[SW FFG] Official Character Sheet Thread

Okay, further notes and I think I found the cause of the hiccup with the Critical Injury display. For some reason whenever a roll is done now there is an output to the API console window that says; "flags.combatSuggesting=true" "generalSuggestions=1" "input=1" "flags.generalSuggesting=true" Whenever this happens it causes a "pause" before displaying. It is likely there is a break/pause/hiccup in the code that is forcing it to display when it shouldn't and thus slowing down the actually rolls themselves.

Tim P. said: Critical Injuries issue was caused by the if(!Array.prototype.includes){} code at the top of the js file. Not sure why that has been added, but removing it fixes the Crit rolls. Wow, I didn't know that would be the culprit. Makes sense why I was having trouble finding it. I added it to assist with seeing if an array contained a certain value. I guess roll20 really doesn't like stuff like that. Good to know.

Yeah poly fills are good but they can be unpredictable at times. Especially in a system where we don't know what other js is being run by the system. I ended up replacing the includes call with an indexOf call and it achieved the same result. Rhino, those logs are coming from the suggestion engine.I'm not sure if they are causing the pause in the rolls or a symptom of the same problem. The issue is definitely in the suggestion engine somewhere. It might just be that looking up the suggestion text itself is what's causing the pause, I need to do some further testing to find out.

I've restructured the Critical Roll Template messages to indicate which type of Critical (starship, character etc) you've rolled. Committed to the repSect branch on Github.

Is Array.prototype.indexOf() already defined by the standard? I'd love to see how you changed it. I moved the function to the suggestion engine to fix it there for a friend's game. Yeah I agree that the Suggestion Engine is bloated and not in a polished state at all. I wasn't quite sure how I should best do the Suggestions JSON and I tried to iterate it as little as possible but it's quite probable that there are iterations transversing it that I am not aware of.

IndexOf is a standard Javascript function. It can be used pretty much everywhere.

Awesome, that sounds like it would be a much better implementation then what I have. When in doubt don't reinvent it.

Aside from the pausing issue, the main issue with the SuggestionEngine comes with you select the None option in the GM sheet. For some reason when you select this option the API fires an error when you click on a skill check. Combat checks seem to work fine but the skill checks fail for some reason. I believe the problem might lie in the this.setDisplayOption function. The flags variable appears to be missing. I need to do some more digging to trace it through properly. Has anybody else tested the new Criticals code on a fresh game ? I'd be keen to see if the bugs Rhino reported earlier have been resolved.

sorry i havent tested anything let... my kids went back to school and i been busting my a-- to get things going with them.. may take me a few more days before i can test anything

Fixed the bug in the suggestions engine which was causing the script to crash when rolling a skill check. Combat skill suggestions don't appear to be working at present so that's going to be the next thing to tackle.

Okay so I performed the same tests as last time, and it works great. Only one hiccup happened. When I created a character and ran the first rolls, it was fine with the criticals but it had a problem with the skills. It is default set to "no option set" so someone not knowing where to set this would be lost. I suggest; Either, having the error message mention where to change the settings Set the setting to default on, and make it obvious where to turn it off. Edit: I did notice you changed all the Critical messages so it is clear what is getting the injury/hit, awesome job.

I have been running 6.3.0 b6 some today. The only issue I've run into so far is that all of my characters are showing multiple blank critical slots: Pressing "heal" does not remove the slot. However, when I roll for a critical the critical is added to the slots in order, top to bottom. Pressing "heal" removes all the data on the critical, but not the slot.

That's weird Matt. Was this a brand new game or an existing one ?

Existing one. Has been around for a while. Affects all types of characters. New, a little old, and I even imported some very old ones. Update: Created completely new game - problem did not replicate, even when I imported characters that exhibited this issue in other game. Second Update: Went back and deleted all js, html, and css from original game. Re-pasted 6.0.3 b6 in each. Problem resolved. I think this may have been some kind-of outlier type situation. Perhaps the code was altered accidentally when I originally pasted it in place. I suggest this issue be ignored unless someone else replicates it.

Sounds like maybe a glitch. I'm guessing those characters didn't have a bunch of previously existing critical injuries right ? One thing I will have to do to make this a non-destructive update is an initialise script which will take existing critical injuries on characters and convert them to the new style. The new method uses different attributes to the old version and will need to be updated.

