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[SW FFG] Official Character Sheet Thread

1468812487

Edited 1468894296
Issue resolved.
As a newer user to Roll20 as a whole this sheet is amazing, absolutely amazing.  I keep getting more impressed as I dive into learning it. I've just run into one question that I haven't been able to figure out.  Is it possible to roll at all in secret or in whispers like you can with the /roll command for standard dice?  Now matter how I try to craft the command using !eed I'm usually met with - SyntaxError: Expected "(", ".", "[", "abs(", "ceil(", "d", "floor(", "round(", "t", "{", [ |\t], [+|\-] or [0-9] but "!" found.
GM Knowledge Rhino said: No, it is not possible. The method the !eed command uses, forces output to the chat window, so regardless of how you send the command it outputs the same way always. Samuel was looking into adding this as a future project, though he is no longer working on the project. For me, it always seemed more "house rule" territory so I always listed it as "if I get to it, I get to it, if I don't... oh well". Good to know, thanks for the quick reply.  Will be simple enough to just have a dice roller up in another window or something then or even just actaully roll dice at my desk.
Samuel T. said: pg sheets? Do you mean the player character sheets? Excepting in a few cases the lastest sheets will pull from the existing attributes without any issue. Yes, I meant pc sheets. Great to know, thanks!
Ooo, hey. New management. I didn't know any of this happened. Are these sheets going to become official at some point so they're on the list when creating new games, or do we need to manually load this with code from git? I haven't messed with doing a custom sheet yet, so I'm curious what my route it here. The last official version for the API has some superfluous information and I also prefer the old look of the sheets, with the solid blue header bar, which this seems to go back to.
Cool. Sounds good. I'm going to load the new versions on a small game that shouldn't see many sheets open and see how it goes. If I have to I'll revert back.
1470142483
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
I know what the problem is with the extra "}" in the roll templates. eote.process.diceOutput (line 2394) takes the diceObj.vars.label and sets the title attribute to it, wrapping it in {{...}} chatGlobal = "/direct &{template:base} {{title=" + diceObj.vars.label + "}} {{subtitle=" + characterPlayer + "}}"; However the eote.process.label function is adding }} to the label before it gets to the diceOutput function which is causing two extra }} to be sent through the title attribute, into the rolltemplate and appearing in the chat (see bold below).  /direct &{template:base} {{title=Astrogation}} }} {{subtitle=Aji Jouwutro}}" /direct &{template:base} {{title=Blaster}}{{Damage=6}}{{Critical=5}}{{Range=Engaged}}{{Qualities=Pierce}} }} {{subtitle=Aji Jouwutro}}" The quickest (and dirtiest) solution will be to remove those two }} on line 2394. Since we're adding them anyway in process.label they're not really needed. I think preferably it should be updated to handle the title and other attributes properly, wrapping them individually in {{..}} as needed.
1470143973
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
I have a solution for the above issue. I can set up a fiddle for you to verify the fix if you want. What is the official latest dev version of the API at this point ?
Okay, since apparently the sheet has changed hands yet again, I want to just put out my take on a few things considering the sheet. This isn't a "Do it my way, dammit!" post or anything, just my ideal. Maybe others will agree, but it's obviously ultimately up to whomever is doing the coding. Visual Style: I like the current one. The original style the API sheet had. The newer, smaller tabs are cool with me! It may not be as cohesive design-wise (the red just strikes me as odd), but it's simple and functional. Fewer arbitrary fields: I feel like fields such as rarity and value aren't particularly useful. Book & Page is okay, I suppose, but if the idea is to put all the relevant info onto the sheet, I wonder why it's there. It's just more fields to clutter the page and daunting players looking at a blank sheet. Restricted is nice so at a glance I can look at a sheet and see if the equipment is something a security team might confiscate from one of my players. Features and Qualities can probably be combined as well. I'm not sure how much more memory intensive it is the more fields are on the sheet or anything, but I am even more staunch about this one if it would reduce any oft that kind of thing. Ability to display attachment info with the roll: A checkbox or something on the different attachment lines to add the bonuses an attachment adds to a field on the roll. Not necessary, but I did once have a character that kept changing the attachments on his weapon to fit the mission they were on. Would just make it easier than re-writing the Quality/Features text every time. Again, this wouldn't be high priority. I'm not even sure about this one because you could also just make a macro to add to the modifiers field for each attachment in a case like that. Other than those small gripes and views the sheet is pretty awesome. Obviously the trailing } could use fixing and the critical injuries working again, but I have to thank everyone who has worked to keep the sheet working and keeping us gaming. Thank you!
1470183215
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
I'm not sure I'd say that it's changed hands; I was just helping out with a bug. If Rhino feels he wants to step back for a while I'd be happy to take the reins and try and stabilise the sheet a bit. It would certainly help to know what is the latest working update, otherwise I'm going to take the latest from Github and work from there.
1470187204

