Custom Compendium

GiGs said: Thumbs said: Essentially what I am proposing is an option to have "Homebrew" sheets added to the compendium.  Are you suggesting the ability for custom sheets to use the Compendium? They can do that already, they just need to be written to support it (which won't be easy, but it can be done).  I would like it to be done so that homebrew items can be put into the my players character sheet, just like dragging and dropping a, for example, shortsword +1. Something that can just be a drag and drop kind of thing. If it something that can already be done to be able to drag and drop into a characters sheet, then please let me know. I would like to make it easier so that if that item switches characters then it would be doable very easily. 

Not that in don't support the idea of Homebrew compendium.  It brings into the issue of people adding protected content.   Items missing from the SRD for example are missing for a reason. 

Having a homebrew compendium means its only available to your group. Adding stuff like the missing compendium details is no different to playing at your tabletop and using the books with that stuff in. You have to have the documents to be able to add to the compendium, and you cant share them with other groups, so there really should be no issue here.

GiGs said: Having a homebrew compendium means its only available to your group. Adding stuff like the missing compendium details is no different to playing at your tabletop and using the books with that stuff in. You have to have the documents to be able to add to the compendium, and you cant share them with other groups, so there really should be no issue here. If it is something that gets written up as a database (like Fantasy Grounds seems to be from a little searching I did a while back), then it would be very easy to share the database outside Roll20 and everyone can plug it into their game.  While this is great for custom content, there is nothing stopping anyone from writing up a database for a protected system to get out of paying for it, and distributing that to others.  I could even see someone charging money for it (though less than what it would cost to buy the content through Roll20).  I'm not sure how they can stop it either.  I expect their dilemma is that, unlike Fantasy Grounds, they would be liable for hosting the pirated content.  Fantasy Grounds is out of that liability loop, since the GM is the host.  At least that is my impression with very limited knowledge of intellectual property law. I'm interested to see what their final implementation is on this, since it seems they are going to make something like this happen eventually.

From an IP law perspective, Roll20 is pretty well protected no matter how the custom compendium actually winds up being implemented as long as they respond to DMCA takedown requests in a timely fashion.  The DMCA provides safe harbor/no liability protections to hosts/ISPs/etc that accept takedown requests and follow the procedures for them. But, since all data is actually hosted by Roll20, I don't see an easy way for people to compile compendiums and then share them unless Roll20 makes an easy compendium export/import tool.  And I don't really see that happening.

Jesse said: But, since all data is actually hosted by Roll20, I don't see an easy way for people to compile compendiums and then share them unless Roll20 makes an easy compendium export/import tool.  And I don't really see that happening. I guess I figured we would have something like the custom character sheet editor to enter the data.  If that is the implementation, then it is a simple copy/paste procedure once something is written and tested.  But maybe it will be different.

Kraynic said: GiGs said: Having a homebrew compendium means its only available to your group. Adding stuff like the missing compendium details is no different to playing at your tabletop and using the books with that stuff in. You have to have the documents to be able to add to the compendium, and you cant share them with other groups, so there really should be no issue here. If it is something that gets written up as a database (like Fantasy Grounds seems to be from a little searching I did a while back), then it would be very easy to share the database outside Roll20 and everyone can plug it into their game.   In addition to Jesse's excellent points, this just isn't true at all. Can you share any of the existing Compendiums? The homebrew compendiums will be exactly the same. I mean, players can write up the contents of any book right now, and share it online. That is irrelevant to the Compendium. Once you put the data in a compendium, getting it back out again is just not going to be easy (unless your campaign creator).

GiGs said: Kraynic said: GiGs said: Having a homebrew compendium means its only available to your group. Adding stuff like the missing compendium details is no different to playing at your tabletop and using the books with that stuff in. You have to have the documents to be able to add to the compendium, and you cant share them with other groups, so there really should be no issue here. If it is something that gets written up as a database (like Fantasy Grounds seems to be from a little searching I did a while back), then it would be very easy to share the database outside Roll20 and everyone can plug it into their game.   In addition to Jesse's excellent points, this just isn't true at all. Can you share any of the existing Compendiums? The homebrew compendiums will be exactly the same. I mean, players can write up the contents of any book right now, and share it online. That is irrelevant to the Compendium. Once you put the data in a compendium, getting it back out again is just not going to be easy (unless your campaign creator). I guess I assumed that a custom compendium would be something we would have ready access to the code.  If not, how would it be custom?  If it is at all along the lines of dropping in code like the sheet or api editor, then it would be easy to share.  I'm not sure what sharing current commercial compendiums has to do with it.

