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Advanced Fog of War Feedback Thread 2.0

1555017698

Edited 1555018734
Drespar
Roll20 Team
AFoW Feedback & Bug Reporting Hi everyone! In an effort to provide some clarity and differentiation between issues we have split the Animations and AFoW threads. You can view the original thread here: Original Animations and AFoW Feedback Thread If you are looking for Animations you can check the new thread here: Animation Feedback Thread 2.0 These two threads will be running in tandem as we continue to resolve reported issues. The known issues and updates lists have also been separated for clarity's sake. Submitting a Report In order to best pass along information and submit tickets we request the following so that we can properly escalate issues. As always, ensure you also give the troubleshooting guide a try to ensure we are restricting any outlying effects. Keep multiple issues separated by post Narrow down causes: Turn off features that do not directly impact the issue (i.e. Turn off Dynamic Lighting for an Advanced Fog of War problem and vice-versa) Include the following screenshots Token Settings Page Settings Table Top view Link to an example game experiencing the issue Note: that this is not a join link Outline expected behavior vs actual behavior Reproduction steps for the issue Ideally from a fresh or pre-made game (module/add-on) We may have additional questions related to your particular issues but the above provides us a good baseline to work from.
1555017707

Edited 1559928679
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Known Issues The following are known issues with Advanced Fog of War: Tokens Controlled by players have incorrect z-order with respect to AFoW (Re-Opened June 6) Token bars obscured by Fog of War Directional light obscures token AFoW is revealed at token location with no sight Tokens reveal map beyond expected bounds upon loading the map while dynamic lighting and AFoW is in use(Re-Opened June 6) Moving a selection of multiple objects creates a ping (Fixed May 28) Re-hiding areas with normal fog of war creates dark squares where it overlaps with already hidden areas instead of seamlessly blending(Re-Opened June 6) Tokens visible on maps with transparent backgrounds even when out of LoS (Fixed May 28) On Dev None at this time Resolved Issues Removed the strike-through styling as it was making items difficult to read. Additionally, re-ordered chronologically. AFoW doesn't reset for players if you select Reset Fog. If the player reloads, the fog is reset for them. (Fixed Jan 29) When a token is rotated, its aura will detach and move in an arc. Also, auras of "0" do not display an aura. (Fixed Jan 30). For some pages with AFoW enabled, the page crashes when trying to load. Disabling AFoW usually fixes this. (Fixed Jan 30) Dynamic Lighting lines draw above the grid. (Fixed Jan 30) When a token is on the map layer, if it has a max value in the bubbles (and therefore has a bar), the bar continues to display. (Fixed Feb 14) Setting the grid color in the default results in the grid being invisible on the VTT. (Fixed on Feb 26) Overlap of lines needs to be more forgiving in Dynamic Lighting (gaps, even in connected lines, reveal more than they should) (Fixed Mar 8) When map grid is .5 size (for example), dim light does not reveal anything. (Fixed on Mar 8) If the grid is off on AFoW, setting the AFoW size to anything other than 1 will result in incorrect measurements. (Fixed Mar 19) The Ruler is not measuring correcting when the grid size is something other than 1. (Fixed Mar 19) When "Dim Light Reveals" is unchecked, dim light still reveals areas in AFoW. (Fixed Mar 19) The page settings have always been unclear about the interaction between page scale and grid sizes; changes to those settings will be going to the Dev server next week for feedback. (Released Mar 19) Official purchased modules will be patched to reflect the above, starting with recent modules that use those settings extensively. Advanced Fog of War Cells obstruct token Dynamic Lighting Vision  (Fixed April 30) Auras and status icons rotate with the token (Fixed May 7) Auras: don't display if the grid is turned off (Fixed May 7) There is an odd interaction between AFoW and Dynamic Lighting where your token will have a square "reveal" for AFoW and a round light for Dynamic Lighting. (Fxed May 7) Tokens that are not assigned to a character sheet do not emit light when AFoW is on. (Fixed May 14) CTRL-L doesn't work properly for GMs; If Enforce Line of Sight is off, one token will not see the other token's light source, even if they are unobstructed. This only affects GMs, however; the player can see the other token. GMs using CTRL-L will see all tokens, even if they do not have "All Players See Light" enabled, and will also see the full range of vision, blocked only by Dynamic Lighting (Fixed May 14) Updates January 29: Light sources without "Has Sight" turned on now shed light. This should resolve most of the issues that I see reported in this thread and elsewhere. The default token now works properly. Deleting a token does not crash the VTT. AFoW now resets for players when the GM resets it; the player no longer needs to refresh. January 30: Fix AFoW crashing when loading some pages. Dynamic Lighting lines now draw beneath the grid instead of above it. Auras no longer render in the wrong location when a token is rotated. Auras will still draw when the radius is set to 0. January 31: Fixed the tutorial crashing on load Fixed the new GM Layer Opacity slider so it shows up for Free users as well as subscribers. February 14: Items on map layer no longer show token bars March 8: AFoW Sees Through Walls - fixed the issue that seemed to be caused by Dynamic Lighting gaps, but was in fact caused by Advanced Fog of War being able to peer through walls. When map grid size is not 1 ( .5 for example), dim light does not reveal anything. - fixed the issue where dim light does not reveal anything. However, please see the Known Issues list for related issues. March 15: Fixed the ruler measurement bug that caused the ruler to display the wrong grid cell measurement if the width of the grid cell had been changed from the default 1 value. Now regardless of the cell width, individual cells will correctly measure the distance set for a cell in the Page Settings. March 19: Page Settings and Page Settings Default user interface has been updated to be more clear, and Pixel measurements have been added in addition to the way things were originally measured. Ruler measurement calculation corrected for Pages with grid width settings other than 1. Advanced Fog of War Reveal calculation has been updated to limit player vision correctly. Dim light no longer allows players to see through Fog of War while Dynamic Lighting is on. March 29: Fixed an issue where AFoW did not reveal using DL vision radius multiplier Fixed an issue where Tokens with sight did not have infinite-ranged AFoW vision when Global Illumination is on April 2: Fixed an issue where global Illumination was active even when Dynamic Lighting is disabled. April 23: Token bars have launched from the Dev server. They have thus been removed from this post and moved to a new thread here . April 30: VTT now refreshes properly after switching Dynamic Lighting off Dynamic Lighting now shines through Advanced Fog of War (returned to previous behavior) Turning off Dynamic Lighting clears the canvas May 7: Advanced Fog of War now reveals in a circle if both Dynamic Lighting and AFOW are both on. Status icons and square auras no longer rotate when rotating the token When the grid is disabled, auras now display correctly. May 14: Dim Light is no longer too bright when both Dynamic Lighting and AFOW are both on. Ctrl+L functionality now works as intended. See the wiki for details. Fixed a Typo on Token Settings Advanced Tab ("Multiplyer") and renamed the AFOW "View Distance" to "Reveal Distance" for clarity. Token bar text overlays are now centered vertically. Token bars no longer push status icons down except when the token bars are set to Top Overlap and the status icons are at the top. May 28: Transparent Backgrounds with Advanced Fog of War should now correctly block previously revealed cells Moving a group of tokens no longer results in a ping each time June 4: On large maps with Advanced Fog of War, when the GM reloaded, the map was revealed for all players. Note that you may need to reset fog on your map to completely fix this issue if you encountered it. Player controlled tokens (and their token bars, status icons, and name plates) could be hidden by AFoW. The Fog of War hide tool overlapped, creating progressively darker areas in the GM view. Oblong tokens had oblong auras. These are now circular. Please note: The aura's distance measures from the short "end" of the oblong token, so the actual aura distance from the long edge will be greater than the aura's distance setting. Auras could not be set to a negative value. They can now be set to a negative value.
