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Advanced Fog of War Feedback Thread 2.0

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keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
I'm seeing it revealing in a circle. Of course, AFoW reveals by grid squares, so it is a jagged "circle".
I don't think they'll ever be able to reveal in a perfect radius from the token. that would involve fixing the same problem of lag that drawing freehand in the dynamic lighting presents too. I won't pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes in the engine, but it seems to me that vectors are mapped to a grid, (not the grid you can turn on/off) so when deciding what to reveal (or block LoS, if a drawn barrier in DL) it uses a series of straight lines to approximate the barrier. If the barrier actually a straight line, as is the case with revealing squares, then the engine has it easy. If the barrier is a drawn line or part of a circle, then there are hundreds of tiny right angles that are very small, which form the circle.  What I'm trying to say is that there's probably a reason it reveals by squares, and that reason likely has to do with the way the engine propagates known barriers, so they'd have to completely change the engine to make it do something it already has trouble doing elsewhere.
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"They" did change the "engine" which is why the fault of square reveal appeared in the first place.  I am sure there was good reason to update the engine, but a failure to understand the older system seems to have compromised the ability to replace it without massive issues. Therefore it can be fixed, if they but decide to do so... although it might need a new engine to do so.
Brian, Thanks for the advice, unfortunately it doesn't work.  Below is the what I can see with the two left hand grey squares showing what is revealed in AFOW.  Not too worry though it's good enough for what I need right now.
Guys, please ignore my last post!  Worked it out.  I use Torch Api which resets the vision parameters in the token each time.  When I manually reset I now have the jagged circle reveal.  Thanks for your help though, much appreciated.
Hey everyone. Continuing on from last week ,we have another progress update for you. Our weekly code release yesterday included three more bug fixes! Square auras and status icons no longer rotate with the token, auras work properly again when the grid is disabled, and when combined with Dynamic Lighting, Advanced Fog of War is no longer revealing in a square. These were the next step in priorities because of the number of reports and users affected. We’re steadily getting through the list and we’ve got more to come! As always please continue reporting issues in this thread. We want to ensure our fix list contains all known problems and is up to date.  We’ll post another progress update here on May 15!
Bekradan said: Guys, please ignore my last post!  Worked it out.  I use Torch Api which resets the vision parameters in the token each time.  When I manually reset I now have the jagged circle reveal.  Thanks for your help though, much appreciated. Awesome! I'm glad to hear it works now, thanks for checking back in.
1557342326
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Jim W. said: "They" did change the "engine" which is why the fault of square reveal appeared in the first place.  I am sure there was good reason to update the engine, but a failure to understand the older system seems to have compromised the ability to replace it without massive issues. Therefore it can be fixed, if they but decide to do so... although it might need a new engine to do so. Yes and no. Just to clarify, they did change the behavior. It did result in a square reveal, but advanced Fog of War has revealed by grid squares since its introduction. The interim behavior we have been seeing used a large square to determine which grid squares were within the reveal distance, while before and after, it has used a large circle to determine which grid squares were within the reveal distance.
I've been doing some testing  with both AFoW and DL active, have blocky reveals and issue 14 - forgetting revealed areas - applies whether the token has light that can be seen by all or not.  Nothing in View Distance on token.  Turned off DL and the whole map becomes visible... turned it back on and it remains visible. 
Brian C. said: Bunny said: Hey everyone. Continuing on from last week ,we have another progress update for you. Our weekly code release yesterday included three more bug fixes! Square auras and status icons no longer rotate with the token, auras work properly again when the grid is disabled, and when combined with Dynamic Lighting, Advanced Fog of War is no longer revealing in a square. These were the next step in priorities because of the number of reports and users affected. We’re steadily getting through the list and we’ve got more to come! As always please continue reporting issues in this thread. We want to ensure our fix list contains all known problems and is up to date.  We’ll post another progress update here on May 15! Hi Bunny, This bolded item is only true if a token's AFoW view distance is blank/less than the radius of light emitted from the token. It still shows as a square if the AFoW view distance is greater than or equal to the light emitted by the token. Any square within the token's AFoW view distance will have fog of war cleared on it whether or not it is illuminated. Thanks Brian, I'm sending this feedback over to the dev and QA teams so they can try to replicate it.
