Pathfinder sheet thread 2: Golarion boogaloo

hm... maybe I was thinking of my own AC stat I made up, which was just a number. But exists ther a guid for conversion, or barring that, just explaining al the things on the new sheet?

There was going to be but I ran out of space to test that stuff. That'll be in the next update.

when will that be?

Probably in two weeks.

Maybe I missed it above, but the "new" sheet doesn't appear to have transferred any of the special (racial, traits, class, feats) abilities. Is there someway I can recover this data or am I screwed and have to figure out what I lost and re-enter it all? Also, a little warning on changes would be awesome. I don't typically visit these forums and was quite shocked at the change.

They didn't transfer because they're all still under the feat section. The changes have been in the works for about two months and everyone had access to the test game to give it a shot.

Roger that, must have missed the announcement.

Is there a way to load up the old sheet? I have a group of players that already are about to quit because of the changes being made and now what I have spent weeks on trying to get to an understandable point for my players is to the point that it will take another two- three sessions to just explain to them. "access to the test game" is not forewarning for people who have a lot going on in their own lives and come on to find all of their hard work tossed because their character sheets are overwritten. I had *finally* got them to the point that they weren't about to quit and now all of that work is wasted. It really makes me want to cry considering this is the only place to get away from the stress I am already under. Is there a way to load the old sheet as a custome sheet? I know a lot of work goes into these, but understand that a lot of work goes into our side as well and making such a *huge* change to us (especially those of us who homebrew) who spend our money supporting roll20 rather than its competitors seems... just sad. So, the only option for pathfinder games using homebrewed rules that could simply use the sheet as a sheet before... is to not use a sheet.

I'll upload the old sheet if the new one really is this jarring for some. It'll be a separate selection from the current sheet.

please! That would make me feel so much better. I am sure your sheet is amazing and from what I can see it's awesome but one of the things that d20 is so good for is homebrewing and the new sheet takes a lot of stuff and automates (which is great for people who are following every rule in the book) where the old automated the basic stuff that helped us reduce time in our games but still let us give something simple and easy to read to our players (who already weren't wanting to get away from their PDF sheets and make our lives as GMs easier)... this is *very* jarring for people like that. IF my players weren't my players I would dive right into this, especially if there was a help file on how to alter it for homebrewing. I apologize for my reaction, it's just been a nightmare getting my players to transfer to the new sheets and the group is already on the verge of collapse and this was just that last straw, you know? I really do appreciate all the work you do and the sheet looks amazing.

Sam said: I'll upload the old sheet if the new one really is this jarring for some. It'll be a separate selection from the current sheet. oh please, do. I spent a whole week making an entire adventure that I nwo have to wing. There has to be a better way to warn people about htis. i had no idea a test game existed.

when I roll initiative, I'm getting this weird result with decimals

The decimal is your initiative modifier. It makes sorting and tie breaking easier.

Ah I see, there really should be something to explain all this somewhere

I'm pretty sure I've been over why there isn't.

Sam said: I'm pretty sure I've been over why there isn't. then expect plenty of questions, i guess

looking voer attack now, I'm not sure what this line is about? (Needs at least [[(@{crit-target}) + @{total-attack}]] to crit.) to crit, someone needs to roll within crit range, then roll again to confirm the hit vs ac. What is "crit target" and how do I set it? how do I set the attacks to the attack buttons? right now my only attack is repeating weapon X attack and there are 26 attack buttons

Crit target is the lowest number you need to naturally roll to crit. That line basically says you need at least that number plus any bonuses to crit. So if you had a Scimitar (18-20 crit) and your total attack bonus was +3, then you would need to have an attack total of at least 21 to crit. Since we can't change what number the box turns green on, we have to use this method to quickly determine whether or not something is a crit. The crit target and multiplier are the first two boxes on the second line of an attack.

ah so basically you post the lowest number in your crit range there?

Yes

Now for some reason, the sheet I used last night has feats, but one I'm looking at today has none of the feats

Can you take a screenshot?

Thanks for all the work you've done Sam, it has some great improvements. How do I make a weapon specific roll in the bottom bar macro? It's easier to click that then open up the Handout, go to Weapons tab, etc.

Create a Macro/Ability that just has "%{selected|button_name}". If you mouseover the buttons it should show you what the button's name is.