Guys, great work but I think I may have run into a bug as well. Unless this is intentional... Whenever I have the GM -dicepool filled with dice I used to make a roll (or am about to make a roll) I have noticed that when I make a roll for a player from their sheet it pulls the dice from MY -dicepool as well as the dice they would be granted for any given roll. Maybe this is a symptom of the fact that I couldn't find where I was supposed to place the sheet-js.js code. The CSS and the StyleSheet seemed pretty explanatory but what about the "translation" tab on the custom sheet? Maybe I am just a bit touched in the head but I do not think I have the sheet installed correctly which might be my issue. I didn't see instructions on how to do that, just a line that says but the code where it belongs.

Kyle said: Guys, great work but I think I may have run into a bug as well. Unless this is intentional... Whenever I have the GM -dicepool filled with dice I used to make a roll (or am about to make a roll) I have noticed that when I make a roll for a player from their sheet it pulls the dice from MY -dicepool as well as the dice they would be granted for any given roll. Maybe this is a symptom of the fact that I couldn't find where I was supposed to place the sheet-js.js code. The CSS and the StyleSheet seemed pretty explanatory but what about the "translation" tab on the custom sheet? Maybe I am just a bit touched in the head but I do not think I have the sheet installed correctly which might be my issue. I didn't see instructions on how to do that, just a line that says but the code where it belongs. This is not only discussed in the wiki, but it is part of every single roll in the html. There are 2 reasons for it; 1, a weird idea by the original author, 2, nobody bothered to change it. Is there a benefit? not really, does it help any mechanic? no, is it required as part of the system? not really. Really I have no way to justify this code and it should be removed from the GM sheet and from all rolls. It gains literally nothing but issues.

Its intentional and it is so the GM can add modifier dice to a players skill check, and I actually use it all the time. When I'm GMing I'll usually tell my players to just roll their skill, and I add the difficulty and environmental modifier dice myself. They can add any boosts from talents etc they want in their dice pool. Probably not the way it should be played but it does work. You just have to make sure the GM clears his dice pool before each player roll. I'm happy to remove the GM dice from player rolls if that's what people want but I won't be removing the entire dice pool itself from the GM sheet as there are times that is needed.

GM Knowledge Rhino said: Kyle said: Guys, great work but I think I may have run into a bug as well. Unless this is intentional... Whenever I have the GM -dicepool filled with dice I used to make a roll (or am about to make a roll) I have noticed that when I make a roll for a player from their sheet it pulls the dice from MY -dicepool as well as the dice they would be granted for any given roll. Maybe this is a symptom of the fact that I couldn't find where I was supposed to place the sheet-js.js code. The CSS and the StyleSheet seemed pretty explanatory but what about the "translation" tab on the custom sheet? Maybe I am just a bit touched in the head but I do not think I have the sheet installed correctly which might be my issue. I didn't see instructions on how to do that, just a line that says but the code where it belongs. This is not only discussed in the wiki, but it is part of every single roll in the html. There are 2 reasons for it; 1, a weird idea by the original author, 2, nobody bothered to change it. Is there a benefit? not really, does it help any mechanic? no, is it required as part of the system? not really. Really I have no way to justify this code and it should be removed from the GM sheet and from all rolls. It gains literally nothing but issues. Thanks for the quick reply! Maybe I am just daft but I really did not see that in the wiki anywhere. Either way, if it's something that we have to work around do you have any suggestions? Just telling players not to roll until I clear my sheet? But I do see what you mean when you say it is everywhere in the HTML. It does it for any dice pool used, it would seem.

The design concept was that it allowed a GM to set the "bad" dice instead of the player, so the player only has to roll the appropriate skill. But it is confusing. I just ignore it and leave the GM dice pool empty throughout the entire game. Whenever I need to make rolls, say, for an NPC, I roll off of that NPC's sheet instead, using the dice pool for the individual sheet.

Kyle you're right the wiki documentation needs updating. At one point it explained how to add a testing version to a game but it appears to have been removed for some reason. Essentially: The JS file goes in Settings > API Settings. Add a new script, call it anything you like, and paste the JS code into the window. In Settings > Game Settings - Select Custom as your Character Sheet The HTML goes into the HTML Layout tab, and the CSS goes into the Css Styling Tab. You can ignore the Translation Tab. If you were getting rolls to work I'd say you already have it set up correctly. The sheet wont do anything at all if its not set up correctly.

