[Torg Eternity] Sheet redesign thread

GiGs said: TiaMaster said: I posted the question so we'll see. The problem was that the sheet came over unattached to the token I guess. Something else that I cant fix. Dragon Claws came over as being Energy Weapons. Its probably impossible to know what people write in the Damage Formula section, so that didn't come over right. Melee Weapons came over with no adds. TOU is calculating wrong. Would still like to have Run speed in the Derived mods list. I'm not planning to have Run modifier in the derived section at this stage. That's handy for  monsters and will be done when i do the threats tab.  I'll check the others later. Though I wouldnt worry about the dragon claws name - that sounds like I've just filled the name with the wrong attribute. That should be an easy fix.  Sorry I wasnt clear - the name came over but the skill came over as EW.

Pg. 119 Core, " Minimum Bonus : An active defense can't make a target more vulnerable ..." Okay, I change what I said, above.  My bad. I had to look this up all over, again.  I figured it was an action so it had to follow the rules of all other actions.  That line, above, answers for me.

TiaMaster said: GiGs said: TiaMaster said: I posted the question so we'll see. The problem was that the sheet came over unattached to the token I guess. Something else that I cant fix. Dragon Claws came over as being Energy Weapons. Its probably impossible to know what people write in the Damage Formula section, so that didn't come over right. Melee Weapons came over with no adds. TOU is calculating wrong. Would still like to have Run speed in the Derived mods list. I'm not planning to have Run modifier in the derived section at this stage. That's handy for  monsters and will be done when i do the threats tab.  I'll check the others later. Though I wouldnt worry about the dragon claws name - that sounds like I've just filled the name with the wrong attribute. That should be an easy fix.  Sorry I wasnt clear - the name came over but the skill came over as EW. Holy moly, that Toughness is hilariously wrong. What should it have been? (It looks like its taken the STR+4 total for armour, and doubled it, so that shouldnt be too hard to track down.) Also which skill was Dragon Claws supposed to use? I see the other weapon has converted properly, so it might just be an error in matching that specific skill. You said Melee Weapons came over with no adds. If Dragon Claws also uses Melee Weapons, those are probably both caused by the same error. And yes, there's no way to match the damage formula. That's why i ensure its copied into the Attack Note box, so players can set it manually. The actual total should be converted properly.

The Dragon Claws / missing Melee Weapons adds has been fixed (though not in the testbed campaign yet). I had somehow left Melee Weapons of the list of skills to convert - a silly oversight. I know why the toughness error occurred: I forgot to take into account that toughness will include armor levels, and that caused the calculation to get screwy. It should convert fine for characters not wearing armour, and I'll fix it for those with armour later.

I thought it would be handy to have a reference post for known issues, so here it is Known Issues NO FIX POSSIBLE: In the old sheet, there was a place to enter Damage Formula for attacks. This was a plain text field, and there's no way to match this with any certainty. So, I don't attempt to: I just past it in the Attack Note, and let people apply it manually. The actual Damage Value is a number field and is converted properly. NO FIX NEEDED: When converting skills to the new sheet, the script has to be identify which skill your old skill was, by the name you typed in the box. If there are typos, or it isnt spelled exactly as in the Torg Rulebook, this will fail. When this happens, your skill will be added to the Custom Skills section. There's no automated fix for this. Try to make sure your skill names are spelled properly. But if not, it's no big deal - you can manually transfer it to the skill it is meant to be. NO FIX NEEDED (but considering it anyway): The update announcement tab comes up for all new characters, including ones not made on the previous sheet. It would be nice for that to only appear on characters being updated, and i may figure it out, but its not essential. FIXED: Melee Weapons will not be converted properly. This is fixed in my design version, but not in the live campaign yet. FIXED (i think): Toughness scores of those wearing armour will be 'slightly' incorrect. A fix is pending. FIXED: when making a roll, if your total value (skill value + modifier + status modifiers) is 0 or below, the total result might not be displayed. I only discovered this when trying to add status modifiers to Multi-Action button. I'm concerned its a roll20 failing, and i might have rewrite 1400 lines of rolltemplate code to bypass it. Ugh. Waiting for responses over here . Thats all for now. I'll update this list as things are discovered.

GiGs said: I know why the toughness error occurred: I forgot to take into account that toughness will include armor levels, and that caused the calculation to get screwy. It should convert fine for characters not wearing armour, and I'll fix it for those with armour later. GiGs, is there a way for you to set anything in the individual armor's that do not stack with others?