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Edited 1555622089
Drespar
Roll20 Team
To pass through information from the original thread : With this split of the original thread I recognize that there are issues (I am still currently working through the original thread to update this one) that may not already be in the list. If you do not notice your issue in the Known Issues &nbsp;section, please feel free to re-post it so I can make sure it gets added in. Furthermore, if you are experiencing an issue that should be fixed per the Resolved Issues &nbsp;section, please state the numbered bullet corresponding with your issue (this will help greatly in quickly organizing!). I will be continuing to format these threads to assist in navigation. We are also continuing to gather a birds-eye-view of the original thread so that we can inform priorities going into the next round of fixes. I will be updating this post with general information outside of the direct topic at hand of this thread as I can. Thank you everyone for your patience! If you have any concerns regarding purchases or billing please contact us directly at&nbsp; <a href="mailto:Team@Roll20.net" rel="nofollow">Team@Roll20.net</a> &nbsp;so that we can get you taken care of.&nbsp;
1555020288
My API box is currently stuck on&nbsp; "Restarting sandbox due to script changes... Previous shutdown complete, starting up..." Nothing I do changes this. If I restart the API Sandbox, it gives another two lines saying these two things. Is this part of the script changes yall are working on?
1555020634
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Hi Fayne, That sounds like a separate issue. Could you go ahead and submit a new report with a link to your game so we can take a closer look? Thanks!
1555020981
Nevermind, seems to have fixed itself. Thank you though.&nbsp;
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Edited 1555023112
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
There are several significant issues that I do not see listed in the known issues above that worked correctly prior to the Jan 29 update (or one of the subsequent patches). Game Id is 4514820. In each image, the left side is the GM view with DL lines, token settings and page settings. The right side is the player view. 1. AFoW Blocks What a Token Should See First an image with DL only using global illumination. The player can see all the way to the DL lines. This follows the expected behavior. As soon as you turn on AFoW, the fog of war blocks what the token should be able to see. This next example is back to DL only with global illumination turned off. A light source has been added that casts bright and dim light; it's settings are on the lower token settings page. In the DL only example, there is part of the corridor in bright light, part in dim light, and part in no light. For the AFoW version, we have added an AFoW view distance of 10. If the value was blank, the player would only be able to see the token and nothing else. As soon as AFoW is turned on, we can no longer see the portion of the light source outside of the view distance. The expected behavior: The token should be able to see the same thing with DL regardless of whether AFoW is turned on or off. AFoW should not hide what a token should be able to see.
1555021787
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
The second half of the previous post (the part including the light source) highlights the next significant issue. 2. AFoW reveals what a token should not be able to see In the first image with DL only, the player's vision and the light source are blocked by the DL lines. The player cannot see the portion of the corridor lacking illumination. This is expected behavior. In the second image, the AFoW reveals a portion of the corridor that is not illuminated. This next example is back to DL only with global illumination turned off. A light source has been added that casts bright and dim light; it's settings are on the lower token settings page. In the DL only example, there is part of the corridor in bright light, part in dim light, and part in no light. For the AFoW version, we have added an AFoW view distance of 10. If the value was blank, the player would only be able to see the token and nothing else. As soon as AFoW is turned on, we can no longer see the portion of the light source outside of the view distance. The expected behavior: &nbsp;A player should not see portions of the map that are not illuminated.
1555045460
DMD
Pro
I'm experiencing similar issues to those reported by Brian C.&nbsp; Advanced fog of war is blocking light sources.&nbsp; I've been using Roll20 for several years, and I've never seen it do this.&nbsp; My 4 players and I lost an hour of game time trying to figure out what was wrong.&nbsp; I ended up using global illumination to enable my players to see something other than the checkerboard of mostly blackness that they were seeing.&nbsp; I had put a lot of time into setting up suspensful lighting effects for the final dungeon level of a climactic point in our story.&nbsp; I had tested it out thoroughly when I made the map a few months ago, and it was working fine.&nbsp; This was extremely frustrating and disappointing; I hope this gets resolved.
1555069610
Sam T.
