[Warhammer Fantasy 4th] Sheet for Sigmar

I've incorporated Gigs changes.&nbsp; And Richard T. I took a bit of your advice and did borrow a couple of your things.&nbsp; 1.3 is here&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/vicberg/Roll20-Warhammer-4e-Character-Sheet" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/vicberg/Roll20-Warhammer-4e-Character-Sheet</a>

Halp, I'm an hour in and only halfway through the sheet for translations.&nbsp; Havoc, I hope you download this sheet once its uploaded for future updates cause I will murder you if you try an update without translations again.&nbsp;

Pull request in, should be updated in the next week.&nbsp;

Richard T. said: Halp, I'm an hour in and only halfway through the sheet for translations.&nbsp; Havoc, I hope you download this sheet once its uploaded for future updates cause I will murder you if you try an update without translations again.&nbsp; Checked it, it's all red. You need to generate the translation.json file with the script. Once you have formatted your sheet, following the instructions above, you can very easily create your translation file. After loading your sheet within the editor, &nbsp;go into the game, &nbsp;and there open the Developer Tools for your browser and go to the console. At the very bottom of the console, where you can enter code, type "i18nOutput". (it will most likely start to auto-complete once you start typing) Hit enter to retrieve this object, and it will dump a JSON string containing all of the keys you have used with the corresponding text from within the element/placeholder. You should be able to then copy this text into your favorite JSON formatter (optional, but recommended) and then into the "Translation" tab in the Game Settings Custom Sheet area.

I just re-pasted the translation file to check and it still shows up clean in-game :((((((

@Victor B.&nbsp;&nbsp; Victor!!!&nbsp;&nbsp; That looks GREAT!!!&nbsp; Thank you !! Really nice job. The colors work really well and all the changes and new features!&nbsp; I think it should be announced over at the FB group if that's okay. &nbsp;

@Havoc @Richard T.&nbsp; I know your work will help a lot of people new to WFRP4e and new to Roll20 that use Firefox. It will save hours of frustration and&nbsp; having a sheet that works with the skills, that they can simply choose from the dropdown when creating a campaign, will make it easy for them to just jump right in and play. Coders and programmers are the Dwarven Blacksmiths of our time, creating the tools we need to survive!&nbsp; hehe,..&nbsp; Thanks so much guys. &nbsp; &nbsp;

Victor B. said: I've incorporated Gigs changes.&nbsp; And Richard T. I took a bit of your advice and did borrow a couple of your things.&nbsp; 1.3 is here&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/vicberg/Roll20-Warhammer-4e-Character-Sheet" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/vicberg/Roll20-Warhammer-4e-Character-Sheet</a> For people who cant read code: there's now a hidden attribute called CurrentWounds, which you can set on Tokens. For new characters it will be created automatically. For existing characters, you might need to alter your wounds temporarily stat to get it to be created. If so, just do something like adding 10 to Toughness and then subtracting it again.&nbsp; This stat is separate from the damage and impale damage boxes on the combat tab. I wasnt sure how they worked - I'm not familiar with 4e, and wasnt sure what Imp or why it needed ti be tracked separately did so didnt feel comfortable editing that section of the sheet.

@Gig there's only one issue.&nbsp; Halflings don't get the strength added into the wounds.&nbsp; All other races do.&nbsp; At one point, I had something built around the race drop down that when halfling was selected it subtracted out the strength bonus.&nbsp; It didn't work, so i used a negative modifer to adjust the wounds.&nbsp; Same can be done here.&nbsp; Defensive adds a +1 SL (or in essence +10) to the target number.&nbsp; If you have a 53 weapon skill, a defensive weapon makes that 63.&nbsp; A weapon with impale quality does a critical hit on any roll ending in 0 (10, 20, 30, etc) in addition to the normal criticals caused by doubles (11, 22, 33 etc).&nbsp; There's a section that checks for impale criticals and display a critical accordingly.&nbsp;&nbsp;