Tim P. said: I won't be removing the entire dice pool itself from the GM sheet as there are times that is needed. More appropriately "some people do use it". I think if you polled every GM/game you would come to 90% or higher not using it. The rare outlier causing problems for newbies, is not worth it. The fact it is added into every Player roll has caused more than a few "bug fix" reports over the years and it is literally the biggest issue that has to be handled every few months on this project. I think it would take less effort to solve it once and for all and remove it, than to leave it and continue to have the seasonal issue. I am not sure using a dummy NPC character sheet, couldn't solve everything everyone else uses it for. It isn't like you hide any roll in this game (nor should you) so I think the original idea was born out of confusion about how the GM works in this system.

Like I said, I'm happy to remove the GM dice from the skill rolls. But I see no point in removing the GM Dice pool completely. If it's no longer contributing to the players pools, the issue causing all the bug reports is resolved, and GMs still have the option of their own dice pool without needing to create a dummy character sheet just to perform GM dice rolls.

Tim P. said: Like I said, I'm happy to remove the GM dice from the skill rolls. But I see no point in removing the GM Dice pool completely. If it's no longer contributing to the players pools, the issue causing all the bug reports is resolved, and GMs still have the option of their own dice pool without needing to create a dummy character sheet just to perform GM dice rolls. From a code standpoint there is next to zero gain removing it (only 45 lines of code), yes, though I think it might benefit from being auto minimized, rather than requiring it to be manually done.

When I was running my game I would waffle back and forth between having the players set the "bad" die and having myself set the "bad" die on the GM pool. The benefit to having the GM dice pool linked to the other pools is that it allows for different play styles but it does add a lot confusion until you get used to how it is. I vote cut the link.

Tim P. said: Like I said, I'm happy to remove the GM dice from the skill rolls. But I see no point in removing the GM Dice pool completely. If it's no longer contributing to the players pools, the issue causing all the bug reports is resolved, and GMs still have the option of their own dice pool without needing to create a dummy character sheet just to perform GM dice rolls. Tim, I think GM Knowledge Rhino as well as GM Matt make some good points. But conversely, I also see where you are coming from as well. Granted, I have only been playing SW:FFG for the last 3 months but here is what I see: 1. If the GM can "set" the difficulty for each roll it does add an interesting mechanic to the game. From a RP perspective, I can basically say "You are not going to know how difficult this is until you try it" which can prevent number crunching metagaming as the players attempt to run the math on how likely any attempt to be successful will be. 2. If the GM has to set every roll however, it does add a level of micro management that forces the GM to constantly update the sheets for each roll and depending on what the players are doing, there could be several rolls going on at the same time, especially if people are making behind the scenes GM rolls. That stops the flow of the game as I then have to update my sheet to account for a Whisper GM roll while hoping that another player does not make the roll I just asked him for before I get the chance to change it back, or I tell him to wait which could bog down the game. In a perfect world, having both options - Allowing the GM to force add difficulty to checks and allowing them to turn it off would be nice. However in the real world (I haven't looked over your code) it's probable that this would cause more issues than intended. I would vote to remove it. OR if you know which lines of code we need to search for, we could possibly remove it ourselves (though you know some people like myself would probably mess it up and break it then have dozens of questions) if you don't want to remove it from the sheet. I did notice this happens on the players sheet dice pool as well. Granted, this is my personal opinion, but that needs to go. If I have them roll a "intelligence" check so they don't do something dumb that the character would know but then forget to remove or clear their dice, it gets added to their next rolls. Last but not least: Suggestions! It's a super amazing idea. I don't care that it takes up more screen space, it keeps the players from having to constantly reference other material. However, I noticed on the character sheet that I tested, it does not make suggestions for the combat skills. Now I know they tend to have FAR more options so if this is intentional to not blow up the sheet, then I understand. Edit: On second thought, do not remove it from the player sheet. That's easier than typing in the modifiers.