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Edited 1557473383
Hey folks I have tested a little bit with DL and AFoW and it seems to work "good" for me now. The tokens with light (torch for example) can visit the dungeon and the area is grey afterwards. They also see the light from other light sources (players, npc and torches). The only problem right now is, that if someone walks with a partner who holds a torch the player who is not emitting light himself will not see the grey area afterwards. Only the squares, his token stood on before. I don't want to give them light themselves because they should depend on the torches for exploring. The settings are AFoW on, DL + line of sight + restricted movement on. I did not test the grey area when i turn off enforced line of sight. Well and Ctrl-L or rejoin as player shows me the view of ALL players on the map. Not of the one i joined as or the one i clicked at. I often read that i should open a new window as "view as player" to test it but this seems to give me the same "wrong" information as Ctrl-L. I just wanted to add some experience with the mechanic right now but if you got any thoughts feel free to share. :)
I'm assuming this issue might belong here as well - I started doing my weekly prep - and I was checking some of my setup pages - and notice I no longer have advanced fog of war setup(I don't use normal but do AFoW and DL). So I started experimenting - even on a blank page with no tokens on it - I don't get AFoW - I set it up using page settings(I also turned off Dim Light reveals - just to test - but doesn't change anything): But when I issue a reset fog - the page stays revealed - I switch to player - it's still revealed, I tried it in different browsers(no extension), I even asked my players to check - and for them it also shows fully revealed. Tried with different token settings as well etc... This has been happening for at least the last 2-3 days. That's when I checked. I went through all my already setup pages - and there is no AFoW on any of them. Was looking at the forums and nobody reported this so far. Secondary issue - looking at the console output - there is so much mixed content being loaded... Like even a basic default token will throw out a "Loading mixed (insecure) display content: <a href="http://imgsrv.roll20.net/" rel="nofollow">http://imgsrv.roll20.net/</a>..." - this is just lazy given you control all the servers in this case.
Turning off global illumination fixed it for me. I can still keep the all tokens reveal part just fine. Still that this broke when it worked before is annoying.
I am having an issue with Global Illumination being bugged out as the GM. Normally I would still be able to see the Fog of War as GM, so that I can tell what my players can and can't see, but when I have Global Illumination ticked on I can't see the Fog of War anymore. The entire map looks lit for me. My players still see the game normally, but now I can't tell if parts of the map are being revealed correctly when they explore. It was working a week ago but when I booted my map up tonight it was broken.&nbsp;
Brian C. You are a saint!
Brian C. said: &nbsp;I don't understand what a negative aura should look like Previous to the update, you could set a negative aura which would set a very small (but noticeable) outline to the token. It was a good method to highlight a token without putting a garish red dot underneath it.
1557549422
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
It was also useful for marking invisible tokens with a small dot rather than one that filled the entire grid square.
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Brian C.
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Compendium Curator
Wint said: Brian C. said: &nbsp;I don't understand what a negative aura should look like Previous to the update, you could set a negative aura which would set a very small (but noticeable) outline to the token. It was a good method to highlight a token without putting a garish red dot underneath it. Thanks&nbsp; Wint &nbsp;and&nbsp; keithcurtis &nbsp;for explaining it to me. Why not just use a decimal point in the token aura? Token on the left has a .1 aura. It gives a very thin ring that could be made bigger (.2, .3, etc.). The token on the right is smaller, so it has a .5 aura. This would also work with invisible tokens.
1557589436
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
The reason the example on the right is not optimal is that it requires re-sizing of the token, making it more difficult to target and place. Ultimately it's a very minor issue, and only an issue at all because I got used to the old way.
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Edited 1557590136
Brian C.
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Compendium Curator
keithcurtis said: The reason the example on the right is not optimal is that it requires re-sizing of the token, making it more difficult to target and place. Ultimately it's a very minor issue, and only an issue at all because I got used to the old way. That one is smaller just because I used a token already on the map. It was smaller and not transparent. Sorry for clouding the issue. In the following picture, I have 2 transparent tokens side by side. The one on the left has an aura of "0". Did it look like this previously, or was the aura even smaller when you used a negative number?