Pauly da Leg-breaka said: GiGs said: I know why the toughness error occurred: I forgot to take into account that toughness will include armor levels, and that caused the calculation to get screwy. It should convert fine for characters not wearing armour, and I'll fix it for those with armour later. GiGs, is there a way for you to set anything in the individual armor's that do not stack with others? There's a Worn (W) checkbox. Uncheck ones you dont want to count. Is that what you need? As I understand the rules, if you wear multiple suits, they do stack in the following way: Use the highest armour adds use the lowest dex add together all fatigue results But you want to carry multiple suits, and only have one count towards armour stats, just uncheck the W checkbox for the others.

I just updated the campaign to add Multi-action roll support of bonuses and status, and fix the Melee Weapons import. I havent fixed toughness yet - working around the roll20 bug for multi-weapon bonuses took me all night. TiaMaster, can you try importing that character again to check melee weapon stuff is imported properly.

One good thing is the melee adds came across.

Roll20 is having site issues. Best wait a few hours and see if that's related.

It looks like its fixed itself without me doing anything. 

I've just updated the campaign with a fix (hopefully) for the toughness conversion, so try importing again. (Though considering how flaky the site is today, it might be better to wait a while.)

I've started to build a wiki page for the sheet here. Today is a good day to build it, considering how flaky the main site is... <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet</a>

I can't even make it to the wiki. I'm running a tutorial encounter tomorrow night and would be happy to use the sheet and put it through some paces.

I cant make it to the wiki either. Immediately after posting that, it stopped loading. If you have time, try vaulting in your dragon warrior character again to the existing campaign.&nbsp; Will this tutorial game be using all-new characters?

GiGs said: I cant make it to the wiki either. Immediately after posting that, it stopped loading. If you have time, try vaulting in your dragon warrior character again to the existing campaign.&nbsp; Will this tutorial game be using all-new characters? Im importing it now. Yes all new characters.

Okay I'll post it in a gist later tonight. I warn you though: USE AT YOUR OWN PERIL. That warning probably isnt necessary. I think its fine to use (I'm using it myself), but it is still a work in progress, so there's a slim chance issues may come to light. If I have to re-edit the sheet before I publish the final version, there's a slim chance it may render some sections of your character sheets invalid, and you may have to manually transfer characters out of it (since they'll be no upgrade path).&nbsp; With that in mind, if you (or anyone) wants to try it out, I'll post the link later. Only use it for new characters, not for transfers from the old sheet. And feel free to give feedback. If you want to be safe, wait a week. I expect the sheet to be fully complete (the first tab, that is) during next week sometime.

I just finished the write-up on the wiki. Let me know if it does a good job of explaining how to use the sheet. <a href="http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet</a>

Here's the sheet code if you feel brave enough to try it out. <a href="https://gist.github.com/G-G-G/bcc5e3e6c90c1770ef52cca7f7649376" rel="nofollow">https://gist.github.com/G-G-G/bcc5e3e6c90c1770ef52cca7f7649376</a> It should work fine for completely new characters. If you have a torg campaign using the old sheet, feel free to swap this one and let me know how it works. That's what I'm testing at the moment, and need more feedback. Copy your campaign first, to make sure it doesn't mess it up.

TiaMaster, it looks like the toughness score was converted properly this time. Are there any issues that you noticed?

GiGs said: I just finished the write-up on the wiki. Let me know if it does a good job of explaining how to use the sheet. <a href="http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet</a> Looks great GiGs.&nbsp; I hope you don't mind... I took the liberty and added [[Category:Character Sheet Documentation]] to the bottom of your wiki page's code so that your guide shows up automatically on&nbsp; <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Category:Character_Sheet_Documentation" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Category:Character_Sheet_Documentation</a>

Vince said: GiGs said: I just finished the write-up on the wiki. Let me know if it does a good job of explaining how to use the sheet. <a href="http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet</a> Looks great GiGs.&nbsp; I hope you don't mind... I took the liberty and added [[Category:Character Sheet Documentation]] to the bottom of your wiki page's code so that your guide shows up automatically on&nbsp; <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Category:Character_Sheet_Documentation" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Category:Character_Sheet_Documentation</a> I was holding off adding that till I actually submitted the sheet. I was thinking that it'll cause confusion if people using the old sheet go looking for a wiki page on their sheet and find something different. Though its probably a good idea to add it. I can include a note at the top that it's about the coming upgrade.