The "combat" skill suggestions are harder to make sense. Say you are attacking with a Ranged (Light) weapon. That could be anything from a throwing knife, to a grenade, to a 1 handled blaster. Suggesting anything other than the same answer for all combat checks, seems like it would not benefit a situation. What might be better, if there was a way to have a command sent to the API that can post (or create a handout) with suggestions for various ways to spend on a combat check, that way it isn't limited by the chat window, and can offer a more diverse set of answers. The issue with this idea is, as a GM I can just find a handout that has the suggestions for this, and give it to my Players. So at that point coding it in is silly and wasteful. Realistically if average Players understood how to use the modifiers sections of skills, the whole dice section could go away, but the dice area is more noobie friendly and nobody wants a sheet with a learning curve like the 13th age one that requires people to understand complex macros in order to play.

GM Knowledge Rhino said: The "combat" skill suggestions are harder to make sense. Say you are attacking with a Ranged (Light) weapon. That could be anything from a throwing knife, to a grenade, to a 1 handled blaster. Suggesting anything other than the same answer for all combat checks, seems like it would not benefit a situation. What might be better, if there was a way to have a command sent to the API that can post (or create a handout) with suggestions for various ways to spend on a combat check, that way it isn't limited by the chat window, and can offer a more diverse set of answers. The issue with this idea is, as a GM I can just find a handout that has the suggestions for this, and give it to my Players. So at that point coding it in is silly and wasteful. Realistically if average Players understood how to use the modifiers sections of skills, the whole dice section could go away, but the dice area is more noobie friendly and nobody wants a sheet with a learning curve like the 13th age one that requires people to understand complex macros in order to play. Good points.

There is a list of ways to spend Advantage, Triumph etc in Combat provided on the back of the Game Masters screen. I've actually included this in my games as a handout. They are kept fairly generic. eg: Negate targets defensive bonuses Ignore environmental penalties until the end of next turn. Knock the weapon from the targets hand. Do something vital like shoot the controls to the blast doors. Perhaps a set of combat suggestions would just be generic for all Combat skills and it would be up to the players and GM to determine the actual effects.

Tim P. said: There is a list of ways to spend Advantage, Triumph etc in Combat provided on the back of the Game Masters screen. I've actually included this in my games as a handout. They are kept fairly generic. eg: Negate targets defensive bonuses Ignore environmental penalties until the end of next turn. Knock the weapon from the targets hand. Do something vital like shoot the controls to the blast doors. Perhaps a set of combat suggestions would just be generic for all Combat skills and it would be up to the players and GM to determine the actual effects. That would be a pretty long list of "generic" combat suggestions no? I found a few sheets that I could print, but I'm hoping to find one that does not require 9 pages and a reference point.

The list isn't that long. Maybe a single page worth. The information I'm talking about is on page 206 and 207 of the EOTE core rulebook. 

Right, but if it was splashed each attack during combat, with 3-5 (or more) Players, you now get a text flood. If on the other hand maybe it was just another tab, that had the info handy, maybe in a table, that didn't post to the chat, I can see that being useful. But at the point you are doing rule pointers, you might as well just have the API do that and auto create a handout.

I was thinking about having the suggestion data stored in the API, and then pull it into the character sheets and put into the hover popup boxes like the old version of the sheet. That will keep the suggestions out of the way but still have them easily accessible and should cut back the code considerably. I still need to work out how that can be accomplished. A handout would be the second option.

I've been counting lines of code and compiled a summary of the bloat. I counted each sheet and also the larger sections of code from each: Sheet-tab-character-sheet - 2925 Sheet-tab-ship-sheet - 1686 Sheet-tab-base-sheet - 523 Sheet-tab-companion-sheet - 3859 Sheet-tab-npc-sheet - 970 Sheet-tab-gm-dice - 1139 Career/Specialisation lists - 170 x 2 = 340 Species Lists - 70 x 2 Character Skills List - 1227 Player character Sheet Skills Suggestions - 543 Companion Skills List - 2539 Companion Character Sheet skills suggestions - 1823 GM Group Tab - 520 Roll Templates - 170 Removing the suggestions code from the character sheet will save over 2300 lines, provided we have a reliable way of displaying that information elsewhere.  I wasn't around for the addition of the Companions tab. Is there any particular reason why this was added as a part of the player character sheet ? Couldn't companions just be another character that the GM/Player controls ?