KS Backer
I had an open question on the previous thread about an issue that Stephanie had said was resolved, but is definitely not working as intended. Stephanie B. &nbsp;said: If a token has nothing in Emits Light and it has an AFoW View Distance set, AFoW will reveal up to the view distance, based on any other light sources around.&nbsp; Whereas, with those settings, AFoW is actually revealed up to the view distance&nbsp; regardless &nbsp;of whether there are any light sources around. Brian C has described this issue very clearly and in much more detail above (thanks Brian), so I won't rehash my full report here other than to say this is still a very big issue for me and my group.
1555070426
So, with the "New" bug report thread, my post from the other day disappears.&nbsp; With no Answer at all, so, Here it is: Just wondering if we will ever see functionality again for AFOW and Dynamic Lighting and CTR-L.&nbsp; I don't use and probably won't use Animations.&nbsp; So, how about creating another layer of pay to play for folks who want Animations and give them a different set of tools.&nbsp; Get the rest of us who have paid for 4 months of Pro without being able to use a majority of the functions we bought Pro to use.&nbsp; Or, Give each pro User an additional month of Pro for each month that we have not been able to use our Pro features, up until you resolve the issues!&nbsp; If it starts to cost you money, then you might be even more motivated to fix this functionality that you Broke!&nbsp; C'mon guys.&nbsp; A lot of us are stuck because we have purchased content from you and cannot take that with us if we go elsewhere.&nbsp; Also, we have a lot of development and creation that we would lose.&nbsp; Fix the Darn System or roll it back to where we were in January and then rethink what you are trying to do.&nbsp; 4 Months is plenty of time for you to have Re-Factored the entire interface to write it properly and get it to work.&nbsp; Instead, we have seen 4 months of Bandaids and patches and hot fixes that don't fix the core things we all use. &nbsp; Please start considering your customers who have been with your for at least as year or more and who think your system is awesome and are bringing new people to your product.&nbsp; But, I cannot, in good conscience, recommend anyone to go to Plus or Pro if the problems continue to persist.&nbsp; Think about that! Anyone Care to reply?
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Edited 1555078440
I will report this here, since I suspect the audience here may be perfect for this... but mods are welcome to delete it.... For the benefit of helping any games with excessive with lag/speed, especially related to Dynamic Lighting...&nbsp; - Could I suggest the following.... Try using Chrome Beta... ( <a href="https://www.google.com/chrome/beta/" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com/chrome/beta/</a> ) Clear the cache on the browser Try even going into 'incogntio' mode... Don't have too many light sources, or if you do.... try turning the ones further away rooms 'off'. - This does mean that KeithCurtis's trick of leaving light 'breadcrumbs', as an alternative to Advanced Fog of War...may not be usable... We tried these 'tricks' and went from a game that was SOO laggy I almost gave up and ended it early, to a perfect game with no lag at all the following week!
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Drespar
Roll20 Team
Thanks for carrying those over Brian! Currently working through the first one you mention . I created a copy of the game and was seeing exactly what you mention. Seems that since the center of those tiles fall just outside of the DL lines (where the token would mark them as "seen") it is keeping them dark. However, it would still be expected that the areas be illuminated until out of sight where you would see similar results except it would be the grayed out version. Ensuring that there is a ticket made now and will get it added to the known issues list.
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Drespar
Roll20 Team
On to the second post ! Just to clarify, with your expected behavior: The expected behavior: &nbsp;A player should not see portions of the map that are not illuminated. Are you referencing the northern revealed area of the token that does not contain the brazier's light emanating from the southern room?
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Drespar
Roll20 Team
DMD and Sam thank you! Another thank you to Brian for laying it out clearly for others to get behind :)
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Correct, AFoW reveals what a token cannot otherwise see through DL up to the token's AFoW view distance. Imagine a map where a 100-foot hallway is illuminated, and a door opens to a side room that is completely in the dark. Currently, to get AFoW to work, a token would need to have a view distance. For this example, let's make it 30 feet. In the current state of AFoW with DL, the player would only be able to see up to 60 feet (2 * 30-foot radius) of the fully illuminated hallway at any one time because AFoW is blocking light outside of the view distance. Once they go in the dark room, they would not be able to see any creatures in the room, but the layout of the room would already be revealed because AFoW is clearing the fog of war regardless of whether an area is illuminated. Before the Jan 29 update, the player would be able to see the entire illuminated hallway, but only up to 60 feet of the fog of war would be cleared at a time. When the token went in the dark room, the player would not be able to see anything, and the fog of war would not be cleared for the room. The AFoW and DL interaction was correct pre-Jan 29. Drespar said: On to the second post ! Just to clarify, with your expected behavior: The expected behavior: &nbsp;A player should not see portions of the map that are not illuminated. Are you referencing the northern revealed area of the token that does not contain the brazier's light emanating from the southern room?
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
The panacea would be for DL to actually clear the fog of war when AFoW is active rather than just approximate that behavior. What a player can see through their tokens seems to already be calculated for DL for the entire map (zooming in does not help performance). The same calculations could be used to clear portions of the fog of war canvas that match what the tokens can see. That would remove the AFoW stair-step reveal as well as the second set of calculations for AFoW. AFoW could then even be a sub-setting of DL. The only time AFoW should possibly determine what a token can see is when DL is off, such as when playing a wargame with a lot of units controlled by a player where having all of them have sight and generate light could impact DL. Even then, a 100x100 map with obstacles (DL lines) strewn about and 100 light-generating tokens controlled by a player works pretty well.
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Drespar
Roll20 Team
Re: Bob's post Apologies that this didn't get answered in the original post! Admittedly that post was running a bit long and I have no doubt I missed quite a number of things in trying to get things tidied up. AFoW and Dynamic Lighting are still being worked on constantly to resolve the issues that are being reported. We know that this has been frustrating and we appreciate all the efforts of everyone helping to point out where things are not working as expected. If you have any billing concerns or questions, please contact us at <a href="mailto:Team@Roll20.net" rel="nofollow">Team@Roll20.net</a> and we will get back to you as soon as we can!
