancement. As the originator of this four year old thread, I shout hurray!

+1. Seems like this is on the schedule, but I would like to add my support to the importance of this topic. This is critical for GMs with large campaigns.

Vishap said: +1. Seems like this is on the schedule... I don't want to appear cynical, but all that was really said is that some other stuff that was a higher priority is now done. It seems they want us to conclude that it is next, but doesn't actually say so.  I hope you are right, I would love to see this feature!

To be fair, they said a little more than that - namely, it's tentatively scheduled for launch in the latter half of the year. OT: After perusing through some of the more popular suggestion that hasn't yet seen implementation, I find a lot of semi-angry comments.  It makes me think, maybe this whole suggestion forum thing is backfiring on them since they can't seem to keep up with it, creating angry customers.  Maybe it was a mistake for them to open themselves to suggestions in the first place.

aisforanagrams said: To be fair, they said a little more than that - namely, it's tentatively scheduled for launch in the latter half of the year. I stand corrected! I only saw the last update and not the previous one.

aisforanagrams said: OT: After perusing through some of the more popular suggestion that hasn't yet seen implementation, I find a lot of semi-angry comments.  It makes me think, maybe this whole suggestion forum thing is backfiring on them since they can't seem to keep up with it, creating angry customers.  Maybe it was a mistake for them to open themselves to suggestions in the first place. The suggestion forum isn't creating angry customers, it's helping to keep the angry customers in one contained place rather than all over the forums (and all over the internet).  Not having a suggestion forum would be much worse.

The Bring Your Own Beat update has been launched. We are scheduling our work going forward, and preparation work for an update to the Page Menu is at the top of the list. Bring Your Own Beat also includes improvements to the organization tools available on Roll20. Manage Audio is a tool we've created to help create, organize, and move assets between games. The relationship between Tracks, Tags, and Playlists seem similar to the enhancements requested for organizing Pages. Let me know your opinion.

A track list can have many more entries than would be ideal for a page list. Folders would be nice, but might encourage inefficient and bloated campaigns. In other words, the audio assets function like a library in terms of memory management, but pages affect performance. One level of folders might be helpful, but would probably cause more problems than they solve in the long run, assuming Roll20 does not have plans to change how pages load into a game. Far better would be a vertical orientation, with smaller thumbnails, giving you a list of pages. The thumbnails should be more in keeping with the size used by the image library, and like the image library could show a larger image when hovered over. Many, many more pages would fit on the tab, with little to no scrolling. The image, audio libraries, and the characters and handouts tabs all work this way. In fact, every other list of assets work this way. I would suggest that either the current tab become vertically oriented, or the page tab to be added to the right hand sidebar and given a similar look and feel. If needed, folders could be incorporated at this point to user the same interface elements that characters and handouts do.

keithcurtis said: Far better would be a vertical orientation, with smaller thumbnails, giving you a list of pages. The thumbnails should be more in keeping with the size used by the image library, and like the image library could show a larger image when hovered over. Many, many more pages would fit on the tab, with little to no scrolling. The image, audio libraries, and the characters and handouts tabs all work this way. In fact, every other list of assets work this way. I would suggest that either the current tab become vertically oriented, or the page tab to be added to the right hand sidebar and given a similar look and feel. If needed, folders could be incorporated at this point to user the same interface elements that characters and handouts do. I agree, Keith. Vertical is the way to go. I think it should be vertical, but I think it better that it was it's own "drop down" or "slide out" from the left hand side of the screen... Or even a new tool in the left Toolbox (say, the last tool that you click and then the pages column slides in from the Left). I wouldn't want it as another tab on the Right, as I already have to shuffle between those tabs fairly quickly during a game.

+1. Keep it simple, elegant, efficient and easy to use.

One problem with working like everything else is that it does not share similar functions: dragging people to a page, separately or together, or between pages, entails having the correct pages open, visible, and navigable from the page you're currently on... making those targets smaller increases time to target and reduces the utility of seeing where people are. 

a checkbox for players instead of dragging a ribbon would be better. expandable folders would be good, so would a separate place to sort through maps instead of the drop down on top.

+1. Tags or folders would be nice. Filtering through dozens of archived pages can be a burden in West Marches style campaigns, as is scrolling the page bar for all maps in the region.

Duncan said: a checkbox for players instead of dragging a ribbon would be better. expandable folders would be good, so would a separate place to sort through maps instead of the drop down on top. THIS. The thing I hate most about the pages/map menu is having to drag a cumbersome ribbon or the like around. Just, please, let me click on where I want players to go, especially without ages and ages of side-scrolling. Vertical integration with simple checkboxes (party/player1/player2/etc.) would be even more valuable than folders (though folders would also be great, especially for areas grouped significantly together, etc.).