You're assuming you will be able to get a single data file, upload that to roll20, and voila, instant compendium. I cant imagine why you'd think it would work this way. We will have to enter data manually - look at how characters, tables, and everything else in roll20 is created. The roll20 devs have said they are interested in giving us custom compendiums, and the main stumbling block is how hard the tools are to use. Roll20 has always erred on the side of copyright protection, they have definitely considered this and are willing to go ahead. So the copyright issue should be a non-issue, because they would never do it if they weren't satisfied.  Look at how difficult it is to share characters between different GM's campaigns (especially if you arent a Pro user). Technically, these are just data in a database, but we can't get at it in an easy way (even if you are a Pro user and want to use the API to copy characters out is an extremely arduous manual task). The compendium is going to be much the same. My guess is, custom compendiums are going to be isolated to individual GM's campaigns in the same way, with you manually creating each item, and will be a very tedious manual process to get stuff out. But whatever the case, arguing over copyright concerns really is a dead end. The devs have said they want to give us custom compendiums, we can leave them to sort out the details and handle that aspect of it.

GiGs said: My guess is, custom compendiums are going to be isolated to individual GM's campaigns in the same way, with you manually creating each item, and will be a very tedious manual process to get stuff out. That very well could be.  It would then be more like an altered handout system.  I think Astral does something along those lines, while FG has the easily shared database file for a compendium.  

Kraynic said: I guess I assumed that a custom compendium would be something we would have ready access to the code.  If not, how would it be custom?  If it is at all along the lines of dropping in code like the sheet or api editor, then it would be easy to share.  I'm not sure what sharing current commercial compendiums has to do with it. I imagine a compendium would be much different than the API or character sheet code.  Depending on the back-end structure, a custom compendium would likely be either entries in a database or possibly a set of html files and images. Either way, they would most likely have to be created individually on Roll20 and not just copied/pasted into a single box.  If they use an html/image file format it's possible they could allow you to upload a zip file with your custom compendium contents but I doubt they'd allow this.  One, it presents a copyright headache if people can easily exchange their compendiums with each other.  One person makes a version of the PHB, for example, and you have a problem.  But, more important than the just copyright issue, it would cannibalize sales of the PHB or whatever else gets replicated on Roll20 and they definitely don't want that.  :D  Whenever custom compendiums do come, I suspect the tools they give us will be fairly easy to use but the compendiums will not be exportable or shareable beyond the creator's account.

Would it be possible to use the API to simply transfer info from a handout to a character sheet? As in the GM makes spells, feats, items, etc. as handouts in a specified format, with relevant sheet attributes specified by GM, and then they (or players with view permission of the handout) can use an API command to import the data from the handout to create a new item in the appropriate repeating section. Or if it's possible with the API, drag the handout to the character sheet, or maybe a linked token. The main body of text could show the normal details for the players to see, while the script could look at the GM notes for a formatted version of the text that tells it which fields each detail fills in the new item.

Are you asking what is possible now? You can do the first part: store information in  handout, and run a script to copy it to a character sheet. You'd have to come up with a standard format for the script to interpret, nut its definitely do-able. The drag and drop parts aren't possible with the API - the way that is done right now is only possible with the compendium, and a character sheet which has sheet workers specifically written to work with the compendium,

That this isn't available is goofy.  We should be able to make our own homebrew stuff and have it interact with the character sheets.    How can there be a legal issue at all when things already can be placed in roll20?  It makes no sense.  If this was a common homebrew that everyone updated well ok that would be an issue but then don't' make that available then.  I find the obstruction to be disingenuous and they should start making this available.  I would love to create my own game with my own character sheet and compendium and to do that guess you need to go to a different system.  Paying what we pay this is really basic functionality for a paid subscription.  So please roll20 assess the legal issues accurately as functionally this looks no different then what exists save for allowing for better integration with character sheets.