The real challenge for someone who knows sheet worker functionality is there's skills in repeating sections that come over into the combat repeating sections.&nbsp; For example, under skills, melee, you can have basic, cavalry, parry, polearm, two handed.&nbsp; You can then specialize in these skill groups..&nbsp; Over under combat, the weapons uses the appropriate skill.&nbsp; &nbsp;I don't believe sheet workers can do this, but a drop down on the combat sections showing the skills and final results from the skills, melee and ranged repeating sections.&nbsp; &nbsp;The alternative is to remove melee and ranged as repeating and put in every possible group associated with the skill.&nbsp; I didn't do that because I don't want these pages to become too vertical and melee alone has up to 10 groups associated with melee.&nbsp; My work around is to have the player copy his total weapon skills and ranged skills from the skills into the WS and BS columns under combat.&nbsp; This works fine.&nbsp;&nbsp;

@Brett. what FB group?&nbsp;&nbsp;

Victor B. said: @Gig there's only one issue.&nbsp; Halflings don't get the 2xtoughness bonus for wounds.&nbsp; Easy work around is to put in a negative modifier to adjust the wounds accordingly.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'll send you a fix for that later.&nbsp; Defensive adds a +1 SL (or in essence +10) to the target number.&nbsp; If you have a 53 weapon skill, a defensive weapon makes that 63.&nbsp; A weapon with impale quality does a critical hit on any roll ending in 0 (10, 20, 30, etc) in addition to the normal criticals caused by doubles (11, 22, 33 etc).&nbsp; There's a section that checks for impale criticals and display a critical accordingly.&nbsp;&nbsp; It looks like the damage section treats impale as a fixed bonus to damage, which&nbsp; doesnt match what youre saying here exactly. So I'm not sure what that impale box is for on the combat tab. The real challenge for someone who knows sheet worker functionality is there's skills in repeating sections that come over into the combat repeating sections.&nbsp; For example, under skills, melee, you can have basic, cavalry, parry, polearm, two handed.&nbsp; You can then specialize in these skill groups..&nbsp; Over under combat, the weapons uses the appropriate skill.&nbsp; &nbsp;I don't believe sheet workers can do this, but a drop down on the combat sections showing the skills and final results from the skills, melee and ranged repeating sections.&nbsp; &nbsp;The alternative is to remove melee and ranged as repeating and put in every possible group associated with the skill.&nbsp; I didn't do that because I don't want these pages to become too vertical and melee alone has up to 10 groups associated with melee.&nbsp; My work around is to have the player copy his total weapon skills and ranged skills from the skills into the WS and BS columns under combat.&nbsp; This works fine.&nbsp;&nbsp; One thing CoalPowered Puppet does on his sheets (see his traveller sheet for example) using CSS is to have a config section where people can click which skills to display or hide, and then they appear in the skills section. So you could have all the Melee and Ranged weapons defined as normal, not repeating stats, and just let people tick boxes to show which of them to display and hide the rest. That would make integrating with the weapons list much easier. You could give people a drop down to show which skills to pick and use their values directly. It is &nbsp;possible to do this with repeating section too, but a little more complicated. In the repeating section for weapons, you'd need a dropdown for the subskill (parry, polearm, etc), so that its not reliant on players spelling them correctly. Then when the value changes, a sheet worker can update the relevant value in the weapons list.&nbsp; So players wouldnt have to manually copy over their skill values. Having a non-repeating weapon skill list does make it a fair bit easier though.

@Victor B.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Facebook group Here:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/1718549725113205/?ref=bookmarks" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/groups/1718549725113205/?ref=bookmarks</a>

@gig, you're talking about the impale under wounds.&nbsp; That's a bit tricky.&nbsp; If you are hit with an impale weapon like an arrow or bolt, you can heal all except 1 point.&nbsp; That 1 point represents the arrow head still inside you.&nbsp; That can only be healed by someone who uses surgery to pull it out.&nbsp; So what I do is when hit with a bolt or arrow, 1 point goes into impale, the rest into damage.&nbsp; If hit by a second arrow or bolt, another point is added to impale and the rest to damage.&nbsp;&nbsp; At one point I may not have had impale adding into the total wounds.&nbsp; I was just using that field to track the number of impale hits and the actual damage was placed in the damage field.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Okay guys. I really want to move my players and npcs to the new sheet. I am really scared. So,.. just to make absolutely certain, before I do, I would like someone to verify I have all the steps down and in the correct order. 1. Copy all characters and npcs to the character vault. 2. Erase the HTML, CSS, and Translation data. 3. Copy/paste the New HTML, CSS and translation code to the game. 4. Restore all characters and npcs to the game. 5. I assume I would need to recreate all the tokens? or does that copy over as well and I just need to assign them to the proper characters again? Thanks for any advice.&nbsp;

You dont need steps 1, 4, and 5. Just do 2, 3. New step 1: make a backup copy of the campaign. If you are changing from one sheet to a different sheet, you are likely to 'lose' a lot of data. If they use different attribute names, then the old attributes will still be in the journal but wont be displayed on the character sheets. If they aren't in repeating sections, you can find them on the Attributes and Abilities tab (or open your backup campaign in a different browser, and check them from there).

