Pathfinder sheet thread 2: Golarion boogaloo

my question is though, why does it sometimes work, also if you try to change he max value to something that it isn't then it won't save, so obviously the value is being recorded and entered but having trouble with showing on load

That's outside my scope.

Sam, regarding the tokens not playing well with auto-calculated values, could you post a bug report on it with as much detail as possible? Thanks.

Sure thing Gauss

Hey there, thought I've give a few thoughts on the current iteration of the pathfinder character sheet. So first of all, props to separating the character sheet into different sections that can be reached with a click, very handy and I hope you continue to incorporate this in future iterations, in addition I also like the new layout's design aesthetically, in addition I also really like how you incorporated Favored class sections as well as feat calculation that emulates skill calculation. Additionally, the inclusion of the damage/drain/penalty section under stats was a well needed inclusion that has really helped gameplay One issue I noticed right away, however, was that the weapons section of the profile while more robust than before has the issue of requiring '0's to be put into all the fields (even ones you're currently not using) before it will function, and this caused some initial confusion over your previous iteration. My next few thoughts however, are more of a criticism of your design choice. First of all I would say the decision to split up class features/racial traits/feats was a welcome change, but spliting them up to separate sections of the character sheet was in my opionion an unwise decision. character sheets in the past have grouped those three together for a reason, convenience of all the "exceptions" your character has to the normal rules of play, and the fact that many player may not always remember immediately if an ability their character possesses is either a feat, skill or racial ability ("I know I have something against illusions, let me check" being a sort of example). What I would in fact recommend is grouping all three together again, but in sequential sections, so that they remain conveniently separate but still close enough to peruse quickly, as well as the aforementioned "grouping of exceptions" Secondly is perhaps a bit of a rebuke to the current methodology you seem to be implementing in your character sheets, and that would have to be the "Name" "Description" "Macro" design interface you've included on class features, feats, racial traits, and items. Items in particular are perhaps the most clunky of all of them, where a simple item list, even when hiding as much as possible, has become a sprawling list of excess text that is incredibly cumbersome. Now that's not to say there isn't a place for the kind of layout you have for items, but there definitely needs to be a general item list function that is closer to the legacy version of your sheet, and then allow for a more detailed section for specialty items and magic items that would require a more in depth description and/or charges per day (perhaps placing it under the magic items section, and then placing the magic items section under the general items section. Secondly is the inclusion of a macro section of all of these aforementioned sections. Which to put it perhaps bluntly, is unnecessary. Not only is the bulk of special features and class features and feats that many characters will pick either passive bonuses or not the kind of feature that can be represented in simple numbers (ex. Druid companion needing it's own sheet, or wizards needing spellbooks, fighter's getting bonus feats, barbarians getting additions to their rage mechanic). But the number of features that actually would be benefited by a macro are seldom enough seen or small enough in number that it would be cleaner to omit the macro line in each entry and simply rely on the player themselves to create a simple macro for it, especially when most players use voice communication and can simply communicate to their fellow players they're going to "use flurry of blows" or "Lay on hands the dwarf" That might seem counter intuitive, it requires work on the player's part and a character sheet should be about convenience yes? However an inclusion such as that only adds less convenience to more characters, while assisting only a select few (paladin lay on hands, maybe monk flury of blows? (but that would require an extensive macro on the player's part to begin with to be handy) I hope that you do not take these criticisms to heart, as that is of course not my intention, but instead consider them as one person's subjective viewpoint on your character sheet, and the pros and cons to any changes or lack of changes you would decide to implement, ultimately I would love to see you continue to develop your sheet, and look forward to future iterations, but I will leave off with the simple mantra of "functionality over aesthetic"

You do know you can just hide these fields you don't like, right?

Pretty much what Bob said. Almost every section in the sheet is hideable. Also, if I combined sections again, then there'd be no point in making the sheet tabbed in the first place. A section with class abilities, feats, and racial traits together would get big really quick and that's the kind of thing I wanted to avoid. People were asking for ways to turn buttons into macros for repeating sections, the macro bar gives that to them. The weapons section is just how repeating fields work, they don't store default values so you have to write something in all relevant fields. It's annoying but that's how the system works and I can't change it.