Edited 1470187711
I mean from Rhino to Sam to Rhino, haha. Whether it changes to you or someone else now, I guess my take is still relevant (as far as anyone-not-directly-coding-the-sheet's take can be). I'm slowly teaching myself HTML, but I'm not nearly on this level yet. I have a fork of the code as of version 6.3.0b3 on github if that would help at all. Not sure what updates have been done by Rhino since then. EDIT: On the sheet itself from that code it says it's version b5. Not sure if that's an error or what, but I can get you the code if need be.
1470194330
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Critical Injuries issue was caused by the if(!Array.prototype.includes){} code at the top of the js file. Not sure why that has been added, but removing it fixes the Crit rolls.
1470195099

Edited 1470195366
GM Knowledge Rhino said: Mike said: Fewer arbitrary fields: I feel like fields such as rarity and value aren't particularly useful. Book & Page is okay, I suppose, but if the idea is to put all the relevant info onto the sheet, I wonder why it's there. It's just more fields to clutter the page and daunting players looking at a blank sheet. Restricted is nice so at a glance I can look at a sheet and see if the equipment is something a security team might confiscate from one of my players. Features and Qualities can probably be combined as well. I'm not sure how much more memory intensive it is the more fields are on the sheet or anything, but I am even more staunch about this one if it would reduce any oft that kind of thing. If you have an item, and you wanted to sell it, you use value + rarity to sell it. Is the player (or the GM) supposed to look this up every single time? I think you misunderstand the purpose of the field, that does not mean it is arbitrary. Also the reason Features and Qualities being separate is 2 fold. Qualities are a specific game mechanic that is posted to the roll template. Features are not needed in every "shot" while Qualities are. Again, a misunderstanding of a field does not make it arbitrary. Again, it was just an opinion. In my 400+ hours of playing the system I've never seen a GM do that. They usually just use the negotiation check. I would rather look it up at that rarity of an event, but you're right; perhaps it is something other players see way more often, so perhaps not arbitrary. Qualities aren't necessarily needed in every shot either. They are things to know in the event that the outcome might utilize it. Cumbersome is a quality, but not necessarily relevant to an attack unless you don't actually have the Brawn to meet the requirement. A big issue was I have a game that has over 70 sheets in it, and the more fields it has, I've been led to believe has a massively negative impact on performance (such as the game itself taking anywhere from 2-20 minutes to load) or causing connection timeouts. It's the main reason I suggested it, but I also find it cluttered. Perhaps arbitrary was the wrong word to use in that case. Like I said, I'm not making the sheet, so take what I said with a grain of salt.
1470197132
GM Matt
Sheet Author
Tim P. said: I'm not sure I'd say that it's changed hands; I was just helping out with a bug. If Rhino feels he wants to step back for a while I'd be happy to take the reins and try and stabilise the sheet a bit. It would certainly help to know what is the latest working update, otherwise I'm going to take the latest from Github and work from there. Tim- Since Rhino seems to want to pass the baton, I think this would be great. Even if you don't want it long-term, if you could just get rid of the bracket and get crits where they are functional again, that would be a huge help.
1470206965
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Fixed the Critical Injury issue and the brackets issue. Latest code is here: <a href="https://github.com/khendar/Roll20_StarWars" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/khendar/Roll20_StarWars</a> Character sheet can be tested here:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/1149646/cbbZZQ" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/1149646/cbbZZQ</a> Are there any other bugs which have yet to be addressed ?
1470232894