<a href="https://pastebin.com/RebPv3se" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/RebPv3se</a> - HTML (Edited; Fixed a few faults) <a href="https://pastebin.com/8BwdxHL5" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/8BwdxHL5</a> - CSS Fixed the issue of 01-05 being a critical, as well as 96-98 being a fumble. Added; Psychology, Mutations, and made injuries&amp;afflictions a bit more distinct on the character sheet so it is not so easy to overlook. Oh, and XP is now calculating how much you have remaining on&nbsp; your total XP after you have spent XP. As such you might want to write down your characters current XP BEFORE CHANGING to this version.

:( Looks like we've diverged versions, the one I submitted last week isn't mergeable with this one because we've vastly changed the layout and added the translation tags.Its nice that people have picked up the sheet again but it'd be nice if people learned to use github to track versioning. @Arioch, the changes that Havoc submitted was approved just today and will likely be pulled up into roll20 tomorrow and will be on the roll20 github if you want to grab a fresh copy and see what changes you can transfer easily.&nbsp;

You may not be able to use Github, but beyond compare is a great free tool to compare files and merge changes.&nbsp;&nbsp;

@Arioch, the new version just dropped here&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/WFRP4CharSheet" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/WFRP4CharSheet</a>

Hi all, I just came back from vacation and saw lots of activity on this thread, which is awesome. Thank you all for the hard work on those sheets. Now, I am unclear as to the situation with both the official sheet and Victor's sheet. It appears Victor's is v1.3, but the official sheet isn't final? Thanks

A majority of the sheets that are available on Roll20 are community-created, there's really nothing 'official' about it except that its been made available to free users by Sheet Authors. They are perhaps official in that the roll20 staff do comb through the sheets and have standards about things like Translation tags and such before uploading to the roll20 github servers.&nbsp; That being said, the Roll20 sheet will hopefully continue to get better as community sheet authors have time and energy to invest into the sheet.&nbsp;

Ok, by “official”, I mean the one from Arioch that is available for free users. It seems changes were made as well but unclear whether its finalized.

Okay, so what do you mean by 'finalized'? Did the update lose character information?

Reading above, you mentioned a new version on August 6, but before, on August 5, you mention a divergence in the code, so basically I am at a loss to know which to grab to have the “final” character sheet.

Richard T. said: :( Looks like we've diverged versions, the one I submitted last week isn't mergeable with this one because we've vastly changed the layout and added the translation tags.Its nice that people have picked up the sheet again but it'd be nice if people learned to use github to track versioning. @Arioch, the changes that Havoc submitted was approved just today and will likely be pulled up into roll20 tomorrow and will be on the roll20 github if you want to grab a fresh copy and see what changes you can transfer easily.&nbsp; If you are referring to the tabbed version, no thank you. I more prefer then non-tabbed version. Ceodryn said: Ok, by “official”, I mean the one from Arioch that is available for free users. It seems changes were made as well but unclear whether its finalized. Well. As I said, it is not finished. I had a lot of things to add, when people was starting to diverge with it, add to it etc. Which is why I stopped updating the github version. Things were changing and breaking faster than I could sort out my basic ideas. Ideally I would not have done anything with the sheet for a very long time; but it is what it is.

