One glitch I've witnessed is when I edited a monster token to change its maximum for a bar, it removes ALL the text in the bars, until you copy-paste the token in again (or maybe if you refresh the game, didn't test that one)

Drespar said: Finally, by default, the current and max values for your bars will display as text on the bar:

This contrary to the statement previous made by Stephanie that the default would visible to editors.  In fact I believe Stephanie's statement is what was implemented, not yours (thankfully).

The workaround you're suggesting still obscures the token in a really bad-looking way.
Thank you for letting us turn off the numbers. Now please, allow us to keep our icons free from obstruction again.

• The bottom-most token bar overlaps the top of the token.

I'm sure there are people who appreciate the numbers greatly!
But this part is just a straight downgrade in customizability from the previous version where each bar had its predetermined place.

My friends' campaign makes extensive use of status icons, and now looks like this:

A bunch of other ones we're involved with use custom hand-drawn art, meaning we have to pick between being able to see the characters we're excited about and having health bars.

It was working fine before, and all people seem to have been asking for (in the threads you linked) is a rollback after the positioning got changed.
I appreciate the work you've put into the update!
But in regards to the positioning of the bars, this is going overboard to the point of breaking what wasn't broken to begin with.

I appreciate adding the ability to use numbers for those of us more numerically inclined but the latest update blocks out the token which is a big deal for me since i personally draw a lot of the art for many of the tokens i use!

I appreciate the work you are always putting in, but even the current work around adds a noticeable box on top of the token.

I can see that a lot of people asked for the bar to be contained to the token, and I don't want to take that away. but what I am asking is if we could have the option to move any and all bars and markers off the token entirely for those who prioritise visuals 

Thank you

Savvy

Ok Roll20 Team, I understand you want to add new things and update the game so people can enjoy it better but, THIS IS ONLY UNHELPFUL. If people wanted their health bar's on their token they could have done that, bar 3 was already on the token, this is just a downgrade. Their is no reason to have done this, but I will compromise, for this and all future changes, make them toggle able. If you do this people will be less annoyed at any updates they don't like in the future.

...your suggested fix is to leave an annoying and glaringly obvious empty box over our tokens? Really?

I don't want a bar on top of my token. Empty or otherwise.

Guys, please put some effort in your updates. Please remove this annoying bar from token as a priority. It's just ruining all those lovely tokens that are being sold in your market.

Anton V. said:

Guys, please put some effort in your updates.

Seconded. Thirded. Fourth'd.

Jim W. said:

Drespar said: Finally, by default, the current and max values for your bars will display as text on the bar:

This contrary to the statement previous made by Stephanie that the default would visible to editors.  In fact I believe Stephanie's statement is what was implemented, not yours (thankfully).

For those concerned about the number default, I just ran a test, and that can be changed on the game settings page and then applied to all existing content. I don't know if it would time out on a really large game.

Really didn't enjoy the combination of a status marker and bar 1 absolutely blocking out the token I put a lot of thought and framework into (which I bought on the marketplace, fyi).  should add something in settings that pushes both away from the token itself, just as you have the setting for positioning the status markers there. 

It's a cute feature if wanted.  some of us want the old ways back again.

Goes to show you can't please everyone. Having the bars floating above the tokens was a big priority request from the previous redesign bug threads, now that we finally have it people are upset. FWIW, the "old ways" I see a lot of people asking for were a bug that's only been around for a few months. For years previously the token bars behaved as these changes returned them to.

I'm very pleased with these changes. Looking forward to seeing other issues like CTRL+L being resolved next.

Wint said:

Goes to show you can't please everyone. Having the bars floating above the tokens was a big priority request from the previous redesign bug threads, now that we finally have it people are upset. FWIW, the "old ways" I see a lot of people asking for were a bug that's only been around for a few months. For years previously the token bars behaved as these changes returned them to.

I'm very pleased with these changes. Looking forward to seeing other issues like CTRL+L being resolved next.