Edited 1470232923
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Tim P. said: Are there any other bugs which have yet to be addressed ? From the HTML "&lt;!--TODO fix companion name no longer showing up in skill rolls by adding |Companion Name:@{companion-name} to the label--&gt;" When a Companion skill is rolled, it should state it is the companion. Currently it looks just like a regular roll. This was working prior to Samuel taking over but was busted due to "reasons". Also due to the skill suggestions being in the roll, it is wasting over 1000 lines of code being within the skill tab itself, this can be removed to speed up the sheet. Additionally if you could figure out a way to redo the Critical injury/hit code so that it is more streamlined, it is the biggest set of code and if it could "call" a critical rather than doing it via CSS hiding of sections it could make the code so much faster. Potentially a way to adapt the whole sheet to be used as an NPC sheet rather than adding a NPC Sheet tab. If you could adapt the Companion sheet to do the functions of the Rival/Minion it could save a ton of code (likely over 1000 lines). If sections could be hidden for Nemesis characters, that could make it better. Work on actually syncing the Group sheet across the pages. The goal was to sync the group sheet to the GM sheet (like how it works for the Destiny Pool). Samuel and I both could not figure out a decent method for this to work.
Is there a way using the API to create different kinds of sheet? Separate out the group and vehicle sheets, maybe? Then they can be set-up so all the players can use them and there is little need to find a way to sync one section on individual sheets. Not sure if this is possible either, just a thought. I know in my games we've just made a separate sheet for our shared ship.
1470252697

Edited 1470254607
GM Knowledge Rhino said: Mike said: Is there a way using the API to create different kinds of sheet? Separate out the group and vehicle sheets, maybe? Then they can be set-up so all the players can use them and there is little need to find a way to sync one section on individual sheets. Not sure if this is possible either, just a thought. I know in my games we've just made a separate sheet for our shared ship. Yes and no There already&nbsp;are 2 different kinds of sheet (Player and GM) The downside is that it is a 1 time deal for the GM Sheet until Roll20 opens up more sheet options. So there could be a "Group" sheet, but it will show up 1 time per campaign, same with Vehicles/etc. It is a workaround for Roll20 not allowing for multiple sheets that has been around since the first author. I THINK if you copy a "special" sheet that is a one off, it creates a second one that is the same make-up, but I haven't fully tested this, and it sounds more like wasting time than easing it, and I am not sure if it will fix the loading issue. Can you test how much version 4.0.4.6 is affecting loading? (it is the version that is part of the drop down, that can be used in conjunction with the one-click install of the script. My game hasn't had that trouble yet because I haven't opened it to players (the style, and it using a lot sheets means a lot of set-up time.) But the game can have any number of players so it could be a great increase (30+ sheets, possibly). I played in another game of similar style to what I'm doing before that had the problem, and even with Dev help he couldn't eliminate the problem as it was bigger than just adding a line of code to the VTT. I'm trying to keep handouts low in my version to help alleviate the issue since the character sheets are more necessary. Obviously taking out useful things for one style of game isn't very efficient, so I understand if you don't do it. I wouldn't be upset if you didn't. It's just why I mentioned it. Even in that game I at most had 2 minutes, just that some people had a lot longer. I will keep an eye on it though, and make backups as I go using 4.0.4.6 to keep testing. EDIT: Upon further reflection, removing most of those fields is a bad idea considering the Special Modifications ruleset. I still believe Book & Page can be removed, but rarity, value and whatnot would be important for something created by a player since you can't go looking that up necessarily since the rolls can change things about the item. Book & Page seems useful if you remove those fields, but with those fields, it seems unnecessary. So you can frankly disregard that suggestion. I didn't think all the possibilities through. It would be especially useful in the game I plan on running where most things beyond a few basics would be crafted by players, so even if I convinced you to remove them I would probably regret it later.
1470268065
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
I think the only way you're going to be able to significantly reduce the size of these sheets is to remove functionality. There might be some gains to be made in removing redundancies, reusing some stuff and cleaning up the markup somewhat but with all the features that have been added these gains are going to be minimal.
1470268512