To be clear, my version is NOT "official" nor do I care to make it official.&nbsp; I am posting it up under my own github and will continue to do so.&nbsp; It's a port from the "official" 2e version.&nbsp; I've put in the critical hit, oops, wrath of god, miscast charts into it and I've integrated Gigs sheet worker changes so wounds will now show up under tokens.&nbsp; I recently changed the look and feel.&nbsp; I may do some additional work with it in the future, but it's solid and battle tested so I'm probably not going to do more with it for a while.&nbsp; My version is here&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/vicberg/Roll20-Warhammer-4e-Character-Sheet" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/vicberg/Roll20-Warhammer-4e-Character-Sheet</a> The "official" version was made by Arioch.&nbsp; That being said, it started diverging almost right after he posted it.&nbsp; Honestly, no one should have made changes and committed them to the official Roll20 source without asking him, but that's what happened.&nbsp; It's continued to this day and now there's a bit of a mess out there.&nbsp; It would be akin to me changing TheAarons code and committing it back to Roll20 source without asking him.&nbsp; I can only imagine that people were so excited to have a 4e version character sheet that they couldn't wait for Arioch to make his changes.&nbsp; So without asking, they made changes and committed them back.&nbsp; I've said before Github sucks.&nbsp; It doesn't have robust merging functionality.&nbsp; To fix this, I'd highly suggest someone reach out to Arioch and work through who is going to support this going forward.&nbsp; Anyone else wanting to make changes, make them but don't commit them to Roll20.&nbsp; Post them in your own github.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;

Okay, I don't know where this drama suddenly came from. Havoc's tabbed version is coming in after 6-months from the last Github update, which was a CSS update and not a feature update, which was four months after the last feature update to Roll20; Nearly a year since the initial upload.&nbsp; Yeah, maybe its a too many cooks in the kitchen problem, but let's be clear here: We're not coworkers, we don't have a Slack where we're declaring we've got the sheet checked out for development. What we have are statements like "I'm glad someone else is picking up the torch" or "I'm not supporting this sheet" or just straight up silence. Victor B, you suggested that the sheet was no longer supported by anyone as recently as a month ago. So don't be making drama about "diverged almost right after he posted" when the sheet went on Roll20 in October 2018 and saw one update the following month in November. I get my ass up to reinstall translation tags that another community member spent hours on to implement for Havoc's update; which is fine, I took it on myself to save the work other translators have put in, which comes 9 MONTHS after the last feature update, cause this can happen in an open-source environment, you suck it up and do what you can. And now Arioch comes in with another update that also doesn't have translation tags, which has been up in the Github for 9 MONTHS . This is just a fact of open-source development, which ought to be easy to suck it up since Havoc and Arioch were passing the sheet back and forth quite a bit in the first few pages of this sheet development. What I have no-sympathy for is for a developer who suggests a 9-month update after the initial upload to be some sort of break-neck speed of bewildering quality.&nbsp; As far as Victor's "It would be akin to me changing TheAarons code and committing it back to Roll20 source without asking him." This is Havoc's sheet.&nbsp; Which shouldn't super matter because everyone has been super supportive about other people helping out with the sheet since the initiation of this character sheet . Its going to be the case that multiple people are invested in making a good sheet that is available for free-users to use, which is necessary because Roll20 isn't about to have three versions of a Warhammer Fantasy 4E sheet. Cooperation is necessary when content is only produced by passionate people.&nbsp; PS. I also just noticed that Arioch posted a paste-bin 3-months ago that I didn't update to GitHub, which I would've if I saw it but at the moment I'm not sure I care to apologize when people suddenly start developing an ego about people touching the project and making me having to go "Oh technically, so-and-so started this project" like some asshole; Especially since he is perfectly capable of updating to the Roll20 Github himself.

For what it is worth, from a user perspective, I am super thankful to all of you to be updating your various documents - even if I am a little lost in which to use - I will figure it out and am glad there are actually documents for Wfrp4!

This is my vision that I had back then, and maybe it will help development for any who goes forward; 1. Simple character sheet in the style of the paper sheet for the game. 2. Each section of the sheet needs to have a unified look and way of working with it. So that it is easy and not a hassle do find what you need to do. As it is now, the character sheet is a mix of visual styles. This needs to be cleaned up. 3. Features I never got in there; Calculating spent XP based on if skills are a class skill or not and the number of advances. Calculating spent xp based on talents and their ranks. Included critical hit tables. Included ,miscast tables. A drop down table for critical injuries that applies the effects to the character. An advantage tracker for each character that automatically applies the modifiers to tests. Mutation and psychology section. Condition tracker with explanations of the different conditions. 4. Remain a sheet that does not require a pro subscription or the API to use.