The goal is that the Players have 1 sheet they have to manage. They should not be required to have 15000 sheets just to play, all the info in one place was the goal of the companion sheet. That was the same reason for the 3 vehicle types as well.

We're talking one extra sheet per companion. To me it makes no sense to add 300kb (nearly half the total sheet size) to everybody's sheet for the ~1% occurrence that someone wants to use a Companion, when they could just create a second character sheet. Just my 2cents. If people are using it then I'll leave it in.

So, the Companion Skills suggestions should never have been there, that was something Samuel added. That saves 1823 lines according to your numbers. But remember before you remove features, fix current features. Realistically no features should be removed at all, just everything should be optimized. From a coding aspect the problem isn't the there are a lot of sheets, the problem is that it has a lot of sheets that are coded improperly. The reason for this is, while I know what I wanted to do, I did not (and do not) have the technical know how to perform it. What needs to be done, is rather than repeating code ANYWHERE, it should use a "call" to a function or set of code that is able to be displayed independently multiple places. As it stands, some of what was done was because there SHOULD be a companion sheet, that has things aimed at a companion, but until they give us the ability to do 3-5 or 10 sheets, we have to work within the constraints that Roll20 gave us. If you absolutely have to get rid of a sheet, get rid of the NPC sheet, it is 90% superfluous and redundant. The whole functionality can be done on the main companion sheet listing a radio button list with 3 options and a text box. Instead Samuel made a whole new sub sheet for it. So 20 lines became over 900. Get rid of the Companion suggestion stuff, get rid of the npc sheet, and bam you save 2500+ lines and you can leave the companion sheet alone.

I played a live game tonight with a fairly recent version of the code. I asked the players what they thought about the suggestions and they seemed to really appreciate them, though my veteran RPGers warn that players should be wary about getting into a mindset where they are "limited" by the suggestions. Overall, though, a big thumbs-up from my players for the suggestions engine. None of my players are using the companion sheet. One of them even owns a droid, but it is controlled under a separate sheet that I share with her. I do agree, however, that if anyone is using it, then it should stay in. I think those who are dependent on it would be disappointed to lose its functionality. (Can the companion sheet work with a separate token? I can't see why it wouldn't, but I've never tested it) I'm a big fan of the NPC sheet. It provides me with a nice, compressed location where all of the relevant data - particularly attacks - can be quickly rolled while I am in-game. Not having to navigate around tabs in a full character sheet to make sure I am addressing talents and abilities, etc. The minion count stuff that automatically creates the correct dice pool is also very useful.

Matt: Does the NPC minions stuff work okay for you ? I've been fiddling with it and it doesn't appear to be calculating the Dice Pool Upgrades properly. You can create a second token for a Companion. You would just drag the token onto the tabletop, assign it to the main character, and then assign any bars to the companion_<attr> attributes.  A bit of fancy scripting and you could also make the companion tag along behind the player character if you wanted :)

GM Matt said: None of my players are using the companion sheet. One of them even owns a droid, but it is controlled under a separate sheet that I share with her. I do agree, however, that if anyone is using it, then it should stay in. I think those who are dependent on it would be disappointed to lose its functionality. (Can the companion sheet work with a separate token? I can't see why it wouldn't, but I've never tested it) I'm a big fan of the NPC sheet. It provides me with a nice, compressed location where all of the relevant data - particularly attacks - can be quickly rolled while I am in-game. Not having to navigate around tabs in a full character sheet to make sure I am addressing talents and abilities, etc. The minion count stuff that automatically creates the correct dice pool is also very useful. I use it, and multiple groups I have run use it, which is the whole reason I put the section in there. Using a separate sheet for the companion makes it look like it is its own character, rather than "companion of... so and so" which is less fun. If it is just an NPC that is separate that is an "ally" not a companion. It sounds like you are using the NPC sheet how I intended the Companion sheet to be used. This still seems 90% redundant, as it literally is just a "shrunk character sheet" which is exactly what the companion sheet is. It would be more beneficial to make a version of the companion sheet that could be adaptable based on NPC/companion type to show/hide settings than to add a fully separate extra tab. I was working on and idea to do this, and Samuel stated he was going to see what could be done about it before he left. Regardless, removing the NPC Sheet is technically not "removing functionality". Functionality that exists in 4.0.4.6 shouldn't be removed. Anything else technically hasn't been officially introduced and can be removed without hurting anyone but beta testers. The goal is not to hurt long term players, Beta testers accept the risk of gaining and losing features, the other players do not. Since this thread was opened, less than 20 people have posted to it. If I remember the quarterly report there are 2500+ SWRPG Players. Out of that how many are FFG SWRPG? no idea, but I can guarantee it is more than 20. Before a single feature is removed that is currently in 4.0.4.6 keep that thought in mind. Realistically every issue would be solved if we could have multiple sheet types, but as I stated within the "allowed by Roll20" this is what is available.