Dave said: Duncan said: a checkbox for players instead of dragging a ribbon would be better. expandable folders would be good, so would a separate place to sort through maps instead of the drop down on top. THIS. The thing I hate most about the pages/map menu is having to drag a cumbersome ribbon or the like around. Just, please, let me click on where I want players to go, especially without ages and ages of side-scrolling. Vertical integration with simple checkboxes (party/player1/player2/etc.) would be even more valuable than folders (though folders would also be great, especially for areas grouped significantly together, etc.). I agree with Dave and Duncan, expanding checkboxes is the better UI. As long as we have multiply nested subheadings.  So headings could contain both maps and subheads and the subheads contain maps and sub-subheads and so on. Allowing for at least four levels of nesting should get most of it quickly organized.

How can it be that this suggestion is 4 years old and this is still the #1 gripe I hear from other GMs? How is it people are still having to use custom CSS workarounds with plugins?!?

Yah this is really needed. I'm constantly digging for maps. 

How is this even " obstructed " when you can use a 2 step work around with a Chrome extension and some custom CSS copy/pasted from this thread??!?!?!? You could literally put that code into the page template and have an interim solution that would make 90% of users happy...

Mike L. said: How is this even " obstructed " when you can use a 2 step work around with a Chrome extension and some custom CSS copy/pasted from this thread??!?!?!? You could literally put that code into the page template and have an interim solution that would make 90% of users happy... I don't know about the Chrome extensions, as I'm a Firefox user, but the CSS trick in this thread doesn't really solve the problem I'm talking about. Sure, it rearranges the pages into a 2D grid but as the number of pages grows large, the problem returns, a lot of scrolling and searching has to happen anyway. Page folders need to happen. This is probably the single biggest UI improvement I can think of for the Roll20 tool.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and I'm sorry this response is late. From the conversation since my last update, I'm taking away these notes: Optimize screen area - put as much useful information as possible in the Page Menu Vertical scrolling is the way to go Moving players should happen at the point you want to move the players to Moving players should not require click-and-drag Games with a lot of Pages need a better way to find them The first two of these are changes to the layout and user interface, but the other three will require more than front end work. Thanks again for the thoughts.

It would interesting to see the map page toolbar be listed as a tab like the journal or art tab. Have it setup similar to the folders being displayed in the art tab along with being able to click on a button "show players" which would automatically move everyone to that map page. Even if the click and drag stays, this method shown below could make it easier to work with. The second tab icon is a map icon I found online.

I'm new to Roll20, and thought the lack of page/map organization was something I was missing. How can it be that finding your campaign maps and putting players there is so hard and time-consuming to accomplish? It boggles the mind. Open up a copy of powerpoint and look at the ways of finding slides in a presentation. It should be at least that easy. This is key.  Even a (vertical) scroll that remains on the current chosen page/map thumbnail would work - with the ability to then click the player flag onto it (rather than having to go searching for it and dragging it over).  Not sure what Roll20 is "working on" but this is a glaring need. Please! Oh, and while you are in there - how about a hotkey or two to go to specific pages/maps while moving players there!

Or, lose the numbers and just do hierarchical thumbnails.

John S. said: Or, lose the numbers and just do hierarchical thumbnails. A little off topic, but I see you use map pages for your scene pictures. You don't use Handouts? Any reason why not? PS. Love your mockups. I reckon that would work well.

I like the theatricality of a big reveal. I don't like that handouts come over like small attachments they have to open. I like a slideshow, revealing one image after another to tell the story. At home, I use a large TV on the wall and keep a visual image up there. I wish one had the ability to run an actual slideshow in Roll20, then cut to the map when needed.

John S. said: I like the theatricality of a big reveal. I don't like that handouts come over like small attachments they have to open. I like a slideshow, revealing one image after another to tell the story. At home, I use a large TV on the wall and keep a visual image up there. I wish one had the ability to run an actual slideshow in Roll20, then cut to the map when needed. I like it... That would make for a good Suggestion item - that Handouts go full screen, and you can click through multiple images like a slideshow.

Pat S. said: It would interesting to see the map page toolbar be listed as a tab like the journal or art tab. Have it setup similar to the folders being displayed in the art tab along with being able to click on a button "show players" which would automatically move everyone to that map page. Even if the click and drag stays, this method shown below could make it easier to work with. The second tab icon is a map icon I found online. I agree with Pat S. This should be the way map pages are handled. That's the closest to my original idea.

Pat S. said: It would interesting to see the map page toolbar be listed as a tab like the journal or art tab. Have it setup similar to the folders being displayed in the art tab along with being able to click on a button "show players" which would automatically move everyone to that map page. Even if the click and drag stays, this method shown below could make it easier to work with. The second tab icon is a map icon I found online. This would be great, you can give me thumbnails for tokens and other items. So why not maps also? Can't wait to see some changes to the maps, one of my biggest frustrations right now as a GM.

Like most GMS I have campaigns with dozens and dozens of live maps (by 'live' maps I mean maps that it would be very inconvenient to archive). Currently I have to drag each map horizontally across the map bar every time I want to rearrange them for a given session. This can be very tiresome. It would be very helpful to have a screen when I could easily reorder my maps. Or a quick "Move to End" or "Move to Beginning" function. Or Folders to allow me to drill down to certain map types Or Filters to show only maps with a given flag or keyword. Hope this proves helpful, The Claw.