Richard T. said: PS. I also just noticed that Arioch posted a paste-bin 3-months ago that I didn't update to GitHub, which I would've if I saw it but at the moment I'm not sure I care to apologize when people suddenly start developing an ego about people touching the project and making me having to go "Oh technically, so-and-so started this project" like some asshole; Especially since he is perfectly capable of updating to the Roll20 Github himself. I am sorry, I did not mean to sound like an ahole. I have just been frustrated that there was such a massive call for translation tags in the middle of me trying to sort out the character sheet. Especially since I spent quite a lot of time sorting out why certain parts of the character sheet did not work after they had been introduced. As I wrote in the beginning, I have learned html and css while doing this project. This meant there was a slow progression of development. I keep on working on my version. But it should probably not be seen as official anymore as havoc is has gone back to develop it. My version is more of a alternate version at this point. And I will only update my version as my work proceeds. I will not post it to github simply because of the headache of merging different versions. I am glad that the community keeps on developing stuff for WFRP, and I hope it will continue in the good spirit of cooperation that it began. We are all here to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, not argue about rights to code or other bullshit.

@Arioch, if not posted on github, will users like myself still have access to it? I’d hate for options to be closed to us because of programming version control matters. Thanks again to all of you for your hard work!

Ceodryn said: @Arioch, if not posted on github, will users like myself still have access to it? I’d hate for options to be closed to us because of programming version control matters. Thanks again to all of you for your hard work! Yes, I will keep pastebin link it here. Sorry I should have mentioned that. I had just woken up so I forgot to include what was obvious to me :P

I've added a button to have "non-tabbed" sheet, all in one. html:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/GRSBLh4i" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/GRSBLh4i</a> css:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/LgkQKxCY" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/LgkQKxCY</a> Where there any more issues with the sheet or something?

Havoc said: I've added a button to have "non-tabbed" sheet, all in one. html:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/GRSBLh4i" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/GRSBLh4i</a> css:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/LgkQKxCY" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/LgkQKxCY</a> Where there any more issues with the sheet or something? Awesome, you did what I was just considering. :D Btw, the d100 rolls that do critical on 01-05, and critical failure on 96-100 needs to be changed if you have not. That is an optional rule in the game. All instances of 1d100cs01cs02cs03cs04cs05cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cf96cf97cf98cf99cf100 Needs to replaced with: 1d100cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cs99

Arioch1973 said: Havoc said: I've added a button to have "non-tabbed" sheet, all in one. html:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/GRSBLh4i" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/GRSBLh4i</a> css:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/LgkQKxCY" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/LgkQKxCY</a> Where there any more issues with the sheet or something? Awesome, you did what I was just considering. :D Btw, the d100 rolls that do critical on 01-05, and critical failure on 96-100 needs to be changed if you have not. That is an optional rule in the game. All instances of 1d100cs01cs02cs03cs04cs05cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cf96cf97cf98cf99cf100 Needs to replaced with: 1d100cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cs99 How about both? &lt;div&gt; &lt;div class="sheet-col" style="width:48%; " &gt; &lt;h4 data-i18n="ROLLS" &gt;ROLLS&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;select name="attr_custom_roll_style" style="width:70%" class="sheet-input-selectbox" &gt; &lt;option value="" selected data-i18n="Public"&gt;Public&lt;/option&gt; &lt;option value="/w gm" data-i18n="Whisper GM"&gt;Whisper GM&lt;/option&gt; &lt;/select&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;div class="sheet-col" style="width:2%; "&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;div class="sheet-col" style="width:48%; " &gt; &lt;h4 data-i18n="CRITICALS" &gt;CRITICALS&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;select name="attr_custom_roll_criticals" style="width:70%" class="sheet-input-selectbox" &gt; &lt;option value="1d100cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cs99" selected data-i18n="Normal Criticals" &gt;Normal Criticals&lt;/option&gt; &lt;option value="1d100cs01cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cs99cf100" data-i18n="Criticals on 1, fumbles on 00"&gt;Criticals on 1, fumbles on 00&lt;/option&gt; &lt;option value="1d100cs01cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cf96cf97cf98cf99cf100" data-i18n="Criticals on 1, fumbles on 96-00"&gt;Criticals on 1, fumbles on 96-00&lt;/option&gt; &lt;option value="1d100cs01cs02cs03cs04cs05cs11cs22cs33cs44cs55cs66cs77cs88cf96cf97cf98cf99cf100" data-i18n="Criticals on 1-5, fumbles on 96-00"&gt;Criticals on 1-5, fumbles on 96-00&lt;/option&gt; &lt;/select&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; Edit: Html:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/bCp0NYY8" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/bCp0NYY8</a> css:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/wy1Umzib" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/wy1Umzib</a> translation file:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/G2bmk68t" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/G2bmk68t</a>