GM Knowledge Rhino said: It would be more beneficial to make a version of the companion sheet that could be adaptable based on NPC/companion type to show/hide settings than to add a fully separate extra tab. My biggest issues are UI/function, not efficiency. I am not noticing dramatic slow-downs in my games. I need to quickly get to that attack or skill roll (or reference abilities or talents that could be in play) in-game so my players don't have to wait on me to scroll and tab my way around a character sheet. The "companion" sheet is a little quicker for those purposes than a full-out PC sheet, but not as good as the existing NPC sheet. My ideal solution to this would be a "view" of a character's data that reduces it all down to something that looks like an FFG stat block and takes up no more than one screen - but I'm sure that would be a major undertaking. Having said all of that, if we really are sacrificing significant efficiency by adding an NPC sheet, then KR's idea seems like a workable compromise, especially if minion functionality can be transferred over to the companion sheet.

Removed the suggestions code from the Character Sheet as its now being handled by the Suggestion Engine. Committed the change to the repSect branch: <a href="https://github.com/khendar/Roll20_StarWars/tree/re" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/khendar/Roll20_StarWars/tree/re</a>... Demo game set up here: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/1149646/cbbZZQ" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/1149646/cbbZZQ</a> Character sheet file is now down to 695kb - 9005 LOC. At this stage both the Companion sheet and the NPC sheet are staying. It seems that there are people using both and the minion functionality on the NPC sheet is useful to leave in place. I'm going to do another round of testing on this sheet, do some tidying up of the API script and then commit it to the roll20 repo and submit a pull request.

When I added the NPC sheet, it was first added as a means to make creating and using NPCs simplier. There were snippets of code in the companion sheet to eventually handle companion / npc functionality on one "page" but at the time I did not understand Sheet JS and Rhino had mentioned that he didn't either and couldn't get what he wanted to do with it to work. I do think it is possible to slam the NPC and companion sheet together into one section. In order to do so though it would require use of the Sheet JS due to the limited nature of being able to hide / show things with strict CSS. More support of Sheet JS would allow greater functionality by hiding more information unless specifically asked for, an example is the official 5e weapon sections. These are just my two cents but awesome job guys with the work you guys have done.

Finally had a chance to work with the latest build today. Created a character, tried multiple skill checks, did a quick personal combat set piece, and then tried a few starship attacks. No problems. Everything seemed to be functioning correctly.

Alrighty. This evening I'm going to spend a little time updating the docco on the sheets and doing a couple of final checks and I'll submit the pull request tonight.

Code committed and Pull Request submitted. Now we wait :)

Hey, sorry if this is the wrong place but I had a question and possibly a suggestion.&nbsp; In EotE, the Smuggler signature abilities has a bit where you can switch a die to an adjacent face. Is there any way to make this work in the system as it is? If not, could it be implemented easily that you could get a tool tip of adjacent faces when hovering over an individual die? Rethinking the symbols isn't a huge slowdown for an ability that won't be used constantly, so something like that should be more than adequate. Thank you for your time.

This is the right place to make suggestions. What you're talking about currently is not possible in the character sheet. It is certainly possible to develop, how much work it will take depends on how the original dice matrices were set up. I'll add it to the list and do a little bit of digging to see what can be done.

Something broke for me today. Sadly I have no idea what. I'll have to troubleshoot tomorrow to be more specific, but for now. Criticals no longer work, but everything worked fine a week ago. Can't seem to go back to any kind of legacy API version either.&nbsp; "Error: No attribute or sheet field found for character_id -JvjlnWARZR41JMJw9gg named critOn6"

Looks like they've updated the Character Sheet without updating the API script to go with it. I'm email them now to see if they can resolve it.&nbsp;