Oosh said: keithcurtis said: This would indeed seem to be a situation that could be fixed by a change to the template. I while I agree that it should work that way, there would be a significant number of complaints from folks who use that template for other things. Changing it at the sheet level would attach the entire description section to the npcdmg template instead of the npcatk template, for all description data, wouldn't it? Yes, moving the description section from npcatk to npcdmg would move the description to the damage section for every NPC action that had the attack box checked. This would change every NPC ability in the game. "Ability" is a really generic word. I am assuming you mean "action" here and elsewhere in the post since traits use a different roll template. Attacks which don't roll damage would no longer function properly, This is not correct. There are few examples of an attack action that does not do damage, but one of them is the rug of smothering's Smother attack. Currently, if "Auto Roll Damage and Crit" is off, the description appears with the attack. If you click on the "Attack" link, a blank NPC Damage box appears (because there is no damage). The description should be in that damage box. hence my opinion that it would require manual checking of every NPC in the Compendium - some of those description fields would stay in the npcatk section the "on-hit" ones would have to be moved to a second {{desc}} field that is part of npcdmg . This has nothing to do with the compendium. There is only one description field on an NPC action regardless of whether it is an attack or not (or has a damage roll), and a second description is not needed. There are 3 templates in play here as best as I can tell (anyone feel free to correct me): NPC Action: This is what is actually called when a user clicks on an NPC action. It renders differently based on whether the action is an attack or not, combining NPC Attack and NPC Damage. NPC Attack: used for the attack roll. It currently seems to do double duty when the action is not an attack by displaying the description only. NPC Damage: used when the "Attack" link on NPC Attack is clicked. What I am asking for is description to be moved from NPC Attack to NPC Damage. I do not want NPC Action's rendering to be changed when there is not an attack roll, but this would likely either require changing the NPC action template to not offload all of the work onto NPC Attack, or change the rendering so that the gap between NPC Attack and NPC Damage is not displayed when the action is not an attack. Would it look better for some attacks, for people using open rolls? Sure. It is not about looking better. It is about being correct. Is removing all description data from npcatk templates the way to do it? Yes, because the description text in an attack action happens on a hit, not on an attack. What about people who like that output? I don't know what to do about that. The description text for an attack action happens on a hit, not on an attack. What about non-damaging abilities? Already covered the rug of smothering's Smother action earlier. What about custom abilities that already use that description field? Actions that are not attacks, such as a dragon's Frightful Presence, should not be rendered as they are now. I completely agree that a {{desc}} field should be present for both the atk and dmg sections, as it is in the player template: That is the same description field. If it was rendered as a single attack, you would not get two descriptions. I am not aware of any place where an attack roll with a longsword needs to see a description before a hit is made. Spells can be set to always emit the description, even with an attack roll. Regardless, there is not a stat block in the Monster Manual that needs a description on the "to hit" portion of an attack action instead of the "Hit:" portion of the attack action. I just disagree about forcing the decision to move every piece of text for every NPC attack in 5e on to every player. It does not force the decision on to every player. It only affects those using the NPC sheet (usually a small subset of the Roll20 users). Here's an example from my ever-present friend the Lich, who seems to love breaking things: The target takes 2d4 acid damage at the end of its turn On a miss, the arrow splashes the target for half as much of the initial damage and no damage at the end of its next turn Changing the sheet's behaviour to attach the NPC attack description area to the npcdmg template instead of npcatk would break the functionality of this ability. The note needs to be in the atk section to tell the DM to roll damage regardless of hit or miss. And I've only checked 2 monsters. Using only part of the text from acid arrow , one of the lich's spells, to describe a problem with an attack action obfuscates the issue. Outside of this spell (and possibly some other specific spots), 5e does not have damage on a miss, and spells use a different template (the one cited above) than actions. If there actually was an attack action that needed to see the description text on a miss, the NPC could be set to "Auto Roll Damage & Crit", or a trait could be written to cover the damage on a miss. Regardless, I do not believe a need for this will be found in the Monster Manual. The lich actually has the following action. Paralyzing Touch : Melee Spell Attack: +12 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 10 (3d6) cold damage. The target must succeed on a DC 18 Constitution saving throw or be Paralyzed for 1 minute. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. In the current way of displaying an attack action, if "Auto Roll Damage & Crit" is off, the DM is told to have the target roll a Constitution saving throw regardless of whether the attack hit.