I've added a notice to the wiki page.

Sorry GiGs, didn't even consider that.&nbsp; The sheet looks ready for prime time. ;-)

In adding the code for the new sheet to an existing game, I am noticing three things so far: (1) For whatever reason, the defenses will not update/calculate and update until you open, close, and then re-open the sheet. (2) Armor adds either aren't transferring (or else maybe they were never set up in the previous sheets in the first place - if so, disregard) (3) The skills associated with weapons/powers aren't transferring. Other than that, it seems to update really well. I'm impressed.

GiGs said: I just finished the write-up on the wiki. Let me know if it does a good job of explaining how to use the sheet. <a href="http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet</a> Is there a way to use a macro to roll weapons/powers (e.g., %{Power1} %{Power2}, etc.? If so, I suggest that be added to the wiki.

Tried to import Officer Addison Cordrey but I bet permissions are messed up because this is my second character. The last two Dragon Warriors I imported did so correctly (except for known issues).

TiaMaster said: Tried to import Officer Addison Cordrey but I bet permissions are messed up because this is my second character. The last two Dragon Warriors I imported did so correctly (except for known issues). I've reset Cordrey's permissions. Is there anything on that character? Two perks have been updated, but it seems like all the skills and attributes are at defaults?

GM Matt said: In adding the code for the new sheet to an existing game, I am noticing three things so far: (1) For whatever reason, the defenses will not update/calculate and update until you open, close, and then re-open the sheet. (2) Armor adds either aren't transferring (or else maybe they were never set up in the previous sheets in the first place - if so, disregard) (3) The skills associated with weapons/powers aren't transferring. Other than that, it seems to update really well. I'm impressed. Thanks, though I did point it this version of the sheet wasnt meant for characters using the old sheet. (I've just edited the previous post to make that bold.) If you have a copy of the those characters in a campaign that hasnt been updated, could you vault them into my public campaign so I can look at them and see why they aren't updating? That said, I'm puzzled by defences not updating. I dont think I made any chancges before posting that would affect that, and it works at my end. I'll checj the code, but it would be nice to see the characters.

GM Matt said: GiGs said: I just finished the write-up on the wiki. Let me know if it does a good job of explaining how to use the sheet. <a href="http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.roll20.net/Torg_Eternity_Community_Sheet</a> Is there a way to use a macro to roll weapons/powers (e.g., %{Power1} %{Power2}, etc.? If so, I suggest that be added to the wiki. You can do this, but since they are in a repeating section, it's fiddly: %{repeating_attacks_$0_rollAttack} for the first attack, for instance. Cant remember the damage one off-hand (rollDamage instead of rollAttack, maybe). I should add it to the wiki.

GiGs said: You can do this, but since they are in a repeating section, it's fiddly: %{repeating_attacks_$0_rollAttack} for the first attack, for instance. Cant remember the damage one off-hand (rollDamage instead of rollAttack, maybe). I should add it to the wiki. A lot less fiddly than having to reproduce the entire roll template in the macro! I'll take it.&lt;G&gt;

GiGs said: Thanks, though I did point it this version of the sheet wasnt meant for characters using the old sheet. (I've just edited the previous post to make that bold.) If you have a copy of the those characters in a campaign that hasnt been updated, could you vault them into my public campaign so I can look at them and see why they aren't updating? That said, I'm puzzled by defences not updating. I dont think I made any chancges before posting that would affect that, and it works at my end. I'll checj the code, but it would be nice to see the characters. Once YOU go in and open the sheet, that would be the point where the sheet updates the defenses and stuff that were zero upon the first opening. &nbsp;Also, no matter where the sheet comes from, the Announcement takes two times of opening/closing to go away.

GiGs said: I've reset Cordrey's permissions. Is there anything on that character? Two perks have been updated, but it seems like all the skills and attributes are at defaults? Heh heh...my bad wrong guy. I just imported Zenon, so I'm sure permissions are wrong.