For years previously, the lowest bar was overlapping the token and the other two were floating above it, and you had the choice of which one(s) you wanted to use. Ages old screenshot:

Thin, unobtrusive bars, in whichever of three predetermined positions you want them.

With this latest change, you no longer get any say in the positioning - no matter what you do, the token will be obscured by one of the bars.
You're right in so far as you "can't please everyone" by taking away options people have been using since the start, that's for certain >~>

Wint said:

Goes to show you can't please everyone. Having the bars floating above the tokens was a big priority request from the previous redesign bug threads, now that we finally have it people are upset. FWIW, the "old ways" I see a lot of people asking for were a bug that's only been around for a few months. For years previously the token bars behaved as these changes returned them to.

I'm very pleased with these changes. Looking forward to seeing other issues like CTRL+L being resolved next.

Except you can very easily please everyone. By making it toggled. I don't want a bar obscuring my token, same for most people. That's how it was and how we liked it, thus we had no reason to comment before. Now that Roll20 has fudged it up, of course we are going to get vocal. You being "pleased" does not invalidate my being displeased. I like leaving the third bar with just my AC so my token isn't covered, and the other two bars as HP and a resource, situated ABOVE the token. Not on it.

However, it is easy enough to make both sides happy by making the option toggled, same as the up or down or side status icons. Done and done. 

Hopefully given they are listing the overlapping as a bug that means they will be fixing it, but given the track record at this point who knows.

Love these token improvements. Thank you! It would be wonderful if the token bars would be hidden altogether whenever the token is too small.

Nyehko said:

Wint said:

Goes to show you can't please everyone. Having the bars floating above the tokens was a big priority request from the previous redesign bug threads, now that we finally have it people are upset. FWIW, the "old ways" I see a lot of people asking for were a bug that's only been around for a few months. For years previously the token bars behaved as these changes returned them to.

I'm very pleased with these changes. Looking forward to seeing other issues like CTRL+L being resolved next.

For years previously, the lowest bar was overlapping the token and the other two were floating above it, and you had the choice of which one(s) you wanted to use. Ages old screenshot:

With this latest change, you no longer get any say in the positioning - no matter what you do, the token will be obscured by one of the bars.
You're right in so far as you "can't please everyone" by taking away options people have been using since the start, that's for certain >~>

Preach. ^ ^ ^ ^

Additionally, with this change, bars of the same colour (and usually, the same meaning) are no longer necessarily vertically aligned, which reduces readability, especially for people who have trouble distinguishing the colours from each other.

Example:

• Red bar used for health (all tokens)

• One character, or type of character, has an additional resource and uses the green bar additionally.

• Whoops, now their health bar is out of position from everyone else's.

Rather than forcing us into one type of display or another, a toggle would be good, yes, or allow us to determine the display offsets for the bars/status icons on our own. Personally, I'd prefer status on one side, and bars close, but not overlapping, along the top, with the name on the bottom, and quick token flipping/other controls on the left, but that's likely quite intensive.

Instead, giving us the option to actually customize - even just the bar/icon location - would go a long way to alleviating the complaints.

Since the focus of most token's images tend to be centered horizontally,  I'd LOVE to see these as vertical bars on the left and right edges of the token's square.  I feel like that would also help resolve many peoples valid complaints of bars obscuring the token images.

It's great to keep updating things Roll20 Team, but I think we would all certainly like the OPTION to adopt new changes or keep using what we've been using.  Updates that straight-up replace how things have been used for years will ALWAYS rub folks the wrong way.

Vertical bars are a neat idea.

Either way, I love where they sit now too and I really love the text overlays. That is an awesome improvement. Thank you!

I am for team "no bar obscuring token". To be able to have the bar above the token would be great. I do love the numbers displayed now though :) Great job guys.

keithcurtis said:

Jim W. said:

Drespar said: Finally, by default, the current and max values for your bars will display as text on the bar:

This contrary to the statement previous made by Stephanie that the default would visible to editors.  In fact I believe Stephanie's statement is what was implemented, not yours (thankfully).