Edited 1470268592
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Tim P. said: I think the only way you're going to be able to significantly reduce the size of these sheets is to remove functionality. There might be some gains to be made in removing redundancies, reusing some stuff and cleaning up the markup somewhat but with all the features that have been added these gains are going to be minimal. Or move the functionality to the API rather than the sheet. Take the Critical Injury stuff make it 5-20 lines of HTML rather than 1200 per instance (with 5 instances). Then make it call code from the script. Bam you&nbsp;just reduced the size of the sheet by 33% If you don't know HOW to do that (and I don't) then that is one thing, but to say it is not possible without removing functionality... is wrong.
1470269087
GM Matt
Sheet Author
My vote would be to do whatever is obvious and relatively simple to stabilize and optimize the existing sheet and then go through the process of moving it to the official Roll20 sheet. No new features. Then, have a discussion about where to go next.
1470269983
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
The Critical Hits sections could theoretically be replaced with a repeating section but how much interactivity this allows is unclear. Definitely requires more research.
1470271077
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Well the Critical Section needs; A Button to Roll&nbsp;a Crit This will pull info from the Offset or the specific crit and roll it against a list in the API (which already exists in the API). It will fill in the data for the name, and the effect and the difficulty. The Button, the offset and the specific crit thing will likely be Above the section that lists the injuries in a repeating section. A text box to list the offset A text box to list a specific crit injury number A button to heal the Crit A section to list the difficulty of healing the crit. A section (text area) to display the effects of the crit A text box or label with the name of the Critical injury The functionality will "feel" the same, but the code of the HTML will be significantly lower and it will decrease load time by a lot.
GM Knowledge Rhino said: Mike said: &nbsp;I didn't think all the possibilities through. It would be especially useful in the game I plan on running where most things beyond a few basics would be crafted by players, so even if I convinced you to remove them I would probably regret it later. Maybe it would be useful to do a watered down version. So like the "simple" sheet, but still using the API for rolling. I will look into this "alt" build. This would not take away from this current version, it would add a new one. I guess I should clarify that they're the same game. Not that it's a bad idea. Just that I would need the complicated sheet for the game with tons of sheets. So it really does little to alleviate that problem. The best bet for that game may be to wait for possible expanded functionality where a game can install more than 1 type of sheet. Like a simplified NPC sheet with way less fields or whatnot. The movement of functionality to the API that would effectively prevent every sheet from needing to load it, but would still keep the same overall feel, however, is a creative solution. That could be very useful. Now, as Matt said: I think we try and get the sheet just working for now. Get a stable version that we can push to the official branch of the Roll20 sheet repository. Then we can work on optimization and creative solutions. And by we I mean you guys that are smarter than me. :D
Oh, I'm not saying just put in those two fixes and push it. I'm saying we get it to a stable place, with testing, and then push it. Rather than dealing with moving whole sections out to the API and going through that testing and whatnot. I certainly don't want to make games unplayable. Hell, I have a game that is using the sheet from the dropdown, and it's older than the sheet currently pushed. So they aren't forced to update even if you push.
Is it that big of a slow down for typical games? I realize it's something that's needed for a game like mine, but what about a game with 10-20 sheets? ~5 players and 15 NPCs. I don't know who has any games running that amount.In my newest game with about 7-10 sheets I haven't noticed any speed difference. We could even make it a separate sheet on the repository until we figure out all the other stuff. There are already 4-5 sheets for EotE on there. I'm not sure how big of a deal it would be to have another and then when things are figured out push we won't need two. I guess it's not a big deal either way. I'm certainly willing to go along with it as a custom sheet, too. Was just a thought for GMs who would rather have at least a version that runs all the new features up there without resorting to doing custom. I know it's not particularly difficult, but it's certainly more difficult than picking from the drop-down list when you create a game.
1470283729
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Mike said: We could even make it a separate sheet on the repository until we figure out all the other stuff. Except that is what this is... there is a working sheet, that has 90% of these features. Features were added... and they are not working 100%. There is ZERO reason to push that out and destroy games, when it can continue testing. Heck the version that is currently uploaded I tested for 6 months... SIX MONTHS before I uploaded a stable working version. It had hiccups and I spent a hectic month fixing issues and rushing out fixes. This project hasn't had six months of testing and it has KNOWN issues that affect gameplay. When the file size is closer to 500-700kb rather than the over 1000k it is currently it isn't even worth discussing. The added features were added in a "bloated" method rather than streamlined. So now we are in a situation the ONLY method to go forward is to fix it. After it is fixed, then discussion can be floated about making it official. The Character Sheet was 330kb prior to me touching it, and it was 760kb when I finished. It was 1300kb before I convinced Samuel to streamline things. Currently it is 1022kb with Tim P's changes. Ignoring anything else,&nbsp;uploading it prior to fixing things completely is reckless. I see that any convincing of you or Matt isn't going to happen, so I will end my comment on that subject with this one.
1470283910