John B said: That this isn't available is goofy.&nbsp; We should be able to make our own homebrew stuff and have it interact with the character sheets.&nbsp; &nbsp; How can there be a legal issue at all when things already can be placed in roll20?&nbsp; It makes no sense.&nbsp; If this was a common homebrew that everyone updated well ok that would be an issue but then don't' make that available then.&nbsp; I find the obstruction to be disingenuous and they should start making this available.&nbsp; I would love to create my own game with my own character sheet and compendium and to do that guess you need to go to a different system.&nbsp; Paying what we pay this is really basic functionality for a paid subscription.&nbsp; So please roll20 assess the legal issues accurately as functionally this looks no different then what exists save for allowing for better integration with character sheets. You might find the last (I think) dev post here informative.&nbsp; It is a ways down on the previous page so easy to miss.&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/7825534/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/7825534/</a>

John B said: That this isn't available is goofy.&nbsp; We should be able to make our own homebrew stuff and have it interact with the character sheets.&nbsp; &nbsp; How can there be a legal issue at all when things already can be placed in roll20?&nbsp; It makes no sense.&nbsp; If this was a common homebrew that everyone updated well ok that would be an issue but then don't' make that available then.&nbsp; I find the obstruction to be disingenuous and they should start making this available.&nbsp; I would love to create my own game with my own character sheet and compendium and to do that guess you need to go to a different system.&nbsp; Paying what we pay this is really basic functionality for a paid subscription.&nbsp; So please roll20 assess the legal issues accurately as functionally this looks no different then what exists save for allowing for better integration with character sheets. Custom Compendiums and customization of character sheets are available in two other VTT solutions currently. I won't name them in fear if being banned for mentioning their names, but they aren't hard to find either.

GiGs said: Are you asking what is possible now? You can do the first part: store information in&nbsp; handout, and run a script to copy it to a character sheet. You'd have to come up with a standard format for the script to interpret, nut its definitely do-able. The drag and drop parts aren't possible with the API - the way that is done right now is only possible with the compendium, and a character sheet which has sheet workers specifically written to work with the compendium, Okay yeah, had a feeling the drag and drop wasn't doable with API. And I wasn't entirely sure if API's could interact with handouts, but I'm glad to know they can. I've never written a script myself, but I have some experience editing existing ones. If you've got advice on a good starting point or know who might be most experienced in scripts that use similar features, I'm all ears! I do wonder if I could make one script that looks for multiple formats and interacts with multiple repeating sections with unique fields, or if it would be easier to make a separate script for each category, like one for items, one for spells, etc. Edit: wait, I knew API could use handouts lol. I use one that does, maybe I could reverse engineer something..

Yes, custom compendiums via script are perfectly doable and in fact already done by more than one sheet. Both my Eclipse Phase sheet and Kryx' D&amp;D 5E shaped sheet support custom compendiums via script, plus either a (json) library of items loaded via script or simply copy-pasting the json into some special field on the sheet itself, for custom "on the fly" items or a more convenient external library (such as my&nbsp; <a href="http://eptools.lkroll.com/Compendium" rel="nofollow">http://eptools.lkroll.com/Compendium</a> &nbsp;for EP, for example). In combination with generating large macros for all the items in your loaded compendium, you can get this method to be fairly efficient for players. Not quite as intuitive as drag-and-drop, but within a 10min learning curve of it for the average player, I would guess. It does involve a certain amount of programming for the sheet and the script, of course, and to keep them properly in sync, so that imported items end up in the right fields and always trigger the correct sheet workers (the latter can get quite tricky to maintain, depending on the design of your sheet).

@Lars K. I've had a look at your character sheet and custom compendium but I can't figure out how to install it?

I think we especially need it because I want to create and have custom items in it.

I hope that Roll20 will eventually add features like this. Its such a basic thing, that you are able to add hombrew items or also subclasses.

Most of the time, the data in a Compendium needs to be formatted specifically for the Character Sheet that's going to use it. The exception being compendiums that are primarily used for storing rules, not so much about stats. The plans that we have been compiling for an update to the Compendium Software will be a way to create, update, and access text, images, stats, and rules working in much the same way as the Compendium tab works now. The next expectation (in my opinion) would be to support interacting with that custom data (like drag and drop). The way this goes in - and verifying that it goes in correctly - is going to be different for each Character Sheet. That's where the majority of the complexity of this feature comes from.