For those concerned about the number default, I just ran a test, and that can be changed on the game settings page and then applied to all existing content. I don't know if it would time out on a really large game.

How do you apply it to all existing content? 

Please revert this change! I see I’m not the only one who hates the fact that it obscures part of the token, and in the DotMM module at .5 it literally covers HALF THE TOKEN!! It’s awful and the empty bar work around looks terrible. I don’t even know what else to say, I’m just appalled.

keithcurtis said:

Jim W. said:

Drespar said: Finally, by default, the current and max values for your bars will display as text on the bar:

This contrary to the statement previous made by Stephanie that the default would visible to editors.  In fact I believe Stephanie's statement is what was implemented, not yours (thankfully).

For those concerned about the number default, I just ran a test, and that can be changed on the game settings page and then applied to all existing content. I don't know if it would time out on a really large game.

I cant seem to get it to apply to existing content.  Either I am missing a step, or somethings up.

Even dragging new tokens from the compendium still shows  numbers, although all settings in "game defaults" show hidden.

I rejoined as a player, and things "seem" to be hidden properly.  

EXCEPT my settings are "hidden from all", and its still showing text numbers to "editors."

A couple of posts have asked how to apply to existing content. I'm too lazy to do all the quote copying ;)

Once you have changed the game defaults in your game settings page, follow this procedure from the wiki:

With the game launched on your browser, go to the Sidebar and click on the y icon to bring up the My Settings tab. Scroll down to the bottom of the tab until you find the Apply Default Settings button underneath the Experimental Features section. Clicking on this opens up a dialog box that's sectioned off by Page, Token, and Sheet settings. For each default setting you have changed on the My Settings Page, a checkbox will appear under its relevant category. Check each option you want to apply across the entirety of the game. When you're ready, click on the blue Apply Settings button. A confirmation alert will appear alerting you to how many Pages, Tokens, or Character Sheets will be altered. Click OK through the alert to begin the setting conversion. A process bar will appear at the top of the Apply Default Settings dialog box as Roll20 begins converting your existing tokens, pages, and character sheets to the desired changes. Depending on how many items are in your game, a settings conversion may take anywhere from a couple seconds to a couple minutes to complete. You can cancel out of the applying process at any time by hitting the ESC key.
WARNING!!! Applying Settings will literally alter ALL characters, pages, and tokens you have in your game. Related attributes of these items will be overwritten with the settings you have checked off in this applier. This process can't be undone!

Wint said:

Goes to show you can't please everyone. Having the bars floating above the tokens was a big priority request from the previous redesign bug threads, now that we finally have it people are upset. FWIW, the "old ways" I see a lot of people asking for were a bug that's only been around for a few months. For years previously the token bars behaved as these changes returned them to.

I'm very pleased with these changes. Looking forward to seeing other issues like CTRL+L being resolved next.

Well said. Thank you Roll20 for correcting the bug and returning the token bar functionality back to their previous states. Not only have you resolved the bug that negatively affected long time subscribers, you have added a number of enhancements. Thank you for all the hard work.

"returning the token bar functionality back to their previous states"

Except that isn't at all what they did. Previous state and functionality was only the last bar covering the token, so you could leave it blank to prevent this. Once we get that functionality back I'll be sure to thank them.

Agreed on NOT wanting the overlapping bar! We need an option to toggle this so it doesn't overlap.

BUG:

For whatever reason, the squares of the 8th and 9th columns of the 4th row on all my maps are incapable of showing the top token bar ever since the update.