Edited 1470284842
I can accept that. We're currently in a test breaking it and getting it to work, so even aside from the size difficulties it has more errors than I thought. I was just putting up as a possibility.
1470285457
GM Matt
Sheet Author
GM Knowledge Rhino said: Mike said: We could even make it a separate sheet on the repository until we figure out all the other stuff. Except that is what this is... there is a working sheet, that has 90% of these features. Features were added... and they are not working 100%. There is ZERO reason to push that out and destroy games, when it can continue testing. Heck the version that is currently uploaded I tested for 6 months... SIX MONTHS before I uploaded a stable working version. It had hiccups and I spent a hectic month fixing issues and rushing out fixes. This project hasn't had six months of testing and it has KNOWN issues that affect gameplay. When the file size is closer to 500-700kb rather than the over 1000k it is currently it isn't even worth discussing. The added features were added in a "bloated" method rather than streamlined. So now we are in a situation the ONLY method to go forward is to fix it. After it is fixed, then discussion can be floated about making it official. The Character Sheet was 330kb prior to me touching it, and it was 760kb when I finished. It was 1300kb before I convinced Samuel to streamline things. Currently it is 1022kb with Tim P's changes. Ignoring anything else,&nbsp;uploading it prior to fixing things completely is reckless. I see that any convincing of you or Matt isn't going to happen, so I will end my comment on that subject with this one. Hmmm..... I must have done a poor job of expressing my opinion. Let me give it another try: I think the sheet in its current state adds some useful things and I think the larger FFG Star Wars Roll20 community would benefit if it could make its way to an official state. To do that (I'm guessing), it would be good to stop adding features and start trying to get the code optimized and stabilized, per things that Rhino and Tim are already talking about. I don't care if that takes time. If it does, I'm fine with that. I do think that there might be a trade-off where optimization is concerned. Some of it may be obvious and relatively easy, and some might involve a lot of re-coding and testing. Maybe there are some things that the coder(s) aren't willing to do to optimize because they are too time consuming. If that is the case, you or Tim should do whatever you are willing to do. But, in any case, I certainly don't advocate releasing anything as long as it has substantial and significant known issues.&nbsp; Like Mike,&nbsp;I also recognize that I don't have the technical ability to do any of the grunt work on the project, and I don't ask that my suggestions be taken as anything other than that: suggestions. I am little more than a volunteer play tester, and not a very good one at that. I play around with updated versions, and also run a relatively recent version of the code in a bi-weekly game. I'm happy to defer to those who are more experienced than me as to when its ready to become official.
1470286372
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
There's a bug in the Suggestions Engine which is causing Skill checks to crash if you switch suggestions to None. I've removed the option temporarily until the issue can be resolved. I have a possible solution for the Criticals tables. Working on a proof of concept.&nbsp;
1470312020