Gosh yes it's finally fixed, I can work again !
1557610716
keithcurtis
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Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Brian C. said: keithcurtis said: The reason the example on the right is not optimal is that it requires re-sizing of the token, making it more difficult to target and place. Ultimately it's a very minor issue, and only an issue at all because I got used to the old way. That one is smaller just because I used a token already on the map. It was smaller and not transparent. Sorry for clouding the issue. In the following picture, I have 2 transparent tokens side by side. The one on the left has an aura of "0". Did it look like this previously, or was the aura even smaller when you used a negative number? The aura used to be smaller. An aura of -3 would fill only 2/5 of a 1-grid square token, for instance. I used it quite frequently to denote door controls and map notes without them becoming too intrusive.
I really appreciate all the details here. Is there somewhere a new DM to Roll20 can get a recommended settings given the current state of Roll20? I'd like AFOW and Dynamic Lighting, without worrying about darkvision. I've seen so many variations and issues, it's hard to know what would be ideal today.
Senegorn said: I really appreciate all the details here. Is there somewhere a new DM to Roll20 can get a recommended settings given the current state of Roll20? I'd like AFOW and Dynamic Lighting, without worrying about darkvision. I've seen so many variations and issues, it's hard to know what would be ideal today. Thx Senegorn! -- Along the same lines, can anyone tell me what are the recommended Token Features settings for "Emits Light" and "AFoW" following the recent update, in particular for tokens for PCs that have darkvision?&nbsp; I can't tell if the Help Wiki at&nbsp; Dynamic Lighting Examples / 3.2.1 Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition &nbsp;info is accurate or if there are better settings to use post update?
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Edited 1557701139
Brian C.
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New Issue Emits Light 60/0 causes bright light to extend 2.5 feet beyond the token.
I think half of these issues would be solved by putting a limit on the distance of sight.&nbsp; If something is illuminated by a light source beyond a token's emit light/AfoW view distance it still appears visible.&nbsp; Probably because there is no limit on sight itself in the code.&nbsp; Would be an easy fix
1557696210
keithcurtis
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Brian, thanks for the summary a few posts up. I don't use AFoW, so it's been confusing to keep abreast of the current state. Well and succinctly summarized.
1557701190
Brian C.
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Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
keithcurtis said: Brian, thanks for the summary a few posts up. I don't use AFoW, so it's been confusing to keep abreast of the current state. Well and succinctly summarized. You're welcome. :)
Things are getting better, for that I really appreciate it. One new / old thing I discovered, if as a player, things seem to work fine if the GM has just set us on a new map. but at times during the game we might need to refresh our browser, coming back to the game (ie...F5 OR exit &amp; re-enter game) Everything that is in a tokens Light Radius, is now revealed. Not tokens, but walls, floor decor, and such. AFoW &amp; DL ends up being useless again. Players can just refresh browser, to find were the map leads.... I had a player tell me this during the game a week ago. He was like "I can see the whole map GM". At 1st I wasn't sure, reset fog, all went back to normal, but it took out where they had been...no biggie Was just experimenting with it, now I realized what he had done.....refreshed his browser in game..... I have repeated this both ways, It doesn't always fail, about 50% chance of failure...
