Starfinder [ALPHA - WIP] Discussion Thread

Scott C. said: Ok, here's what the core page for PCs looks like. It still has a few layout issues, but this is the general idea I'm going for. Let me know what all you Starfinder fans think: Looks great.  Thanks for the hard work!

That Cool GM said: I would honestly just change this format into the one that is provided in the CRB and online for free. That one is far simpler to understand and doesn't seem all over the place. Yeah, I started out with the physical sheet's layout, but it actually didn't work as well on the screen. What parts of this are difficult to understand/all over the place?

Madman said: Edit: just a personal question why do you change the layouts. Like the default sheet is compact and easy to read. this is kinda large and spaced.. kinda sad about the auto fill but hey beggers can't be choosers. Paper sheet's do not have to handle all the things that you can do on roll20.  Sheet rolls, repeating sections, auto-calculations, macro-text fields, tabs, npc, spaceship, etc.  Not to mention if people want more optional features...  Just saying that it's difficult to have the same nice clean simple look of a pen and paper sheet and still incorporate all the cool features that we have grown to expect on roll20.

Madman said: Edit: just a personal question why do you change the layouts. Like the default sheet is compact and easy to read. this is kinda large and spaced.. kinda sad about the auto fill but hey beggers can't be choosers. There are a couple reasons for the changed layout. Personally I prefer the equipment section to be on the same page as the main page. With the auto fill, there isn't really a need for the Attack Bonuses section, so I just rolled that into the weapon entries. And finally, following a format from an 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper (especially in portrait orientation) on a screen causes lots of scrolling. With this layout, you can just expand the character sheet window horizontally a little and then need very little to no scrolling (depending on screen resolution of course) to see any game affecting section of the sheet at a glance. EDIT: for a typo in point 1

I'm liking it as well! Can't wait to see it in action. As for those demanding one sheet in their method, Scott is taking his time to make the sheet. It's his sheet, and if you don't like it, I'm sure you can ask someone else to do it or do it your way on your own. I for one, am unable to script such a thing and make it look as nicely as Scott is doing, so I fully welcome his sheet and think it looks very nice and far better than anything I can put together. As for Auto Fill making players lazy, no the inverse is just more unnecessary work than is needed. Why should I need to fill out that my dex is a +3 mod on every skill when the sheet can handle the math? My response to that is that I'd just download a PDF that does it anyways anytime I'd go to your game, just to spite you. It's silly.

I'm glad you like the sheet Courtney. Everyone, I'm all for constructive criticism of the sheet and discussion on various ways to accomplish the goal. This is indeed why I posted the previews of how it currently stands. There are more ways than I can count to play and enjoy RPGs. No one way is any more right or wrong than the other. With that in mind, let's focus the thread more on critique of the sheet, and ideas for how to make it better. If you've got an opinion on the sheet; whether it be you love it, like it, dislike it, or hate it; give me some specific points that caused your reaction to the sheet. Simply telling me that you don't like it or that it is confusing doesn't help me improve it, and it does need improvement - this is my first sheet after all. Thank you, Scott C.

It looks really sharp, Scott. You're a hero. :) 

(Now is a good time to remember that sheet creators put hours of thought and work into shaping the sheet, and that they do not get paid for it. These sheets are labors of love. If you have a criticism, be specific and constructive, but also be kind...)

GM Matt said: (Now is a good time to remember that sheet creators put hours of thought and work into shaping the sheet, and that they do not get paid for it. These sheets are labors of love. If you have a criticism, be specific and constructive, but also be kind...) Amen

Awesome work Scott! If you need more  beta tester count me in, I'm preparing a starfinder game to play very soon :)

The Sheet looks amazing. Can not wait to be able to use it. I have a game about ready to start would love to be able to start with the sheet. keep up the amazing work

to tell the truth 5e's layout is pretty bad and is extremely limiting. If you just use the default layout it will be compact and with page 2 you will have a great deal of freedom. Obviously some things will need tweeking since you will have the generated machros for weapons rather than just a place to write the stuff in but on the whole it will make life for everyone a lot easier. Sadly not so much for you since you are the one doing all the work and it is kinda depressing to have people tell you to change all that work back to its default layout. In the end so long as it works it's all good.