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Edited 1555089238
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Re: Brian's Posts ( Post 1 , Post 2 ) Thank you for clarifying! I think this really is an extension of Known Issues 17 of what you mentioned in your original issue explanation . When AFoW is enabled but there is no view distance attached to the AFoW view distance field, then the AFoW cells are overlapping what would otherwise be visible. Setting the AFoW vision radius is acting as it should. somewhat. &nbsp; Previously, having an AFoW vision radius would reveal the area entirely (not the grayed out version) and could essentially be used as a substitute for Dynamic Lighting line of sight. Currently it just reveals the map as you have stated which when paired with AFoW cells blocking Dynamic Lighting makes for a confusing experience. (A lot of this is a re-statement of your Post 1 and Post 2 just to make sure I am thinking through it correctly.) Provided that light sources both from the player token light sources &nbsp; and &nbsp; non-player token light sources can provide line of sight through the AFoW cells, clearing them while in line of sight, do you think this issue would largely be remedied? (Keep in mind that with the example game you provided, when the token leaves the line of sight of a portion of that hallway the "stairstep" appearance would return as the cells need filled back in overtop of a gray map due to how revelations are calculated from the center) Edit: Secondary question-- What is the expected behavior when using the Advanced Fog of War view distance field? Should it reveal the map entirely (colored version) or only clear fog of war? (Keeping it gray)
1555096851
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Hi Drespar, Drespar &nbsp;said: Re: Brian's Posts ( Post 1 ,&nbsp; Post 2 ) There is a lot in your post to unpack, so I will break it up a bit. Thank you for clarifying! I think this really is an extension of&nbsp; Known Issues 17 &nbsp;of what you mentioned in your&nbsp; original issue explanation . Yes, this was a bit of a rehash of both issues I had brought up. I had put them together into a scenario to show how a GM is currently caught between the two incorrectly working issues. Sorry if that confused the conversation.&nbsp; When AFoW is enabled but there is no view distance attached to the AFoW view distance field, then the AFoW cells are overlapping what would otherwise be visible. There is more to this though. Leaving the AFoW view distance on a token sets the view distance as 0. This is what is happening in the first half of issue 1. However, the issue continues regardless if the view distance is set to a positive value. AFoW blocks light that the token should see if that light is beyond the view distance. In the second half of issue 1, the view distance is set to 10, but the light source is 15 feet away. The player token cannot see the origin of the light source when AFoW is turned on (image #4). Setting the AFoW vision radius is acting as it should.&nbsp; somewhat. &nbsp; Previously, having an AFoW vision radius would reveal the area entirely (not the grayed out version) and could essentially be used as a substitute for Dynamic Lighting line of sight. I disagree with this assessment, at least when DL and AFoW were combined pre-Jan 29. Previously areas that were not illuminated were not revealed even if they were in the token's view distance. In the following preview image for one of my products, the visible token is a light source. The token controlled by all players is a 1x1 pixel token in the corner of the map. It has a view distance that covers the entire map. Notice that the map is not revealed except where it has been illuminated by the light. Currently it just reveals the map as you have stated which when paired with AFoW cells blocking Dynamic Lighting makes for a confusing experience. (A lot of this is a re-statement of your Post 1 and Post 2 just to make sure I am thinking through it correctly.) Agreed. Provided that light sources both from the&nbsp; player token light sources &nbsp; and &nbsp; non-player token light sources &nbsp;can provide line of sight through the AFoW cells, clearing them while in line of sight, do you think this issue would largely be remedied? I am not sure that I am following this description. The image above should be able to be replicated. Once a token can see a square with illumination, regardless of the source of the illumination, the fog of war should be cleared for that square. In the old implementation, the square had to be within the view distance for the fog of war to be cleared in that square. (Keep in mind that with the example game you provided, when the token leaves the line of sight of a portion of that hallway the "stairstep" appearance would return as the cells need filled back in overtop of a gray map due to how revelations are calculated from the center) Yes, if I am understanding your description, this was the old behavior. Pre Jan 29 update, a token could see all the way to illuminated squares. After the token moved to a place where the DL lines blocked vision to those squares, only squares that had their center revealed would have the fog of war cleared. Edit: Secondary question-- What is the expected behavior when using the Advanced Fog of War view distance field? Should it reveal the map entirely (colored version) or only clear fog of war? (Keeping it gray) Neither? The image above demonstrates the pre Jan 29 behavior at least when AFoW and DL are combined. I personally don't think AFoW should run without DL, and I seem to remember pre Jan 29 that AFoW actually needed DL to function. In the image above, the player token is a 1x1 transparent token hidden in a corner of the map. It has sight, does not emit light, and its view distance covers the entire map, but the map is not revealed in color except where the light-emitting token (which is not controlled by any player) provides vision. As the light-emitting token is moved by the GM, the players see the places where the fog of war was cleared in grey. The only function of the token's AFoW view distance should be to restrict the maximum distance from the token that vision clears the fog of war. &nbsp;To expand on this, the Jan 29 update and subsequent patches seem to have changed behavior of the token's sight options to add provisos and combinations not indicated by the text. The following is how the token options should behave: Emits Light: The token emits light based on the values supplied. It is visible to players that control the token. All Players See Light: The light is instead visible to all players. Has Sight: The token can see all light sources available to it within its field of view, blocked only by DL lines. AFoW does not block this, but regular fog of war would. AFoW View Distance: Limits how far away from the token that illuminated squares clear the fog of war. Personally, I would prefer that the AFoW view distance field not exist, with all tokens eseentially having unlimited view distance, but in the current implementation, that may not be possible. If a player controls multiple tokens, the view distance is increasing required calculations. If what the player can see (across the entire map, not just where they are zoomed in) was used to clear the fog of war, it would actually be simpler than running calculations from multiple tokens. This would also have solved or prevented the issues with AFoW blocking vision, AFoW leaking through DL lines, and AFoW revealing portions of the map that could not be seen.