It says %{repeating_weapon_X_Attack} (NOT USABLE IN MACROS), I'm assuming it won't work with that. If you meant the Attack 0 button (%{repeating_weapon_0_Attack}), it just spits out errors: No attribute was found for @{character|repeating_weapon_0_enhance} --- One of those for every attribute. and Could not determine result type of: [{"type":"M","expr":"(20)"},{"type":"C","text":" + (0 + (((character|repeating_weapon_0_enhance + character|repeating_weapon_0_masterwork) + abs(character|repeating_weapon_0_enhance - character|repeating_weapon_0_masterwork)) / 2) + 0 + ((2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0) + ((floor((14 + 0 + 0 + 0)/2)-5) + floor(0/2) - (floor(abs(0)/2)) - (floor(abs(0)/2))) + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0) + 0)"}] I've deleted a few weapons as I was troubleshooting the first issues, but all 26 fail. So I don't think it's an issue where my first visible weapon isn't 0.

I had a similar problem, maybe try checking and unchecking the mwk box, as this is a field that should be updated as well prior to those working.

Ah damnit. I didn't have the enhancement bonus set to 0.

You have to modify all the fields in the attack to use the buttons. Set empty fields to 0, select something in the dropdowns, and check/uncheck the masterwork box. Repeating fields don't have default values so this is the best I can do. You can't call repeating section buttons no matter what.

Hi Sam, was checking the Github folders and I don't see the old sheet up yet, any idea of when that might be? The more I look at the new sheet the more I think it will be great for the non-homebrew game I am in, but for tonight I'd like to have the old one so my players don't freak out, if possible of course. I can copy everything over to a custom sheet so all I need are the files. Thank you for being understanding about all of this! I think it'll just take some time for some of us to appreciate just how much better the new sheet is and until we do, trying to explain it to our tech-inept players just isn't going to work! lol

Probably Monday. In the meantime: <a href="https://github.com/Thequietcroc/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/Pathfinder%20(Old)" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Thequietcroc/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/Pathfinder%20(Old)</a>

Thank you so much, that fixed all of my problems. You are a life saver! Already have it copied over and running just fine. My players will no longer threaten me tonight!

I didn't like having the crit attack and damage rolled in the attack, so I modified the macro as follows. Figured it might help someone else. 1. Make sure the Weapon 0 button(or whichever weapon it is) works when pressed. 2. Create a new manual macro and check the 'In Bar" box. 3. Right Click on the button for Weapon 0 and click on Inspect Element. 4. Right click the code that pops up (the line should be highlighted) and click on Edit as HTML. 5. Select everything between value=" and " class "btn"... Paste this into the macro. This is the meat and potatoes of the roll. 6. For every variable (i.e. @{repeating_weapon_0_attack}) you need to add the character name so Roll20 knows where to look. So if my character was named Aragorn I'd change it to @{Aragorn|repeating_weapon_0_attack}. I just copy and pasted the Aragorn| part to the front of every variable. 7. Then put every command on a different line but hitting enter at the end. It takes some coding skills to figure this out, but all of them start with some text "Attack Result: " and end with ]]. 7. If you get any errors make sure you added Aragorn| (that's the shift + \ key) to the front of every variable. The variables start with @. 8. If you still have issues restart from #3. 9. Once the macro works, you can delte and rearrange the variables as you see fit. For example, I made the following macro text for my character named Peake. /em is attacking with @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_name} Attack Result: [[1d20 + (@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_proficiency} + (((@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_enhance} + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_masterwork}) + abs(@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_enhance} - @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_masterwork})) / 2) + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_attack} + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_attack-type} + @{Peake|armor-proficiency})]] Damage Result: [[@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_damage-dice-num}d@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_damage-die} + (@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_enhance} + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_damage} + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_damage-ability})]] Needs at least [[(@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_crit-target}) + (@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_proficiency} + (((@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_enhance} + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_masterwork}) + abs(@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_enhance} - @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_masterwork})) / 2) + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_attack} + @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_attack-type} + @{Peake|armor-proficiency})]] to crit for @{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_crit-target}/x@{Peake|repeating_weapon_0_crit-multiplier}. Which outputs as: Peake is attacking with Longspear Attack Result: 20 Damage Result: 8 Needs at least a 24 to crit for 20x3.

That's probably not gonna save when you leave and return to the game. You'll wanna either create your own version of the ability or create a custom sheet.