Thanks for the update.&nbsp; For the majority of games here, the drag and drop capability is probably highly desired since the compendium people are used to already does that.&nbsp; For those like myself that run games that will never have a compendium, it would be nice to have to replace my 2000+ (mostly archived) indexed and cross linked handouts that store an entire games system rule set.&nbsp; Well, almost entire...&nbsp; I keep finding little things I have missed! Drag and drop capability would be secondary to me, and would highly depend on how difficult it would be to make my sheet compendium compliant.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure Drag &amp; drop is the reason the compendium exists, especially for official sheets. But for custom compendiums, its value as a reference library is much more important. Most people who want to make custom compendiums probably are't going to be making character sheets - they just want to create and track custom info for their campaign, so priority should IMO be given to just implementing that. Drag &amp; Drop features would be very useful too, but will be used by a much smaller part of the userbase, so shouldn't hold up the implementation of the above.

I could do without drag&amp;drop. My situation is the same as Kraynic. A big number of handouts for rules, still adding new handouts. To keep all my games updated on my handout-compendium status is a mess with the current implementation of the transmogrifier.&nbsp; It would be great if I could just update an entry in a compendium and all my games are updated as well.&nbsp; Edit: I play a game which probably won't ever get an official compendium.&nbsp;

Yes, I don't imagine using drag and drop with a custom compendium, but would love to have a player-searchable reference for home-brew rules, items, spells, etc.

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Thanks for the feedback. We are working on the research and continue gathering requirements for this enhancement.&nbsp;

+1 - Please implement. It would be nice to be able to program in UA content or to create custom feats.

I have no use for drag and drop, I run games that pretty much always use custom, obscure, or out of print rulesets and it would a lot easier to set it up in a' compendium-lite', then having a long list of handouts with each section loaded in so the players can have access to the rules.

+1

Please Please roll20. I know is prob going to be complicated, but This will boost roll20 very much.

This thread has been going on for something like 4 years so at this stage I'm pretty unconvinced that it's going to happen, however, this would make running multiple Homebrewed games so much easier. +1 from me

This would be great. +1

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Evidently I am in in the minority here, but I would love the Drag and Drop functionality. I have homebrewed quite a few spells, that both Players and NPCs use, and being able to add them to a character sheet easily would be great. I appreciate the difficulty of catering to different character sheets, so I can understand if that feature would come out later, but please don't think the feature wouldn't be appreciated!

god this would be nice, I mean currently I copy past all the info in and keep files for such, and I know many use custom char sheets to replicate this, but being able to enter all the house rules and home brew stuff for use in my games would by far make roll 20 a more appealing place to run. It is largely why we went back to pen and paper games, to many house rules and custom races and classes ect to make roll 20 all that effective.

Brandon -- I'm not sure you're in the minority. I can certainly say for myself that I want to be able to enter homebrew items into the compendium so that within the context of my games they will act like items in the compendium, which includes drag and drop functionality and anything else compendium items will do.

+10,000,000,000

+1

+1 This feature is a must in order to consider any kind of long term subscription.

+1 Not all compendiums are complete (especially if you use 3rd party or homebrew), and not all games have compendiums. The main problem I want to solve is that when I set up custom equipment, abilities, etc., I only want to have to set them up once. If, after adding a customized equipment, ability, etc to one character, there was some way to copy it to another character, either by dragging it from one character sheet to another or by selecting some option to add it to a custom compendium, that would be all I need. A workflow of setting up compendium items by configuring them on a character sheet first and then exporting to the compendium seems like it ought to solve (at least partially) the issue of formatting the data specifically for the character sheet that's going to use it. I like an idea someone upthread had about being able to have multiple compatible compendiums in the same game. You could have the main compendium plus any number of addons compendiums that add new things and/or override existing things. That would allow third party publishers to sell compendiums through the marketplace. I'd love to be able to import, e.g., Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might compendiums into a Pathfinder game. What I don't want is to have to keep setting up the same sphere talents over and over for each character and NPC.