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Edited 1555144642
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Issue 3: All Tokens Controlled By a Player Generate At Least Some Light I missed the early days of this update to some extent, but I seem to remember reading that player tokens were disappearing if they were in an area that did not have illumination and the AFoW view distance was not set (or was set to 0). As a response to that, tokens controlled by players were changed to generate enough light/view distance (not sure which) to cover the token. Respectfully, this was a kludge. While it allowed the token to be viewed, it causes fog of war of war to be cleared where the token was even if the area is not illuminated. Player-controlled tokens on the token layer (and sCtrl+L tokens for the GM) should be rendered in full as the nearest item in the z-order. This would also solve the issue with only being able to see part of tokens with a view angle less than 360.
1555099684
I don't understand why something that was working for so long was broken and it's taken months to fix.&nbsp; Reading the thread above it seems the developers dont even understand how it should be working.&nbsp; I want it to work the way it did.&nbsp; It was perfect.&nbsp;&nbsp;
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Jip
Pro
The way it worked was hardly perfect, it was not running right and causing much lag for a variety of people.
1555104124
Seriously. I bought Pro 5 years ago because of dynamic lighting. Every update seemed to add more and more features and it seemed to get better and better. But nowadays, if the chrome tab is open for linger than 1 hour, it slows to a crawl where literally every click takes 4-5 seconds to register, where you input data only to have it revert back once the website updates, and now they start breaking literally everything I'm paying for. I can't think of any other service that would get away with bugs this long.&nbsp; Look guys, I work in engineering. I know software fixes take a lot of time. I don't want to diminish the hard work you're putting in. It's likely you didn't back up the build before your AFoW release, and that's why you're having to stick to the build and hot fix every other day.&nbsp; But this is becoming a PR nightmare. I'm already looking for alternative services, and I've found something that would serve my needs with a few more tweaks. But it's a TON of work for me to move my 5+ year campaign to another service, so I'm holding out hope. You need to address the things that CURRENT customers have purchased for years that are now broken before you fix the things that are new additions that are broken.&nbsp;
1555104482
What is the timeline for the CTRL+L fix? What is the timeline for broken Auras fix? What is the timeline for less than 360 degrees of light fix? What is the timeline for token light multiplier fix? What is the timeline for selecting multiple tokens without a mystery ping fix? These are features I've purchased FOR YEARS and now can no longer use because of added features I didn't ask for. Imagine purchasing a car, driving it for years, then the manufacturer wants to add a smart GPS system to your car, without your consent, which then breaks your radio, your gas gauge, your bluetooth setup, and starts smelling like burnt wires. That's what this feels like.&nbsp;
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Edited 1555139520
Can we get an official answer on whether or not Roll20 is planning to fix this new "update" to return DL + AFoW to the pre-update behavior? It was literally working fine - no staircase effects with line of sight, and areas explored already become grayed out. An update breaks it for everyone, including official 5E hardcover campaigns . It's like you guys don't even test your own changes before pushing them out. It's been almost 2 months and no fix. Seriously, can you guys consider operating like every other tech companies and experiment when you push things out, so you can 1) roll them back when things go bonkers and 2) gauge user behavior before deciding to go 100%? This is honestly ridiculously. This "update" you pushed made a working feature worse, and hasn't been fixed for two months. Just hiring a single competent PM who actually uses these features when designing them would have prevented this. If I pushed a change like this at my job, I'd worry about my most engaged and paying users leaving &nbsp;and probably my job so this is an on fire issue for me to fix ASAP, yet here... two months later...
1555185964
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Re:&nbsp; Brian's Post There is more to this though. Leaving the AFoW view distance on a token sets the view distance as 0. This is what is happening in the first half of issue 1. However, the issue continues regardless if the view distance is set to a positive value. AFoW blocks light that the token should see if that light is beyond the view distance. In the second half of issue 1, the view distance is set to 10, but the light source is 15 feet away. The player token cannot see the origin of the light source when AFoW is turned on (image #4). Yes, you are absolutely correct. I did not word my statement very well. Default distance certainly seems to be set invisibly and can cause some confusion as well. I am going to add that as an issue as well (AFoW View Distance invisibly and automatically defaults to 0) which can be taken in combination with&nbsp; Known Issue 17 . (I am somewhat going to lump a few quotes together because I think they fit better together conversationally) Setting the AFoW vision radius is acting as it should.&nbsp; somewhat. &nbsp; Previously, having an AFoW vision radius would reveal the area entirely (not the grayed out version) and could essentially be used as a substitute for Dynamic Lighting line of sight. I disagree with this assessment, at least when DL and AFoW were combined pre-Jan 29. Previously areas that were not illuminated were not revealed even if they were in the token's view distance. In the following preview image for one of my products, the visible token is a light source. The token controlled by all players is a 1x1 pixel token in the corner of the map. It has a view distance that covers the entire map. Notice that the map is not revealed except where it has been illuminated by the light. Edit: Secondary question-- What is the expected behavior when using the Advanced Fog of War view distance field? Should it reveal the map entirely (colored version) or only clear fog of war? (Keeping it gray) Neither? The image above demonstrates the pre Jan 29 behavior at least when AFoW and DL are combined. I personally don't think AFoW should run without DL, and I seem to remember pre Jan 29 that AFoW actually needed DL to function. In the image above, the player token is a 1x1 transparent token hidden in a corner of the map. It has sight, does not emit light, and its view distance covers the entire map, but the map is not revealed in color except where the light-emitting token (which is not controlled by any player) provides vision. As the light-emitting token is moved by the GM, the players see the places where the fog of war was cleared in grey. The only function of the token's AFoW view distance should be to restrict the maximum distance from the token that vision clears the fog of war. &nbsp;To expand on this, the Jan 29 update and subsequent patches seem to have changed behavior of the token's sight options to add provisos and combinations not indicated by the text. The following is how the token options should behave: Emits Light: The token emits light based on the values supplied. It is visible to players that control the token. All Players See Light: The light is instead visible to all players. Has Sight: The token can see all light sources available to it within its field of view, blocked only by DL lines. AFoW does not block this, but regular fog of war would. AFoW View Distance: Limits how far away from the token that illuminated squares clear the fog of war. Personally, I would prefer that the AFoW view distance field not exist, with all tokens eseentially having unlimited view distance, but in the current implementation, that may not be possible. If a player controls multiple tokens, the view distance is increasing required calculations. If what the player can see (across the entire map, not just where they are zoomed in) was used to clear the fog of war, it would actually be simpler than running calculations from multiple tokens. This would also have solved or prevented the issues with AFoW blocking vision, AFoW leaking through DL lines, and AFoW revealing portions of the map that could not be seen. This is all super helpful, so thank you for this! To speak to the last quoted portions-- Mainly the following AFoW View Distance: Limits how far away from the token that illuminated squares clear the fog of war. And Personally, I would prefer that the AFoW view distance field not exist , with all tokens eseentially having unlimited view distance, but in the current implementation, that may not be possible. If a player controls multiple tokens, the view distance is increasing required calculations. These might be conflicting statements and I just want to double check :) The first section would be ideal for preventing ambient light from being perceived from too far away (i.e. a torch or candle from across the map) whereas the second section contradicts that somewhat. If I am misunderstanding your point here please let me know!