First of all I would say the decision to split up class features/racial traits/feats was a welcome change, but spliting them up to separate sections of the character sheet was in my opionion an unwise decision. Most players will probably only refer to the Feats tab "in-game". Racial abilities and traits will be referenced far less in my opinion. So I think this is probably a mute point. I agree that in my experience at least, players will simply state which ability\trait\feat they are intending on applying. That said, I like the fact they could use a macro button that can serve as a "reminder" of how the ability\trait\feat applies to the situation. It's optional. I like choices. :-)

Strange issue. Under the Attacks tab, I can click the macro button next to my first weapon entered and everything works like it's supposed to, dice are rolled, chat window is updated. When I try the Attack Button "0", the dice are rolled and are left on-screen. Nothing shows up in the chat window. All further macro button pushing does the same thing. I can pile up the dice on the screen, and only a refresh can "unlock" my campaign. This is currently only happening on one of the players. I noticed that for whatever reason my existing attack info did not "crossover" well with the new sheet. I'm having to delete and re-enter the attacks. Do I need to delete all existing attributes and go through all the fields to recreate them? Thanks

Don't have dice (xdy) in the damage section. That's usually the only time I see that.

Sam, you are the man. I had nothing in the "damage mod" field. Entered "0". Problem solved. Dumb oversight. Strange that the macro button next to the attack worked fine, but the Attack Button row didn't... Now both work. Thank you.

After spending hours and hours playing around with over a dozen different character sheets to get them tweaked post-update, I have a few things I would like to recommend: 1. SKILLS PER LEVEL: Humans get a +1 to Skill Points, but there's no where to account for this other than just adding "+1" to Class Skill Points per level. Not a big deal, but had some of my players confused on their total # of skill points. Maybe add another line for "Racial bonus"? 2. MODIFY BUTTON: That big red button only functions to allow deletion of ability entries/inventory. Could this instead be modified to allow us to MOVE entries Up or Down on the list? I'm anal-retentive to the max when it comes to how things are listed on my player's sheets, and the only way to do this how is to simply add a new entry (to the bottom, ugh) and copy-paste it down. This is a minor nit-pick but I would love to be able to SLIDE abilities/inventory items around as I please. 3. EXPORT FUNCTION. My players love physical sheets. I have told them to print character sheets and manually transfer them. They unilaterally decreed that I petition to have an Export & Print character sheets straight from Roll20. Is this something under consideration, or even a possibility? Thanks so much for your hard work, Sam!

First of all I want to say: THANK YOU!!! GREAT JOB!! my players, and I, appreciate your work!! Best layout than before!! very useful!! I have a minor question/suggestions ...for, I hope, enhance your work: - my players loves make a "Roll to DM", have You a possibility to insert a flag, in the upper part of each sub-sheet, to make dice rolls secretly launched? - the "speed" field is set at 5-by-5 steps, in Italy (in europe) your 30 feet are ours 9 meters... can you modify the counter one-by-one, and not 5-by-5?? - if i have a weapon that make two type of dice, what i have to write in damage field? (i.e.: +1 cold knife: 1d4 lethal damage +1 magic bonus + 1d6 cold damage....). is possible to insert a "dice roll" in damage field? or additional damage field? - similar, in order to automate the rolls by button, can You add a field (or multiple field, with name) where I can put a simple dice roll that i use more frequently, and relative button, without using a dice roller, or write formulas in chat? i.e.: if I wanted to add sneak attack damage, where I write the number of d6 that I can roll? That's all, for now!! :D I'm waiting for NPC Sheet!! i'm sorry for my bad english... i hope it's clear. Thanks again! bye Marco

wrt the speed field the fact Italy is metric shouldn't matter. Pathfinder is based on 5ft x 5ft squares regardless. For the additional damage put it in the weapon notes as an inline roll. i.e [[1d6]] cold damage

@Joel 1. I can add that 2 & 3. I can't do anything about @Marco 1. A flag is too much of a headache for me to put in. Most of the NPC section rolls ate going to be GM only anyway, so they can just use those when they're ready. 2. The rules use ft and I'm hesitant to make an edge case exception. It's a minor inconvenience for metric system users at best. 3 & 4. Use the notes section of the weapon for extra die rolls.