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Edited 1557951212
Drespar
Roll20 Team
Hi everyone! In case you missed it, our code release for&nbsp; this week &nbsp;included a few more Advanced Fog of War fixes. For GMs,&nbsp; Ctrl+L &nbsp;now correctly takes away light from tokens that shouldn’t see, and enforced line of sight properly enables sight of the token’s light but not the others. The opacity layers from Dynamic Lighting and Advanced Fog no longer stack, and the Advanced Fog lighting effects are more distinct as a whole which means there is a much clearer line between light, dim light, and no light. We also made a few minor adjustments, such as rewording “View Distance” beneath the Advanced Fog of War setting on a token to “Reveal Distance” to make the usage clearer.&nbsp; With these items fixed, we’re able to move on to the next set of priorities. We also updated our Known Issues list and condensed several reports which had the same underlying cause. You can read about the changes in more detail below! As we continue watching this thread, we also need to remind everyone that only accounts with the “Roll20 Team” icon can speak on behalf of Roll20. We appreciate that users want to help each other, but this has led to inaccurate information being spread - and that doesn’t help anyone! Please refrain from speculation about how Roll20 code works/could be changed as this leads to confusion around official sources, which violates our&nbsp; Code of Conduct . Please continue to report any issues or bugs here so we can continue to monitor and assess, and re-prioritize if necessary. Thank you all, our next progress update like this will be on May 22.&nbsp; Below the line is a more detailed summary of changes you will see in the known issues list, much of this is to clarify merges, moves, or removals. You can see the updated list here . Previously&nbsp; Known Issues 1 ,&nbsp; 3 , and&nbsp; 18 &nbsp;were split up. We have confirmed them to be resultant of a singular issue and as such we will be merging them into&nbsp; known issue 1 . Known issue 2 &nbsp;has been removed (lopsided revelation on hex grids). Currently, this behavior is how advanced fog of war functions. Support for hex grids is something we would like to add in the future classifying this as a feature request more than a bug. The desire has been noted in our ticketing but will be considered outside the scope of this thread. Known Issue 4 &nbsp;(tokens reveal map beyond normal vision) is being merged with&nbsp; Known Issue 8 &nbsp;(entire map being revealed to players on load in). These are now being classified under&nbsp; Known Issue 2 . Known Issue 5 &nbsp;(Ctrl + L not functioning properly) and&nbsp; Known Issue 6 &nbsp;(Auras don’t display if they have a negative value, don’t scale, and disappear if token is moved off VTT) have been fixed and moved to resolved issues list. Known Issue 7 &nbsp;(moving multiple objects creates a ping) has been moved to&nbsp; Known Issue 3 . Known Issue 9 &nbsp;(Auras and Status Icons rotating) has been fixed and moved to the resolved issues list. Known Issue 10 &nbsp;(Overlapping FoW hidden areas results in overlapped overlays) is now&nbsp; Known Issue 4. This has also been reworded for better clarity. Known Issue 11 &nbsp;(tokens visible on maps with transparent backgrounds) is now&nbsp; known issue 5 Known Issue 12 &nbsp;(when up to 2 in grid size, AFoW reveals full blocks) has been removed. This behavior references changing the grid scale for a map that may exceed the grid scale for a given map resulting in revelation beyond the bounds of dynamic lighting. This is intended and expected behavior and not a bug. For more information on how why this occurs see our&nbsp; wiki -- requests to change this behavior are considered feature requests and are outside the scope of this thread. Known Issue 13 &nbsp;(square reveal),&nbsp; 14 &nbsp;(non PC controlled light sources do not contribute to AFoW revelation), and&nbsp; 15 &nbsp;(Tokens require a character sheet to be assigned) have been moved to the resolved issues list. A note regarding&nbsp; Known Issue 14 -- This behavior is due to technical limitations on what can be processed for a singular token that have been present since the creation of AFoW. We understand the desire for this feature to more closely align with expectations and it is documented in our ticketing system. However, this is not a bug and will be considered a feature request and thus outside the scope of this thread. Known Issue 16 &nbsp;(dynamic lighting distance multiplies for all tokens controlled by a player when multiplier is set on one token) has been removed. This is not a bug but an accommodation for game systems that improve the perception of emitted light (i.e. the character effectively sees light emitted at 30 ft by a torch as being emitted at 60 ft due to more sensitive eyes).
1557960214
Brian C.