Just adding my voice to the chorus wishing the bottom bar would appear ABOVE the token. Everything else seems neat.

keithcurtis said:

A couple of posts have asked how to apply to existing content. I'm too lazy to do all the quote copying ;)

Once you have changed the game defaults in your game settings page, follow this procedure from the wiki:

With the game launched on your browser, go to the Sidebar and click on the y icon to bring up the My Settings tab. Scroll down to the bottom of the tab until you find the Apply Default Settings button underneath the Experimental Features section. Clicking on this opens up a dialog box that's sectioned off by Page, Token, and Sheet settings. For each default setting you have changed on the My Settings Page, a checkbox will appear under its relevant category. Check each option you want to apply across the entirety of the game. When you're ready, click on the blue Apply Settings button. A confirmation alert will appear alerting you to how many Pages, Tokens, or Character Sheets will be altered. Click OK through the alert to begin the setting conversion. A process bar will appear at the top of the Apply Default Settings dialog box as Roll20 begins converting your existing tokens, pages, and character sheets to the desired changes. Depending on how many items are in your game, a settings conversion may take anywhere from a couple seconds to a couple minutes to complete. You can cancel out of the applying process at any time by hitting the ESC key.
WARNING!!! Applying Settings will literally alter ALL characters, pages, and tokens you have in your game. Related attributes of these items will be overwritten with the settings you have checked off in this applier. This process can't be undone!

I do not want text overlays so I was happy to see that keithcurtis had detailed a way to fix this on existing campaigns. However, there is a serious limitation. A demonstration...

1. Here is a token with the new default of showing the text labels:

2. Now I go out and change the Game Settings to Hidden for all three bars:

3. Now I use keithcurtis' trick to Apply Default Settings:

4. And it works!

5. Now I get rid of the token that was on the VTT and I drag out a new token from the Journal:

IT'S BACK!!!

So apparently the Apply Default Settings applies those settings to all tokens that have already been placed, but not to tokens that have been saved to a character sheet!!!

So, in order to fix this, I will need to manually edit the token, click on three drop-down boxes and set them to Hidden, then go into the Character Sheet and remove the saved token and then add the newly edited token. And I have to do this across the tens of thousands of Character Sheets I have across 26 campaigns!

I think it is obvious that the dev team needs to include a Campaign-level function to allow this change to be made to all existing content within the Campaign!

I am sure that this change is going to be great for some of the user base, but for the rest of us there needs to be a way to undo this without having to spend days of our time to fix this. Also, going forward, please think twice (or thrice...) about applying changes to existing content. I was bitten hard by the Text Editor updates several months ago and now this, while not nearly as problematic, highlights my desire as a user not to have my content changing with no input into whether I want those changes.

Until that gets fixed, you can use TokenMod to set the default token:

!token-mod --set defaulttoken 

So, apparently this was a requested feature? Who'd you beta-test this with, Roll20?

I think it's obvious that none of the subscribers would want bars over their token artwork. You're right in that you "can't please everyone," but I think Roll20 needs to recognize that a lot of us go to great lengths with artwork and would prefer:

a) at least a global option to use this new thing or not (defaulting to not), and
b) a little "heads up, changes are coming" before implementation

I'm not complaining about the effort, because it is a stab at fixing a problem,but I would like to complain about the "Surprise! Here's Your New Look!" nature of the update

I Have the same complaints as many. 
The new bars cover up the graphics greatly. I really do like everything else you're doing but I would really love to be able to see my tokens and have the option to move the bars above them. 
Same with the status markers to be fair. They take up alot of the token as well. An option to be able to put it to the side of the token, the top of the token or on the token would be awesome ^__^ 

Please Roll20, go back to the old way in which we could have 1 bar overlapping or not (some like the overlap, some don't, we could have both before).

Please Roll20, fix the auras to the old way so we can have negative aura's again (allowing an aura that is smaller than a square.

Please Roll20, make the bars the same thickness they used to be.

You have built a very large base of users. Those users have set up their games with hundreds (thousands?) of existing tokens designed for how bars and auras worked before. Please do everything possible not to mess up all that work when adding new functionality.

Thank you!

Tom

The Aaron said:

Until that gets fixed, you can use TokenMod to set the default token:

!token-mod --set defaulttoken 

I already use TokenMod for several things in my campaigns, so this is interesting. I looked at the latest documentation in the Script Library but I do not see any mention of "defaulttoken". I don't want to get off-topic in this thread. Can you post a link to more information about this option? I'd like more clarification on how it works (and others might also find this useful).