Arioch1973 said: I am sorry, I did not mean to sound like an ahole. I have just been frustrated that there was such a massive call for translation tags in the middle of me trying to sort out the character sheet. For what it's worth, I volunteer to try add translation tags to a sheet that that doesn't have them, a while back I made a script to to speed up the otherwise repetitive and time-consuming task. If we're talking about the "WFRP2E-Havoc" sheet or something based on it, I think I could get a pretty good result in a fairly short time.

No drama here.&nbsp; Someone pick up the ball and say, "I'm going to support this" so everyone knows to reach out to you.&nbsp; This person should get the blessing of Arioch and make sure he's cool with it.&nbsp; Then work with the other contributors for a single cohesive version.&nbsp; It's either Havoc or Richard, atm, assuming they want to do it.&nbsp;&nbsp; And don't forget Beyond Compare.&nbsp; Excellent free tool to merge two files if Github starts complaining.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Proof of concept: WFRP2E sheet by Havoc translated 80% in a bit over 20 min. The script produced some mistakes as always, but fixing them wouldn't take much time for me. Send me a message when if there is a major version that is in need of translation, and I'll see what my scriptomancy can produce. :D Edit: Oh, you got the sheet translated already Havoc said: Edit: Html:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/bCp0NYY8" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/bCp0NYY8</a> css:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/wy1Umzib" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/wy1Umzib</a> translation file:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/G2bmk68t" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/G2bmk68t</a> Out of curiosity, how long did it take to do the translation tags &amp; make the translation.json ?

And Richard, I read your post again.&nbsp; I wasn't putting anyone on the spot.&nbsp; I understand that the sheet wasn't touched for a while and you grabbed the ball.&nbsp; Havoc has grabbed the ball also.&nbsp; That's great.&nbsp; This missing step is making yourself (or Havoc) the "official" supporter, assuming you want to do that or Havoc does..&nbsp; Clear the path with Arioch, and I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have issues, and then EVERYONE knows to come to you with contributions and/or change requests.&nbsp; Without someone "officially" supporting this sheet, you'll continue to have these types of issues crop up.&nbsp; .&nbsp;&nbsp;

Hello all, As a friendly reminder going forward, d iscussions on Roll20 should always maintain a tone of respect and civility. Any further discourse&nbsp;regression will be subject to moderation action. Thank you for your understanding.&nbsp;

Andreas J. said: Havoc said: Edit: Html:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/bCp0NYY8" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/bCp0NYY8</a> css:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/wy1Umzib" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/wy1Umzib</a> translation file:&nbsp; <a href="https://pastebin.com/G2bmk68t" rel="nofollow">https://pastebin.com/G2bmk68t</a> Out of curiosity, how long did it take to do the translation tags &amp; make the translation.json ? Translation.json is a second, you have this information in the roll20 wiki. Putting the tags is a chore, that's why I didn't add them first time. Richard did.

The 218 line translation file took about 2 hours.

As far as ownership goes, its going to be a bit tricky. While we're being open about our frustrations, the initial problem of versioning is the biggest issue. It sounds like Arioch is interested in pursuing a private GitHub version similar to Victor's so perhaps Havoc will be the primary coder here.&nbsp; I do have some lingering interest in working on the sheet but I will need to insist that Havoc learn how to use Github. As mentioned, the loss of the translation tags happened to both committed versions, which means their code base hadn't been updated in 9-months from what is available to the Roll20 users. At a glance, you can tell that the update I did with Havoc's sheet carried in my css but stomped my html changes.&nbsp; Before the update:&nbsp; After the update: (Note the lack of the career label and the Total/Roll columns are separate again) Honestly, I'm a bit proud that my CSS somehow managed to survive despite the loss of any of my HTML changes. But this highlights a problem where only one of the three of us is updating to the github and are taking in changes by the other authors. It is incredibly frustrating to have year-old code be stomped. So yeah, I have some interest but at the same time not at all if I can't trust developers to do what I consider to be minimal version merging.&nbsp; I will throw the biggest conniption if down the road someone tries to post up some code that also lacks translation tags.&nbsp;

If havoc is maintaining his own private version, Richard, why dont you post your current version to the official github? At least it'll be a stable version that contains all the current changes.