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Edited 1555186571
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Re:&nbsp; Brians Issue 3 Post I believe this may be the originator of Known Issue 3 -- so I will bundle this in there. EDIT: As may be noticed in the original posts above, I think this also speaks to Known Issue 1 and Known Issue 18
1555186698
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Drespar said: Re:&nbsp; Brians Issue 3 Post I believe this may be the originator of Known Issue 3 -- so I will bundle this in there. Oh, do you mean:? 3. Token bars can be obscured by Fog of War. Interesting, I did not realize that helped since the token bars are outside the token's space. I would still suggest player-controlled tokens (and their token bars, etc.) be drawn as the nearest object.&nbsp;
1555187465
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Hi Fayne and AuraofMana, Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to discuss a timeline. A fix's pass/fail throughout QA may inadvertently extend beyond any specifically stated date of arrival that I would provide. That said: The current fix being worked on is for the Ctrl+L functionality which we hope to have out ASAP. Our sincerest apologies for the on-going troubles with this update. I will be continuing to bring these issues to the devs so that we can prioritize future fixes to ensure we are hitting the biggest pain points quickly.
1555188269
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Drespar said: Re:&nbsp; Brian's Post *snip* This is all super helpful, so thank you for this! To speak to the last quoted portions-- Mainly the following AFoW View Distance: Limits how far away from the token that illuminated squares clear the fog of war. And Personally, I would prefer that the AFoW view distance field not exist , with all tokens eseentially having unlimited view distance, but in the current implementation, that may not be possible. If a player controls multiple tokens, the view distance is increasing required calculations. These might be conflicting statements and I just want to double check :)&nbsp; You are welcome. :) No, the statements are not contradictory, just running up against two different scenarios. Tackling the second statement first: I would prefer that AFoW view distance did not exist, full stop. If a token can see the center of a square with DL, the fog of war for that square should be cleared. Now for the first statement: If the AFoW view distance must exist, its function should be limited to restricting how far away from a token an illuminated square can be and still clear the fog of war. I am assuming that AFoW view distance was initially implemented as a performance issue to restrict how far calculations needed to be made. The first section would be ideal for preventing ambient light from being perceived from too far away (i.e. a torch or candle from across the map) whereas the second section contradicts that somewhat. If I am misunderstanding your point here please let me know! Restricting the vision of a token so it does not see external light sources a certain distance away is an interesting concept, but it does not fit with any rule sets I of which I am aware. Certainly D&amp;D 5e (and likely previous versions and spinoffs) does not have that. It also does not particularly fit with "reality" as the distances usually in place on maps that are using light sources (5'-10' squares) are well within the range where people can see light and objects, as referenced in this article . Considering the absolute threshold, the brightness of a candle flame, and the way a glowing object dims according to the square of the distance away from it, vision scientists conclude that one could make out the faint glimmer of a candle flame up to 30 miles away. and Human-scale objects are resolvable as extended objects from a distance of just under 2 miles (3 km). For example, at that distance, we would just be able to make out two distinct headlights on a car. So, while there might be some application for restricting vision based on distance, that application doesn't really exist for at least 75% of games played on your platform . If such a feature as restricting vision of a token were to be added, it should be a sub-option of the the token's "Has Sight" option, because it would be restricting vision. Conflating AFoW view distance into restricting a token's real-time vision has created some major problems.
I have tried leaving a game but I still have full accesses to the game for some reason it even does not have me registered as a player.
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Edited 1555276914
Gen Kitty
Forum Champion
The wandering bard said: I have tried leaving a game but I still have full accesses to the game for some reason it even does not have me registered as a player. This is a known issue and has nothing to do with AFoW.&nbsp; Please read <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/7363384/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/7363384/</a> for more details.
1555333135
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Resolved Issues 13. When "Dim Light Reveals" is unchecked, dim light still reveals areas in AFoW. (Fixed Mar 19) This item is not fixed. Fog of war is cleared based on the token's AFoW view distance regardless of whether a square is lit by bright or dim light or not illuminated at all.
1555422437
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Brian C. said: This item is not fixed. Fog of war is cleared based on the token's AFoW view distance regardless of whether a square is lit by bright or dim light or not illuminated at all. Keep in mind this portion from the wiki article: Any value entered in the View Distance under the Advanced Fog of War section will supersede any value you have in Emits Light. Ideally, if you are using Dynamic Lighting, you should not need to use the AFoW View Distance value at all. It is primarily intended to allow those whose computers cannot handle both Dynamic Lighting + AFoW the option to at least run one&nbsp; or &nbsp;the other. That said, I think there is something to be said for making this information more visible.
1555427303
Jip
Pro
Might I request a video on Roll20 official pages to be posted once the problems have been solved for the majority so that the functions and possibilities of the system are clear, because I can only speak for me personally but it's quite unclear how the Advanced Fog of War systems are supposed to operate alone and in relation with other lighting systems.&nbsp; I think it's very difficult for many people, including myself, to contribute to these discussions as half the parameters being discussed are not something I'm familiar with even though I'm trying to use the system.