@Marco: You could edit the macro text for the weapons and add "/w gm" before each line of text. That would send the entire macro to the gm as a whisper Here's an example of how to send the attack to the gm and also how to add your cold damage. /em is attacking with @{name}! /w gm Attack Result: [[1d20 + @{total-attack}]] /w gm (Needs at least [[(@{crit-target}) + @{total-attack}]] to crit.) /w gm Damage Result: [[@{damage-dice-num}d@{damage-die} + @{total-damage} + 1d6 [cold]]] /w gm Crit: @{crit-target}/x@{crit-multiplier} /w gm Crit Confirm: [[1d20 + @{total-attack}]] /w gm Crit Damage: +[[(@{damage-dice-num} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1))d@{damage-die} + (@{total-damage} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1))]] /w gm Type: @{type} /w gm Notes: @{notes} /w gm @{attack-notes} - similar, in order to automate the rolls by button, can You add a field (or multiple field, with name) where I can put a simple dice roll that i use more frequently, and relative button, without using a dice roller, or write formulas in chat? i.e.: if I wanted to add sneak attack damage, where I write the number of d6 that I can roll? Honestly, this is what the character abilities or macros are designed for. A simple 1d20 roll can be as simple as [[1d20 + ?{Mod|0}]] or /r 1d20 + ?{Mod|0} When you press the macro / character ability button a box will pop up asking what modifiers you want. A zero (0) by default is already filled in. So if you don't need any modifiers you can just press enter right away to roll. If you do want a modifier just type your number. The zero (0) is already highlighted so you would just overwrite it. The pop up box adds maybe half a second to your roll but it allows you to change the roll on the fly instead of having to go in every time before hand to change the modifier. - the "speed" field is set at 5-by-5 steps, in Italy (in europe) your 30 feet are ours 9 meters... can you modify the counter one-by-one, and not 5-by-5?? Just divide the speed by 5 to get the number of squares you need. If that's too much to do all the time you need to know someone's speed here's a simple macro I wrote to get it: Base Speed: [[@{selected|speed-base}/5]] Fly Speed: [[@{selected|speed-fly}/5]] Swim Speed: [[@{selected|speed-swim}/5]] Climb Speed: [[@{selected|speed-climb}/5]] Misc Speed: [[@{selected|speed-misc}/5] You'll want to put that into a macro and then to use you just select the token in question before you click it. @Joel: 2. MODIFY BUTTON: That big red button only functions to allow deletion of ability entries/inventory. Could this instead be modified to allow us to MOVE entries Up or Down on the list? I'm anal-retentive to the max when it comes to how things are listed on my player's sheets, and the only way to do this how is to simply add a new entry (to the bottom, ugh) and copy-paste it down. This is a minor nit-pick but I would love to be able to SLIDE abilities/inventory items around as I please. 3. EXPORT FUNCTION. My players love physical sheets. I have told them to print character sheets and manually transfer them. They unilaterally decreed that I petition to have an Export & Print character sheets straight from Roll20. Is this something under consideration, or even a possibility? You're going to have to petition Roll20 itself to make those changes possible. There's a forum for it at the bottom of the forum listing page.

Okay. So I decided to check in and see if you had made progress with any actual non PHD in "Simple" Friggin Code user interface usefulness, and granted it's no longer a PHD, but I'll figure a BA in "Simple" Friggin Code meaning that I can at least navigate it (granted it's still a pain in the ass for me, but it should be okay for my players unlike the last time they used it). So while getting things set up after editing the macros for the attacks, I add a @{target|token_name} so that way we all know what they're targeting. But there's something not transferring right, and I'm not sure if this is my end or if this is something on the sheet cause I haven't seen it pointed out in here. When I go to modify the weapon attack macro and test it, it'll pull up just like normal. It says "Blah attacks Clah with such and such". But when I go to enable it as a token macro (the complete pain in the ass part for me because I know for fact half my players won't understand that process, just for your information), it doesn't pull up in such fashion, but only as in "Blah attacks with such and such". After verifying, confirming, and investigating, I end up with the conclusion that for some reason the direct macro that weapon ability uses is not transferring to the quick button macro which is used by the token action. It's just using the default macro that is initially there to say "Blah attacks with such and such" with no actual flavor that my players love to add into the attack blocks. So once again, not sure if this is my end or an actual sheet issue, so any light would be nice.