Suggestion: Either @{max-dex-source} should be set to None by default, or the armor's Max Dex penalty should only be taken into account if toggled on. I've had to go through my old character sheets and adjust this value for any of the ones that weren't wearing armor so that they could get their DEX bonus and I'll have to do this for all new characters I create. Otherwise, I for one really like the new character sheet. Great job!

I'll probably set it to none since it doesn't play well when your armor's off.

I also think there is another small bug (unless it is done by design) but the Temp column for ability scores does not modify the actual value. The misc column works as expected.

I too would like the original character sheet posted as an option (I'm not a mentor so I can't do a custom sheet), I'm sure this one has more functionality but the old just looked nicer and I had just gotten my players used to it. I also now have to go through this one and edit every weapon and spell entry as thoes macros didnt carry over well. I think if you do more versions in the future just post them as Pathfinder V2.0 or something like that, not every one likes multi-page sheets and at least my group prefers the simple layout for single page character sheets.

Kevin said: I also think there is another small bug (unless it is done by design) but the Temp column for ability scores does not modify the actual value. The misc column works as expected. The temp column only updates the mod for every 2 points you put in it.

I see... it adds to the mod, but not the strength value, that was what threw me off. Thanks!

There's an issue, maybe a PBCAK, where if I enter into the Max Calculation area of an entry under "Class Features and Abilities": {floor(@{class-0-level}/3),1}kh1 +@{INT-mod} I get a blank box for Max. If I throw this same calculation into a macro: [[ {floor(@{Character|class-0-level}/3),1}kh1 +@{Character|INT-mod} ]] I get the proper result.

Also, while I love the changes made, and think it's a big improvement, I'd like to suggest: 1. Automatically calculating Encumbrance - the numbers are all there to crunch. 2. Giving us pulldowns for the Ability column of the skills list - there are a number of class features and traits that change what attribute a skill works from.

Auto calculations only do math, they can't do fancy roll logic. I can't auto calculate encumbrance because all the values are in repeating fields. I'll have to see about modifying the skill ability.

Riley D. said: In general, I just also want to say that I think Sam is doing a great job handling this and with the sheet improvements. The community is very lucky to have someone who is willing to devote so much time and energy into developing this sheet on a volunteer basis. It's also interesting to see the things that I deal with for Roll20 as a whole playing out on a smaller scale here -- some people want things to change, others want them to stay the same because they don't want existing stuff to break, etc. It's always a tough balancing act. There is no right answer that will please everyone, unfortunately. I can't agree more with this comment. I appreciate the work that Sam has done on this sheet, and while I do understand some of the reaction, if you are not constantly innovating on things, then you are stagnant and nothing will improve. Even the games we play typically evolve over time and improvements are made. Everyone has some time investment in their players and their campaigns, and sometimes things will need to change and evolve to make things better for everyone, and this will require an additional time investment on GMs and players. Some will adapt more easily than others... and once you get past the initial shock and reaction, you will see that there are huge improvements. I think the approach of making the source for earlier versions for a limited time is very reasonable, because there are times where maybe you have one or two sessions left in a campaign and just want to finish it out before moving on to the next chapter where you can plan for the transition a bit more cleanly.

I think I'm just going to make announcements within the sheet itself in the future to give everyone a fair warning/update about sheet changes. A lot of the criticism has been that there was no sort of message detailing that there would be a change in the first place and hopefully that would alleviate some of that. Adding a link to the bottom that points to the forum discussion would be a good idea too. I'm glad there's a lot of people who like the sheet, let's me know that my time wasn't wasted at least.

My suggestion in the futue if you want to change thigns is to send an email to everyone with a campaign using the sheets saying "we are going to change the sheets in X days, here is what you need to do when that happens. If you don't want to change, follow these steps:"

Yeah, no. I can't access everyone who's using the sheet's email address nor do I want to. A message in the sheet itself will guarantee it being seen to a degree, people will have to open a sheet at least once a session right? In my opinion, it's the least invasive way to get the message out.

Maybe my groups are outliers but we're finding the Pathfinder sheet to be growing rather too complicated for us. Creating, updating and maintaining our Roll20 character sheets is eating up a lot of time. The less technical people don't even bother because we would have to stop everything and walk them through step by step. Not really sure what else to say, just an observation. Oh and the sheet update "surprise" others mentioned was a problem for us too. We had sheets set up perfect but sometime between our last session and the next the update happened and we logged in to find our sheets in disarray, some broken in really odd ways.