John S. said: I like the theatricality of a big reveal. I don't like that handouts come over like small attachments they have to open. I like a slideshow, revealing one image after another to tell the story. At home, I use a large TV on the wall and keep a visual image up there. I wish one had the ability to run an actual slideshow in Roll20, then cut to the map when needed. Mark said: I like it... That would make for a good Suggestion item - that Handouts go full screen, and you can click through multiple images like a slideshow. You can zoom a handout and token using Z and Shift+Z Pressing "Z" with an object selected shows a larger version of that object in a modal popup Pressing Shift+Z as the GM shows all players the larger version of that object. Note that only players and DMs that are on the same page as the selected token will see the modal pop-up. Source: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Keyboard_Shortcuts#Miscellaneous" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Keyboard_Shortcuts#Miscellaneous</a>

+1 Vote from me! Would love to organize my maps by location!

Feel free to make incremental improvements, no need to wait until a fully redesigned Page Toolbar experience is ready before releasing something. Incremental update suggestions: 1. keep scroll position when page toolbar is closed and reopened, or auto-scroll to current page (seriously, this would be an easy fix that you can release right away, and is sooo needed) 2. A "move players here" button on a page in the toolbar (and/or on the page you are viewing). Kenton mentioned that this might require more than front end work, which I don't fully understand In the redesigned pages, I'd love to see 1. folders 2. tagging 3. search 4. a "quick list", allowing a DM to add pages that they predict will be useful during the current session 5. a "next page" button or shortcut so you don't have to open the pages bar for linear portions of the adventure 6. links: i don't know if these could be made to work for just the GM, but if you had GM notes for a character giving a sidequest with a link to the relevant page in the GM notes, or a link to a page from the sidequest's dm-only handout, that would be pretty cool

Pat S. said: It would interesting to see the map page toolbar be listed as a tab like the journal or art tab. Have it setup similar to the folders being displayed in the art tab along with being able to click on a button "show players" which would automatically move everyone to that map page. Even if the click and drag stays, this method shown below could make it easier to work with. The second tab icon is a map icon I found online. Something like this would be absolutely perfect. I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but organizing and moving between maps is currently a nightmare once you pass the 20+ mark. Doubly so since both the transmogrifier and module add-ons seem love plonking maps in completely random spots in the toolbar. Reese W. &nbsp;said: 1. keep scroll position when page toolbar is closed and reopened, or auto-scroll to current page (seriously, this would be an easy fix that you can release right away, and is sooo needed) 2. A "move players here" button on a page in the toolbar (and/or on the page you are viewing). Kenton mentioned that this might require more than front end work, which I don't fully understand But until then, this would be a reasonably satisfying stop-gap, and go some way towards making things somewhat less infuriating.

does the roll20 team have any updates? a few lines of javascript could provide significant ui improvements -- please message me if more details are needed. hopefully I am still allowed to ask for updates without being deleted.

The last response from Roll20 was two months ago.&nbsp; And while it may seem as if only a few lines of JavaScript are required, planning for, implementing and testing new changes does take time.&nbsp; Also, six months ago they informed us that Roll20 was hiring new UI programmers, which takes time. However, if it's another several months and we still haven't seen any improvement than we'll know that Roll20 prioritizes a constant influx of new customers rather than keeping old ones.&nbsp; And it's roll out of new features, as opposed to improvements to old features, will reflect that prioritization.

It's within my best interest to say: As someone with a lot of hours invested and money. The phrasing for anyone viewing this. [It is really, hurting my heart as a dedicated individual despite any other content and reviews people have made... to find a large community whom invest there inputs and take the time to vote and look through this forum category... Just to see *update* after *update* after *update* ....have been mainly focused around the $$$ spectrum... and yet these... these incredible. Amazing ideas which simplify our lives to enjoy our hobbies. But; We are here... still watching the votes climb. Watching the comments grow.... and you know's C R A Z Y&nbsp; &nbsp;about all this? Just listening to the public -- would generate more $$$ flow... then making already $$$ features grow. Shouldn't Business focus on what makes people happy so they can throw more money towards... What lunaticikal madness have I witnessed.] I still however, do love and enjoy Roll20. For what content it has I'll continue to use it. It's there freedom and choice; -- We shouldn't be having to struggle for simplistic designs, however.

As the thread's originator, over four years ago, I'm grateful for all public input on this thread. I'm just glad to know I'm not the only one who wants this.&nbsp; I'd love to see this bumped off "Obstructed" to "Queued" status.

I am a developer, I work in this field. I know for a certainty a few lines of javascript would dramatically improve functionality while they figure out a more permanent fix. As for why this has not happened, I do not know, and to speculate would likely get my reply deleted. Can roll20 please provide us an update? I find it very telling that resources go into forum moderation, essentially stifling discussion, instead of forum outreach to explain what the roll20 team is doing. Please provide us an update, please tell me how to best beg for an update. Thank roll20 team for all your amazing work. I really look forward to an update on this 4+ year old UI issue. Thank you!