1555431526
Another week, another release, but no fixes to the problems that most of us have been plagued with regarding AFOW and Dynamic Lighting.&nbsp; The things I purchased plus and then pro account for.&nbsp; Hmmm.&nbsp; And no word regarding those issues.&nbsp; Most of all, CTR-L does not work.&nbsp; Has not worked since the "Update" that allowed animations.&nbsp; Can someone please tell me what I am paying a Pro Subscription for?&nbsp; I mean 3 months of broken functionality.&nbsp; And no compensation from the company.&nbsp; No acknowledgment that things are really broken and people who have purchased content, like myself have limited functionality.&nbsp; And we see fixes to things that aren't even remotely related to AFOW and Dynamic Lighting. &nbsp; Waiting with anticipation for the "We are really sorry and are doing the best we can and are working diligently on the problems" answer.&nbsp; I understand that, after reading it for the umpteenth time.&nbsp; Now, what is Roll20 going to do to smooth over the fact that customers who have been paying for a service and functionality have not been able to use it for 3 Months, at least?
1555435577
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Hi Jip, I think that is a very important point to bring up. Documentation on the wiki can sometimes run fairly long and is not always the first thing that comes to mind when someone has an issue. Bringing this information more to the forefront would certainly help. I have let the appropriate parties know that there is a desire for this functionality to receive some more interactive/faster forms of information. Thanks! Hi Bob, While I am unable to provide specific ETAs, I will reassure you that these things are still being worked on. Some issues are easier to solve than others and take longer for us to QA and nail down exact reproducible steps and find root causes. We understand the urgency of this issue and it is a very high priority. Apologies if these issues seem like they are not a priority based on release notes; continued updates in other areas of the site are a result of different teams who are not involved with AFoW and Dynamic Lighting continuing to work on their projects. We are still highly focused on resolving these issues and ensuring we do so as efficiently as possible. As mentioned in the prior post, I encourage you to contact us via email at&nbsp; <a href="mailto:Team@Roll20.net" rel="nofollow">Team@Roll20.net</a> &nbsp;for any billing concerns.
Bob P. said: Another week, another release, but no fixes to the problems that most of us have been plagued with regarding AFOW and Dynamic Lighting.&nbsp; The things I purchased plus and then pro account for.&nbsp; Hmmm.&nbsp; And no word regarding those issues.&nbsp; Most of all, CTR-L does not work.&nbsp; Has not worked since the "Update" that allowed animations.&nbsp; Can someone please tell me what I am paying a Pro Subscription for?&nbsp; I mean 3 months of broken functionality.&nbsp; And no compensation from the company.&nbsp; No acknowledgment that things are really broken and people who have purchased content, like myself have limited functionality.&nbsp; And we see fixes to things that aren't even remotely related to AFOW and Dynamic Lighting. &nbsp; Waiting with anticipation for the "We are really sorry and are doing the best we can and are working diligently on the problems" answer.&nbsp; I understand that, after reading it for the umpteenth time.&nbsp; Now, what is Roll20 going to do to smooth over the fact that customers who have been paying for a service and functionality have not been able to use it for 3 Months, at least? I like the way you say we have "limited functionality". That's an understatement, but that made me laugh, so thanks pal. As for me, I haven't been able to work on my campaigns since 3 months. I've been considering I'm glad to finally read that the main issues are being treated as high priority. Sadly I don't think we'll get any compensation for this period.
1555443928
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Drespar said: Brian C. said: This item is not fixed. Fog of war is cleared based on the token's AFoW view distance regardless of whether a square is lit by bright or dim light or not illuminated at all. Keep in mind this portion from the wiki article: Any value entered in the View Distance under the Advanced Fog of War section will supersede any value you have in Emits Light. Ideally, if you are using Dynamic Lighting, you should not need to use the AFoW View Distance value at all. It is primarily intended to allow those whose computers cannot handle both Dynamic Lighting + AFoW the option to at least run one&nbsp; or &nbsp;the other. That said, I think there is something to be said for making this information more visible. I apologize. The majority of my testing is done with tokens that do not emit light. I did experiment with a light-emitting token with the AFoW view distance not set, and the token's light does clear the fog of war (including the dim light portion when the page option is set), but any other light-emitting tokens not owned by the player are still ignored. So resolved issue 13 is partially fixed in that it only works for light from the player's token rather than all light sources. That being said, the change to the interaction between DL and AFoW view distance is a breaking change that I do not feel was highlighted sufficiently when it was introduced, nor did it seem to be necessary but may have been unavoidable with the rewrite. Previously, AFoW view distance had to be set for DL-illuminated squares within range to clear the fog of war. If AFoW view distance was not set, DL did not clear fog of war at all. Now the AFoW view distance clears everything in range regardless of illumination. This might be less of an issue for people with ongoing games. It is a larger issue for existing adventures on the marketplace with tokens that provide sight to players (such as my example above or pre-gen characters). Add to that the removal of other light sources' ability to clear fog of war for a player, and this has been a debilitating update.
1555445709
Not directly related to this issue but is it a coincidence that a fix went out and now there are multiple reports of things failing?&nbsp; The reports seem to be all related to a failure to connect, or failure to upload/download data from the servers?&nbsp; So again - please get your system stable rather than just pile on the code until it fails.... So again - please get your system stable rather than just pile on the code until it fails.... 5e Roll20 sheet now does not update saving throw and HD type when choose class?&nbsp; Is this since the update today to char sheets, or is it related to charactermancer?&nbsp; Also happens on Dev server.&nbsp; This issue does not affect the AiME sheet - which was based on the same sheet before charactermancer messed with it. So again - please get your system stable rather than just pile on the code until it fails....
1555492448
Sam T.