Lookin good Scott and thanks for all the hard work and the updates and pics.  I'm fine with auto fill as more players and GM's than not work with that overall :) Can't really comment yet otherwise bud and we will make due with the regular PF sheet or a static game sheet til its up and running, no problem as some of us know the time, effort and not getting a red cent for this besides knowing how gratefull us new Starfinder GM's and players are that you took on this task as well as your helpers to I suspect. :) PM me as/if needed, but I know your busy and as always I'm here for ya Tom

Not to be greedy, but will there be a Starship sheet as well? If not, are there suggestions on how we should handle that?

Scott C. said: There will be a PC, an NPC, and a starship display option. I haven't decided yet if there will be separate NPC/PC starship pages as I'm still working my way through the rules and am focusing on the PC section atm as I'm working to get the PC section up and running first. Read above Joseph :)

Awesome! Sorry, just woke up. XD

To be fair, it is a bit back there :), but, yes there will definitely be a starship sheet.

You still looking for beta testers? 

Once I have a sheet to beta test, yes, I will be.

Hi Scott, two comments: 1. Thought I'd add my voice to say that automated or not, I'm glad you are working on this. I prefer automated sheets, though. 2. Call me when you need beta testers!

Scott C. said: I'm glad you like the sheet Courtney. Everyone, I'm all for constructive criticism of the sheet and discussion on various ways to accomplish the goal. This is indeed why I posted the previews of how it currently stands. There are more ways than I can count to play and enjoy RPGs. No one way is any more right or wrong than the other. With that in mind, let's focus the thread more on critique of the sheet, and ideas for how to make it better. If you've got an opinion on the sheet; whether it be you love it, like it, dislike it, or hate it; give me some specific points that caused your reaction to the sheet. Simply telling me that you don't like it or that it is confusing doesn't help me improve it, and it does need improvement - this is my first sheet after all. Thank you, Scott C. Liking what I see so far. Thank you very much for working on this. Me and my group are chomping at the bit to get our Starfinder Roll20 group underway. As this sheet should be for the base game, I would try to format it as close to the core book sheet as you can and still make it functional. I am very much a fan of the Pathfinder sheets so auto fill away. The more function the better! If you need any testers feel free to hit me up. I cant wait for this to go live.

Thank you for the work you're putting into the sheet. The layout looks good and I look forward to using it when it's released. I'm willing to be a pig of the guinea variety for it.And again thank you sir.

If it matters, I prefer automated sheets as well. 

First off, this is some pretty incredible work! This community is dependent on people like you willing to put in the time and effort to make things like this. Thank you so much. I don't really see anything wrong with the autocomplete system- it took me a while to get used to the Pathfinder sheets, but once we got it, it was a powerful tool that helped speed up gameplay. Also, macros can always be edited for those who like to toss in homebrew things. Since I don't see anything wrong with the setup, the only things I think could use some improvement are the design and layout. Just a few simple quality things, like the spacing for the "Description" box just under the Starfinder logo seems off from the rest of the page. Also, I don't really know why we would need a "Description" box right there- perhaps it could be incorporated into the "Bio" tab? Also, consider using light a light grey grid for Skills, Ability Scores, Armor Class, Saving Throws, and any other box where guided lines for the numbers would greatly increase quality. Also having a little something to fill in all the blank space makes it look more classy and organized, in my humble opinion.

Goggles, Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at the description box after reading your thoughts, it does seem out of place. I'll think what to do with that space. As for the guide lines. I agree there needs to be something. I'm leery of doing lines per-se though as it can quickly start to be harder to see things because of the lines rather than easier. I'll probably come up with a few different layouts and see what the community thinks, the way I'm doing it, that is really just a matter of some slight css tweaks.

Hey Scott C. My LGS is starting a few Starfinder games so, like everyone else I would be stoked to try this out and give you some feedback.

Thanks for working on the sheet! I also would like to volunteer to beta test your sheet!

It is great to see a sheet so far along so soon after it came out - Much looking forward to using it! As everyone else here said, feel free to call upon me for beta testing :)

this is looking great hope to see it up and runing sometime soon  Ok, here's what the core page for PCs looks like. It still has a few layout issues, but this is the general idea I'm going for. Let me know what all you Starfinder fans think:

I'm glad I could help, Scott! I look forward to the beta test phase. Also, this came to me this morning- what about a method more like this? A good bit less clutter than grid lines but you still have that clarity for quick reference, plus it gives a bit more color to the sheet so it's not just all white. I used a light blue to match the Starfinder color scheme, but any light color would work, I think. I'm more of a graphic design kind of person, so most of my opinions lie in the appearance rather than the code and execution. I just roughed this up in Excel so I don't know how difficult this would be realistically.