Thanks in advance.

Update v0.8.24 -- Added the ability to set the defaulttoken on a character.  You must set the represents of the token to a character before using defaulttoken, but it works just as you'd expected:

!token-mod --set defaulttoken

You can of course chain this with other set commands:

!token-mod {{
  --set
    represents|@{bob|character_id}
    bar1_link|hp
    bar2_link|speed
    bar3_link|ac
    controlledby|tom|sally|nancy
    statusmarkers|blue:3|red:[[1d6]]
    defaulttoken
}}

Be sure to set the default token after all the settings you want preserved.  For example, if you set bar3_link after, it won't be set when you drag the token out later.  (Thanks Jakob!)

(I can't really link directly to it easily, it's quite a ways down the first post on the TokenMod thread. More details are in the help:

!token-mod --help

)

For those of use using all 3 bars, the workaround isn't a workaround at all....

Please make a real workaround and do it fast. Or better yet just give us the ability to change their vertical position to whatever we want. It will make things so much easier.

BUG:

I have been working in the Campaign that I used to make my screenshots above and any new token that I drag to the VTT has "Visible to Editors" for the Text Overlay even though I have changed the Game Settings to "Hidden".

I thought this might have something to do with using Assets that were already part of the campaign so I uploaded a brand new piece of artwork and when I double-click to get the Edit Token window all three bars are set to "Visible to Editors".

So, Assets added to the VTT are ignoring the Game Settings.

The Aaron said:

(I can't really link directly to it easily, it's quite a ways down the first post on the TokenMod thread. More details are in the help:

!token-mod --help

)

Thanks for the info! I'll have to play around with this.

Nyehko said:

My friends' campaign makes extensive use of status icons, and now looks like this:

I realize this is not a perfect solution, but you can recover some of the central art by moving status icons to the bottom in the settings tab.

Seems like the mixed reaction is roughly the same as the discussion while it was on the Pro server. It sounds like we need a few additional settings to please everyone:

1. Vertical Offset: The distance in pixels (1 sq. = 70 px) from the top edge to the bottom of the lowest bar. If the offset is positive, the bottom of the lowest bar is above the top edge of the token. A negative value descends the bottom of the lowest bar below the top of the token.
2. Collapse Bars: This checkbox determines whether the bars collapse so that there are not large gaps of unused space (the new behavior). Leaving this blank causes the unused bars to have blank space, so all Bar 1s would line up on tokens placed side by side even if 
3. Vertical spacing: The distance between bars. A negative value flips the order of the bars and causes the vertical offset to work in reverse. This allows the bars to collapse up instead of down for those people who want all bars to be inside the tokens area, such as when tokens are placed close together.
4. Vertical Height: How tall the bars are.

This would allow the following scenario with the following settings: Offset 0, Collapse, Spacing -0, Height 2

Someone could set the Spacing to 0 to get the bars to appear just above the token instead of at the top of it.

One more voice against token bars covering the token by default.

So we're still stuck with only 3 bars. Well at least it's working so far.

All these complaints and not a single Roll20 response to show they are listening.

Just saw the new layout of the tokenbars and it's exactly what i like. The players just see the bar, the GM sees the actual numbers.
Well done.

I second the idea of moving the status icons to the bottom of the token.  Or even better, create a token display GUI where everyone can move bars and icons around. 

Martijn S. said:

I second the idea of moving the status icons to the bottom of the token.  Or even better, create a token display GUI where everyone can move bars and icons around. 

You can set status icons to top, bottom or sides on the settings tab of your game. I do like the idea of making bar offset a per-game setting. Maximum happiness would be per-user.

I'm going to have to add my voice to those who want to see a proper way to keep the bars from overlapping with the tokens. I'm someone who buys tokens from the marketplace a lot, and this change makes those purchases worthless if these bars obscure a character's head. 

It's especially problematic for small characters or creatures with smaller tokens. The bar can cover up over half the token.