KS Backer
Brian C. said: This might be less of an issue for people with ongoing games.&nbsp; As someone with an ongoing game that has been thoroughly disrupted by this issue, costing me and my players many, many hours of having sessions ruined by the problem, having to test the extent of the various bugs, trying to establish work-arounds for the issues, repeatedly redesigning and testing my maps, etc. etc. all so that we can have something playable with a severely reduced level of functionality, I can assure you that is a BIG issue for us too.&nbsp;
1555498948
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Sam T. said: Brian C. said: This might be less of an issue for people with ongoing games.&nbsp; As someone with an ongoing game that has been thoroughly disrupted by this issue, costing me and my players many, many hours of having sessions ruined by the problem, having to test the extent of the various bugs, trying to establish work-arounds for the issues, repeatedly redesigning and testing my maps, etc. etc. all so that we can have something playable with a severely reduced level of functionality, I can assure you that is a BIG issue for us too.&nbsp; I apologize, it was not my intention to trivialize what you, I, and countless others are having to do and go through because Roll20 again chose to release a major feature or update when a modicum of testing on our part has shown it was not ready for production. I was referring solely to the change in behavior of AFoW view distance when paired with DL. Previously, the AFoW view distance was required to get illuminated squares to clear fog of war. Now, it looks like the field should be blank when the dust finally settles. Whether this breaking change was a conscious decision or a lack of knowledge of the existing behavior on the part of the implementer, I do not know. It is difficult to tell based on official responses in the previous thread, but it seems like this will be the implementation moving forward. For this specific change, someone with an ongoing game needs to update their player-controlled tokens, and when the other bugs are finally fixed, AFoW should combine with DL correctly. It is annoying but takes a small amount of time and can be done right now. For an independent adventure with pre-gens, we have to wait until the dust settles, issue changes, and resubmit to the marketplace. Even then, that only helps new games with the product after it is updated. There are countless copies out there in games that will always have the wrong implementation unless Roll20 issues a patch or the GM fixes things themselves. The extra steps, not being able to fix things for existing customers, and having to wait until things are completely fixed are to what I was referring. Additionally, for someone who creates adventures for the marketplace this is a double whammy. Not only do the existing products need to be fixed, but it stops part of development on new products because they have to be set up within the VTT, and the entire VTT has to be working to fully test an adventure. Someone working on art assets can keep working and submitting their products in their external programs.
1555500528
We're closing in on 3 months of issues caused by the AFoW/Animation patch... I've tried to be understanding, but this feels ridiculous. From one week to the next, I have to preface the start of a session "So Roll20 is still broken, bear with me...". It's getting a little upsetting.
1555510358
I don't want to pile on at all. I understand that mistakes happen, and that no product or company is going to be perfect. That said, I am disturbed by a few things (besides the broken functionality itself, of course): The length of time AFoW has been broken. How has this not been fixed? How have you not made it an absolute top priority? AFoW was one of the top draws for Roll20, and was a major reason I chose Roll20 for my 5e campaign. After three months, no end in sight? No transparency about how you're going to solve the problem? The fact that dev clearly rushed these changes through without the proper amount of testing. That's a strong indication that your workflow, quality assurance, and oversight are in dire need of improvement.&nbsp; The fact that Roll20 tried to change the basic functionality of AFoW, in a manner that was not only counter-intuitive, but not requested by the user community, and gave no warning that this was happening. Who on earth thought this would be a good idea? My players and I are only a few months into using Roll20, and to be blunt, this whole AFoW debacle is not making a strong case for us to continue with your platform. We'll keep going for now, since we have invested in the Player's Handbook, the MM, and a couple of published adventures, but three more months go by and AFoW is still where it is now, we'll have to take a hard look at moving off Roll20.
1555511847
Sam T.
KS Backer
Brian C. said: it was not my intention to trivialize what you, I, and countless others are having to do and go through because Roll20 again chose to release a major feature or update when a modicum of testing on our part has shown it was not ready for production. Sorry - I completely understand that you weren't trying to trivialise the issue, I just didn't want anyone to misunderstand and get the impression that this had been anything other that a hugely onerous experience for anyone that had previously relied on these features in their games.&nbsp; I can only imagine how much worse the issue is for marketplace content creators.&nbsp;&nbsp; As a side note, I would be very wary about believing that the way the dev team are claiming that the feature is supposed to work now, will be the way that the feature actually works after all the bugs are ironed out.
1555515719
All I want is someone to address the problem. Where is your PR? This feels like, at best, mismanagment, and at worst, a deliberate attempt to ignore your community.&nbsp; I've posted several times about the issues that have not been addressed.&nbsp; 1. What is the timeline for known bugs affecting features established before the AFoW? 2. What compensation should we expect in remediation for the features we have paid for, but haven't been able to use for 3 months now? 3. What is the priority of the bugs you are fixing? Are you focusing on AFoW or bugs with established features? Get someone on here to handle your PR, because your brand rep is tanking, and the good will of your paying customers diminishes with every day you spend in silence.&nbsp;
1555520412
SᵃᵛᵃǤᵉ
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
I too am interested to hear of any progress updates on this issue.
1555532252
Joe
Pro
I fully agree with Brian C’s post here , in that the natural assumption of myself and my players has always been that AFoW should work based on vision, regardless of distance. If your PC token sees somewhere, you now know what is there, so it clears the fog. &nbsp;The “AFoW Distance” token setting has always seemed confusing to me for that reason. Any restriction on sight distance should be a different topic &amp; functionality in my opinion.
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Edited 1555541523
Joe, hang on - Just to check.... are you requesting/suggesting that if there is some light source (maybe a 20ft light emitting campfire token) that was like 500ft away down the corridor, all tokens, within 'line of sight' of it should be able to see it, regardless of how far away they are, without any possible way to reduce this down? This would mean that if you wanted to give the impression that the area is super foggy, and players can only see 50ft ahead of them, - it would be impossible to do? I kinda assumed that the 'AFOW distance' was what could control this 'view distance'... - To be honest, I'm not sure if that's what you were asking, I get really confused by the difference between Dynamic Lighting, FOW and AFOW.