I haven't come out and said it, but Richard, you've pushed this forward.&nbsp; Get on board with Arioch and become the owner and update Roll20.&nbsp; Then use Beyond Compare, at your leisure, to compare Arioch's versions and Havoc's version to yours.&nbsp; It will save you time.&nbsp; I didn't want to come out and say it, but you should be the owner of this.&nbsp;&nbsp;

My current version is the official github, though I might re-merge some of the work that I accidentally lost. As far as claiming the sheet, I don't want to be the owner of a sheet of a system I'm not currently playing. I'm super energetic about Arioch and Havoc making changes to the sheet, I just want to take this sudden turn of events as an excuse to get some lines of communication going, not to shut out anyone. We covered this a few pages ago, we're all amateurs at this, so lets figure this out and be less amateur.&nbsp; I posted the comparisons not to embarrass Havoc but making the point that this is a shared project. The Roll20 github is where the character sheet lives. If you want to incorporate changes, make a call-out in this topic. As I said, there's not that many changes happening so it shouldn't really interrupt anyone. I'll take a look at Beyond Compare and see if I can't merge mine, Arioch's, and Havoc's versions and we'll use that as a shared code-base for changes going forward.&nbsp;

I think there's a misconception about ownership here. I'm going to be a bit long-winded here, please bear with me. No one is an owner of any of the sheets posted to roll20's github. The license there is explicit about this: whatever is posted is community property, and anyone can submit changes at any time.&nbsp; There are a couple of times at least where one person has been maintaining a sheet, and someone else has posted changes that the maintainer doesnt like, or even break old functionality and replace it with something different. When this happens, roll20 doesnt side with the person maintaining it: they suggest that the people making changes resolve their dispute amicably, and try not to be heavyhanded. I remember one such occasion went on for several weeks with discussion in the github comments going back and forth till a final submission was accepted, and the original maintainer wasn't really happy with it. So the approach roll has chosen can upset people who have put a lot of work into sheets, consider themselves the owner, and think they should be able to preserve that work. Especially if they didnt realise what the roll20 submission license entailed before they submitted anything. But on the whole its a good thing: the roll20 sheet repository is meant to be a living document. People who submit sheets are volunteers, who will eventually lose interest or just have other things that are more important in their lives to deal with.&nbsp; This system lets anyone keep a sheet updated, and avoids the inevitable power struggles that would crop up as owners with big egos try to set up their little fiefdoms. The last thing roll20 wants is to give unpaid and often irresponsible volunteers any control over their product. They won't do that. The blunt truth is: Anyone who chooses to be a maintainer or curator of a sheet is doing so as a public service, but it gives them no actual authority over the sheet. If you actually want to maintain control over your sheet (and there's nothing wrong with this desire, it's your work after all) you have to keep a version of it off the official github, like Victor has. I wouldnt be surprised if that's one of the reason's he never posted his sheet to the repository when people suggested it. As it happens, I have one sheet i havent posted there because I'm not yet ready to relinquish control over it. So it happens. So getting to the point finally: I suggested Richard go in and make the changes that bring the sheet up to date. I didnt suggest he become the maintainer or owner of the sheet. He can maintain it if he likes, but there's no obligation. You can make a submission as a one-off thing, if you think it adds value to the sheet, and doing it places no obligation on your to maintain if for the future. This is exactly how the repository is meant to operate.

I really dont understand why this drama is going on. We should be grateful people has taken the time and make the character sheets in the first place. There is no "official" or owner of the sheets. This is a sheet that has been contributed by different people in different times.&nbsp; In first place Havoc took his time to make the first sheet, just a couple of days when 4e came out. After that Arioch took it over and made other changes together with others. Richard decided to take over and if I remember right Arioch said he was not supporting the sheet anymore. Now Havoc has decided to make the sheet a little bit more easy to navigate and people are complaining and making a big issue out of it. If you dont like the current version just go and find another version, if you dont like it make a new one as Victor did. No idea where this has come or if is just a big misunderstanding, but chill out and be grateful that there is options and that people has taken their time for it instead of complaining