The static buttons are hard coded due to repeating section limitations. It's gotta be that way since repeating sections don't store default values like static sections do.

Kyle S. said: After verifying, confirming, and investigating, I end up with the conclusion that for some reason the direct macro that weapon ability uses is not transferring to the quick button macro which is used by the token action. It's just using the default macro that is initially there to say "Blah attacks with such and such" with no actual flavor that my players love to add into the attack blocks. So once again, not sure if this is my end or an actual sheet issue, so any light would be nice. Create your own token macro for the flavour text. /em @{character_name} charges in to battle slashing with his Greatsword while screaming "FREEEEEEDOMMMM!" %{repeating_weapon_0_attack}

Edit: Ok, Zepth's way is simpler, in its way, but if you want more changes than flavor text... The next most simple way to make a token action, customized, is as follows: Copy the information in the MACRO section of the repeating (weapon, item, feat, ect) field to another text editor. In said editor, go through every single variable within said Macro and add either SELECTED or TARGET to it, depending on the source of the information. Save your work. In said editor, go through every single variable within said Macro and add REPEATING_FIELD_Number_VariableName as needed. Not all fields require the repeating part. Following the same concept as above, make your own adjustments as desired. So for example, here is part of the current Weapon 0 macro from the sheet: /em is attacking with @{name}! Attack Result: [[1d20 + @{total-attack}]] (Needs at least [[(@{crit-target}) + @{total-attack}]] to crit.) First, you add SELECTED and/or TARGET (don't forget the vertical line | ): /em is attacking with @{ selected |name}! Attack Result: [[1d20 + @{ selected |total-attack}]] (Needs at least [[(@{ selected |crit-target}) + @{ selected |total-attack}]] to crit. Next, let it know where to find the repeating field. Note that you have to count up from zero to find the field you want: /em is attacking with @{selected| repeating-weapon-0- name}! Attack Result: [[1d20 + @{selected| repeating-weapon-0- total-attack}]] (Needs at least [[(@{selected| repeating-weapon-0- crit-target}) + @{selected| repeating-weapon-0- total-attack}]] to crit. Now, save your work. Then copy it into the ABILITIES section of your journal entry. Make sure you've got the appropriately linked token selected, and give it a try. Odds are it won't work, so go back and make sure you've entered everything properly. Watch the error messages to see what's missing. In this case, the reason it won't work is that 'total attack' is an autopopulated section in the repeating fields, and therefore cannot be called externally. So what you need to do is re-create the formula used to make it. It's something along the lines of (complex formula to determine strength bonus) + (all the different other bonuses, from BAB to the weapon's +1 for masterwork, added together) + (1d20), and plug that big mess in instead. I won't give you this information, and make no guarantees as to its accuracy. Just remember that some values will be from the repeating section and some from the 'external' areas (other tabs on the sheet.) With a little practice, this isn't as hard as it seems. Just remember that you'll have to go through and change ALL the numbers on ALL your macros every time you delete a lower-numbered repeating field section, and you're good to go! Or you can use the sheets the way Sam intended and say 'thank you', because he went to a lot of trouble to make it as easy as it is to use. But above all, have fun! -Phnord

Phnord Prephect said: Or you can use the sheets the way Sam intended and say 'thank you', because he went to a lot of trouble to make it as easy as it is to use. Well first off, last time I tried to ask a question, I ended up getting treated like I was a retarded moron for the simple fact that I don't know all this code asking a question with everyone else slinging language terms so you'll have to forgive me if I'm a little hesitant in saying "Thank you for treating me like somebody who should never, ever think about touching a computer again." Secondly, while I appreciate the lines of code to get this done, I have to agree that Zepth's way would work easier for targeting. There's a few other things that'll suck that I have to do extra that may slow things down, but I'll deal. So I take it that it'd be a whole different monster that could screw up the sheet if those quick select buttons were to just be actual copies of what is put into the macro itself?

There's nothing I can really do on my end to make the buttons work with the macro text in the repeating sections. Right now it just plain won't work, you can test that by calling @{target|repeating_weapon_0_macro-text} and seeing the errors pop up. Once that changes I'll no doubt change the static buttons accordingly.