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Drespar said: *snip* A note regarding&nbsp; Known Issue 14 -- This behavior is due to technical limitations on what can be processed for a singular token that have been present since the creation of AFoW . We understand the desire for this feature to more closely align with expectations and it is documented in our ticketing system. However, this is not a bug and will be considered a feature request and thus outside the scope of this thread. *snip* Hi Drespar, I really do not think the italicized part of the statement is correct. Prior to the Jan 29 rewrite, I used AFoW and DL extensively in my testing of products going on the marketplace, both with darkvision and with vision that required external lights. Sometimes I also used AFoW in promotional images for the products, such as in the following two examples from products released last year. These two examples used slightly different settings, but both achieved the effect of clearing fog of war using light sources not controlled by the player. In the following promo image from this product, I set up one of my overland maps.&nbsp; <a href="https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/gameaddon/461/wotbs-shelter-from-the-storm" rel="nofollow">https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/gameaddon/461/wotbs-shelter-from-the-storm</a> &nbsp;This product was released September 2018. In this case, the tokens are actually in the product, so I was able to load a clean game and add the addon. Here are the tokens, the player-controlled token is selected in the bottom-left corner. The token with the character art is the light source but is not controllable by the players. It is meant for the GM to move the light token around the map as the heroes travel, revealing the map as they go. Here are the token ownership settings. The player token is on the left, and the light token is on the right. And the vision settings. Again, the player token is on the left, and the light token is on the right. The only thing interesting here is that the light source also had "Has Sight" checked even though it is not attached to a player. And the page settings. Of course, the view distance (now reveal distance) on the player token has a vastly different behavior now when combined with dynamic lighting. Now the entire map is revealed, breaking the feature I had added to several of my products. The following promo image from the linked adventure has a more traditional dungeon setup.&nbsp; <a href="https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/gameaddon/481/mdt-5e-level-1-adventures" rel="nofollow">https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/gameaddon/481/mdt-5e-level-1-adventures</a> &nbsp;This product was released October 2018. In this promo image, the currently selected player token had started in the entrance foyer off screen to the left, traveled past the statue, and is now parked in front of the alcolytes. AFoW has revealed the full extent of the room with the statue. This token is not part of the product and was added at the time just for taking the promo image. I happened to still have the game that I used to generate the promo images lying around and set up how I took the screen shot, untouched for a half year. Here is the DL layer. Each sconce has a 40/20 (torch) light on it. The statue also has a torch light that is currently selected. Here are the tokens' ownership settings. Left is the light source. Right is the player token. And the vision settings. Left is the light source. Right is the player token. And here is a screen shot taken from today with nothing moved. All I did 7 months ago was set up the player token, take it down the hall, and take a picture. Looking at it now, I am surprised it did not have the view distance set on the player token and still worked. I had thought the token's view distance was required, but it appears that was not how this shot was set up. While it is possible that I had different settings on the token as I sent it down the hall, it makes little sense for me to clear them out before taking the promo screenshot, as the light generated by the torches would overwhelm what I would have been on the token. Because the player token here was not part of the product, I am unable to load the product into a clean game to verify the token settings were always that way. Fog of war cleared by external light sources was a feature I used in both my personal game as well as my products. I consciously added it in. I wish I had taken some videos back then, but I did not know I would need to prove it worked.
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Edited 1557961321
Brian C.
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Hi Drespar, Has there been an update to the issue where large maps with global illumination and AFoW lock up? It really looks like those issues started popping up after this: March 29: Fixed an issue where Tokens with sight did not have infinite-ranged AFoW vision when Global Illumination is on It doesn't seem like it was in the known issues, and I was wondering if there was an official word on it.
I don't know, here I see all the fixes that have been made... Yet when I go to any somewhat large map (one that used to work perfectly), moving any token with sight lags so much that it becomes unplayable. Is there a performance patch planned?
Started to happen since the animation update, got it bit better at some point (from 5 second lag to ~3). No global illumination on. Is global illumination with fog of war bad right now?
I also have this issue when my players log in, except not in a square Here's the dynamic lighting that should have stopped it.... Here is my sad face realising that this thing still ain't right.... Benito F. said: I'm not sure what triggers this and I'm unsure if its advance fog of war, or where I should post this. So, the problem is that sometimes when my players join a game is that they can see everything within the 40ft stated regardless of any line drawn within the dynamic lighting tab. I know this is a bug because we will finish a session in a dungeon with everything working and then when they rejoin next week (I have not changed any settings and they are exactly where they started) it will have revealed everything in a perfect square around the character. This only ever happens when loading a new map or loading in for the first time.&nbsp;