Edited 1470312128
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Would it be accurate to say that the only place the Critical attributes are used are on the various Critical lists, and in the roll templates for the Crit Rolls ? As in they have no direct effect on any skills or abilities ?
1470317136
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Tim P. said: Would it be accurate to say that the only place the Critical attributes are used are on the various Critical lists, and in the roll templates for the Crit Rolls ? As in they have no direct effect on any skills or abilities ? That is 100% accurate. Their code is self contained.
1470317532
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Cool. I have a 90% complete solution for the Critical Hits. Just have to work out deletions and then refactor it so it can handle all the different types of criticals.
1470372549
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
So I tried the latest Tim P version in my game tonight and it was a big enough stopping point that I had to switch to another character sheet version just to play. Part of the problem was it was doubling every roll, and I am not sure why. I am going to chock it up to being just my group unless I see/hear it happening to other groups, but I just wanted to mention it, in case others have the same issue.
1470375020

Edited 1470375271
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
What do you mean by "doubling every roll"? As in it was rolling twice ? Or displaying the results twice ? Or was it doubling the dice rolled ? I haven't seen any similar behaviour so if you could provide a screenshot or something so I know what to look for that would be great. The refactored Criticals code is up on Github. I created a new branch for it so once it's been tested I'll merge it back into the master. <a href="https://github.com/khendar/Roll20_StarWars/tree/re" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/khendar/Roll20_StarWars/tree/re</a>... Removing all those hard coded Criticals sections resulted in a decrease in size of about 15% of the character sheet (~2000 lines) and about 12% overall (for both the cs and the js).
1470406869
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
So I tried the latest sheet, Tim, and it has a bit of a hiccup. With a 100% fresh game, the critical injuries are more broken that before. The repeating section does nothing and the reason there was so little reduction in the total code lines is you kept the "button" section as it was, rather than redoing it as text sections. You kept the clunky sideways section which was coded poorly. Basically what happens right now is it rolls properly, but it never adds to the repeating section and the repeating section wont open. Which means there is some sort of missing code to display the repeating section properly. Additionally you can remove about another 1500(ish) lines of code by removing the hints/suggestions from the character skill tab, they are redundant with the built in skill suggestions.
1470411145
Tim P.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
The issue with the crits not showing up is due to a simple initialisation error. Thanks for picking that one up. I hadn't had the chance to install it on a fresh game. I've pushed that fix up to the branch and it should work fine on a fresh game now. If by the "Button" section you mean this: This is 15 lines of code times 6 critical sheets. This is not the cause of the sheet bloat problem. Each critical section was 377 lines of code. I also consolidated the character and vehicle critical functions in the api so they use the same code.&nbsp; The reason I haven't removed the suggestion/hints code in the html is because I've been focussing on the Crits. I'm also debating what to do with the SuggestionEngine. There are a lot of bugs in that SuggestionEngine code which I'm not comfortable releasing. That was probably going to be the next thing to cull from the character sheet but I know some people find the hints next to the Skills List useful.&nbsp;
1470413105

Edited 1470414231
[Deleted]
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Okay, I did a new test; Test Setup Remove NPC Sheet section Remove Player Group Sheet Tab from GM Character Sheet Started a brand new game Test Install HTML Install CSS Install API Create new Character Changed Name to Example on the Sheet and the Character Name Field Run Crit Injury 4x Tested Critical Hit of Vehicles/Beast/Companion Space/Planet vehicle displace the same text to the Roll Template. While this works and they are both vehicles, it might be useful (in the future) to add something like "Space Vehice Crit" and "Planetary Vehicle Hit" but that isn't anything "broken". Beast/Companion could benefit from the same, as their injuries look like they are applied to the character itself and not to the Beast/Companion. This could cause confusion, but likewise it is not "broken". Summary of events Load was fast (Line count for the HTML was around 9800) Initial test failed, but a restart of the API sandbox had everything work 100% After the API was restarted the 4 crits that I thought didn't work, showed up all at once in the sheet. Conclusion NPC Sheet is a waste of space, Critical Injuries work with Tim P's fix, but it might require a new work space/game to function correctly. Player Group Tab in the GM sheet needs to be removed until it is a useful idea (if it ever is).