That looks pretty good, I was thinking of trying something along those lines once I got some of the functionality more firm. Since you have a graphic design background. What would you see as being a good background to fill in the white space between sections? Also, to anyone who is interested in helping with the sheet and has some decent graphical skills; I'm currently using the section header backgrounds from the physical PDF (just vertically flipped), however this is not something that I can release as it probably skirts the copyright of Paizo. Would anyone be interested in making some nice looking header backgrounds?  This is the file I'm currently using (for the greyed out one). The image would need to be in both a color (probably blue scale) and a grey scale. A third color could potentially be used for hover reactivity. If you are interested, PM me. If there's more than one submission, I'll weed it down to a few and then see what you all prefer.

Still wondering what to do on that background idea. I PM'd you with the details on the header background I made, but I'll post it here for some constructive criticism as well.

Yep, saw your message and just replied. The only critique I have is that the shapes may stand out a little too much. I haven't swapped the headers out on the sheet to see how it looks in use, but I think the shapes and the words may compete with each other.

Dropped detail opacity by 50%, I think that's a good medium between visible details and word clarity

I like the look of it. :)

Dang Goggles, that does look nice! I think maybe a little more opaque is good, but the words need to be seen. So I like it as it is.

The sheet looks pretty neat to me, and I'm more than willing to help test it out as soon as possible!

Here are a couple background design ideas! One is a black background with stars, also with an optional "circuit" design (while purely aesthetic, it does connect things that would be correlated, such as "Strength" to "Attacks," "Intelligence" to "Skills" and so forth) The other still has a starfield, but without the circuits, instead with a nebula-like field of color in the background. Personally, I'm enjoying the first one since it's more neutral. What do you guys think?

I'm leaning towards the first option Goggles. Even though colour can be pretty, I feel the second one being a bit overwhelming on the senses.

Just wanted to say thanks so much Scott for putting in the hard work of building the sheet. As someone who's technically challenged and can't even wrap his head around HTML, I think I speak for a lot of us by saying we wouldn't have been able to get this without your hard work or hard work from other's like you.  Also, for what it's worth, Goggles I love the 50% detail opacity background and I personally don't personally find the second background to be too overwhelming on the senses, but I can see how others might. 

I'm mixed. I feel the first is lacking in something, maybe color? But it's hard to say. Feels pretty... void. Pun aside, I mean it. It seems a bit empty. While the second does seem a bit much. Not necessarily the color, but the effect seems to be overwhelming and draws away from the sheet. Though I'm also not liking the hard edges around the titles and boxes. Would it be possible to get that to fit around the edges? Or round them at least?

Most probably someone already said this but I fully support the automation from a GM's point of view. Keep up the good work! I am new on the pathfinder/starfinder scene and anything that autocalculates helps me reduce any manual errors that I would otherwise do while learning the system.

Courtney R. said: I'm mixed. I feel the first is lacking in something, maybe color? But it's hard to say. Feels pretty... void. Pun aside, I mean it. It seems a bit empty. While the second does seem a bit much. Not necessarily the color, but the effect seems to be overwhelming and draws away from the sheet. Though I'm also not liking the hard edges around the titles and boxes. Would it be possible to get that to fit around the edges? Or round them at least? It would in the actual sheet Courtney, Goggles is working with the screencap I posted earlier, not the actual sheet.

Just passing through to see the update on the sheet, keep up the good work guys!

I like the second background, the first is just a tad to plain but either one will work bud :) Tom

Personally, I would prefer something plainer and thus easier for my computer to process.

I'm open to test the alpha/beta/canary versions of the roll20 Layout/Sheet and or Compendiums. I don't have a payed account to load it in manually but my GM has a payed account, I only pay for it when I'm the GMing for my group. Not currently GMing. I started a form-fill PDF but stopped work on it when the online crowd beat me to the finished result. Though I have not seen a ship sheet as form-fill PDF, or a combo character and ship sheet.

Great work by the way folks.

Just wondering, does this sheet have any plans for "Click to Roll" on sheet. I have some sheets just make the macro for you, and some auto-roll it to the chat with just a button on the layout itself.

Hi Rand, Yes, the sheet will have roll buttons. These will output a range of macros from simple ability checks to chat menus to select what to roll without needing to open the sheet.