Yea, just tried doing that with the token macro and it pulled up the errors as if there was no attributes to pull data from. Now if you're referring to using it within the direct attack macro, then I wouldn't know how that should be done because all I see happening is macroception lol. It's just odd to me how with the direct attack macro, it'll work. But if you try and pull the ability name via the %, it just defaults. It just seems to me that if it will just pull the static values that you've set, then allowing people to edit the macro seems kind of pointless for the simple fact that if anything else (I like to put @{target|AC} to save time on both my player's and my ends) wants to be included into the macro, you have to have the sheet up which for those of us who don't have more than one monitor or a small screen in general, winds up be very ineffective to do. Makes it come across as a "Well if you want to make full use of, you'll have to spend money to..." type of deal you know? What if the attributes that it pulls off the sheet were to be copied over to the AA section, could that possibly allow for an easier way to make a token macro? That way you could just copy the macro from the attack, and paste into the token macro, then edit it from there so that the main sheet doesn't get affected. I don't know how difficult (if possible) to send the calculations over to the AA section.

I can't do that.

Ah, okay. Yea, wasn't sure about that one since they're calculations.

I'd just like to take a second to thank Sam for all the work he's done. I'm a programmer too and I can't imagine how hard it is to put together a sheet like this with as many limitations and conditions as their are.

Hello Sam, I've got some issue with your character sheet because some of my players do have a feat that allow them to use their Charisma bonus on their initiative roll so i wanna know if you could change this option and set available a pick-ability for that kind of roll (For example like you did on the attack and combat maneuvers bonus)

@Marcus Thanks dude. @MJ Totes

Totes?

Yes

What does that mean? Oh and could you tell me where i can learn about the macro language and if you have a tutorial to use your character sheet in more detail (i'm french and i'm not usual with english ^^)

That explains why you don't know totes. I'll put the drop down in. You can learn about macros here: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Macros" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Macros</a>

thank you very much ^^

What's the best way to represent Weapon Finesse with this sheet? Should I set melee attacks as ranged? Should I add to Attack Mods?

Generally someone who focuses on Weapon Finesse will use all light weapons or weapons that can be used with weapon finesse, so I generally just set the Melee Attack to using DEX instead of STR.

Thank you, Samuel T. for your suggestion!!! very useful!!! bye!

I found a way to get past the issue i was having earlier. So instead of having a massive amount of data showing up for the D20 roll if you put a ( and ) around the 1d20 so (1d20) in the calculation it makes it much easier to read So using this as the attack Attack Result: [[(1d20) + @{total-attack}]] it shows as this instead Now, i don't know if this does anything else other then make it show nicer but it's definitely a lot easier to read then my earlier.

So how goes the NPC tab? Any idea as to when that'll be updated, or is life busy as hell lately?

I've barely gotten to the defenses part of it, work and home have kept me too busy to give the sheet its proper attention. It will be a bit longer.

It's cool. I just know you said a couple of weeks ago that you said a couple of weeks lol.

Lol yeah, I was naive then.

Don't you just hate it when that happens? Lol. Well just keep us posted as you can I suppose.

Some of my friends and i. Are having issues with our changes not taking affect. Is there a way we can get a "save" button so that the changes we make are recorded? My friend will setup his skills, go to something else, then come back and the work he's done is undone. Or is there already something i'm not aware of that does that?

It's supposed to save the changes as you go... I can see ONE field not being saved, if something went wrong, but it seems as if multiple fields are being not-saved? The only reason this might happen is if somehow their connection is lost while they're making changes... you'd see a red box in the upper-left corner indicating this. But even so, once it came back online all the changes could go through then. Can you (or your friend) be more specific about what's happening? -Phnord

When ever he change tabs, the skills are changing randomly, either going up and down in available. Also, i've noticed that in a different game, when updates are done to the character sheet things are being rolled back. The week before i leveled up to 6, and the last game i was back down to level 5.

Never heard of that one before. When I see discrepancies it's usually because two people are trying to edit the sheet at the same time. Closing and reopening the sheet usually fixes that.

I don't suppose there is a way to have a macro change a value in the character sheet. I am thinking specifically of the Qty field in Inventory. This would allow me to be able to keep track of ammo or charges on wands automatically.

Joel, this would require an API, it's not feasible without one.

Right-o. I will do it by hand then.