GiGs said: GM Matt said: In adding the code for the new sheet to an existing game, I am noticing three things so far: (1) For whatever reason, the defenses will not update/calculate and update until you open, close, and then re-open the sheet. (2) Armor adds either aren't transferring (or else maybe they were never set up in the previous sheets in the first place - if so, disregard) (3) The skills associated with weapons/powers aren't transferring. Other than that, it seems to update really well. I'm impressed. Thanks, though I did point it this version of the sheet wasnt meant for characters using the old sheet. (I've just edited the previous post to make that bold.) If you have a copy of the those characters in a campaign that hasnt been updated, could you vault them into my public campaign so I can look at them and see why they aren't updating? That said, I'm puzzled by defences not updating. I dont think I made any chancges before posting that would affect that, and it works at my end. I'll checj the code, but it would be nice to see the characters. On the old sheets translating over: just letting you know it is working pretty well, even though it isn't "supported" by the redesign. On the defenses: as I said, they *do* eventually update, but I have to open the sheet, close it, and then open it again before it will make the update. Not a huge deal, really. If you want to check it out in the original environment, you can look at the Realm Runner or Operative in my game <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/2421070/QvCTEA" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/2421070/QvCTEA</a> . I've made you GM so you can poke around as much as you need.

TiaMaster said: GiGs said: Thanks, though I did point it this version of the sheet wasnt meant for characters using the old sheet. (I've just edited the previous post to make that bold.) If you have a copy of the those characters in a campaign that hasnt been updated, could you vault them into my public campaign so I can look at them and see why they aren't updating? That said, I'm puzzled by defences not updating. I dont think I made any chancges before posting that would affect that, and it works at my end. I'll checj the code, but it would be nice to see the characters. Once YOU go in and open the sheet, that would be the point where the sheet updates the defenses and stuff that were zero upon the first opening. &nbsp;Also, no matter where the sheet comes from, the Announcement takes two times of opening/closing to go away. Regarding the announcement, yes, there's something finicky there, but this isnt quite right. If you close the sheet immediately, then reopen it, you only need to click it away once. I havent figured out why it ignores the click on first opening yet, but you do have to close the sheet once to finish the update procedure anyway. I may figure out a way around that, but havent yet.

I know you have made this decision already, but I would much more prefer an Active Defense button than a Fatigue button.&nbsp; Like that setting the old custom sheet had.

TiaMaster said: GiGs said: I've reset Cordrey's permissions. Is there anything on that character? Two perks have been updated, but it seems like all the skills and attributes are at defaults? Heh heh...my bad wrong guy. I just imported Zenon, so I'm sure permissions are wrong. I just fixed Zenon. It's funny but that specific character always has no permissions set. I wonder if there's something funky in its code.

GM Matt said: GiGs said: GM Matt said: In adding the code for the new sheet to an existing game, I am noticing three things so far: (1) For whatever reason, the defenses will not update/calculate and update until you open, close, and then re-open the sheet. (2) Armor adds either aren't transferring (or else maybe they were never set up in the previous sheets in the first place - if so, disregard) (3) The skills associated with weapons/powers aren't transferring. Other than that, it seems to update really well. I'm impressed. Thanks, though I did point it this version of the sheet wasnt meant for characters using the old sheet. (I've just edited the previous post to make that bold.) If you have a copy of the those characters in a campaign that hasnt been updated, could you vault them into my public campaign so I can look at them and see why they aren't updating? That said, I'm puzzled by defences not updating. I dont think I made any chancges before posting that would affect that, and it works at my end. I'll checj the code, but it would be nice to see the characters. On the old sheets translating over: just letting you know it is working pretty well, even though it isn't "supported" by the redesign. On the defenses: as I said, they *do* eventually update, but I have to open the sheet, close it, and then open it again before it will make the update. Not a huge deal, really. If you want to check it out in the original environment, you can look at the Realm Runner or Operative in my game <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/2421070/QvCTEA" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/2421070/QvCTEA</a> . I've made you GM so you can poke around as much as you need. Looking at your game is no help to me. I need to be able to test things by fiddling with the sheet code (activating and deactivating console statements to see what is going on under the hood), and I cant do that in games created by another GM. It would be much more helpful to post them into the public game. I cant reproduce this problem in my own copies of the game (including the one using the code I posted publicly). Which is why I'm asking for those characters to be vaulted in. Just to be clear: As TiaMaster pointed out, when you first open a sheet when its updated, things wont work properly. But once you close it after that first time, it should be working properly - defences should be updating instantly. So if that isnt happening. I need to know why. If anyone else is experiencing this, too, please let me know.

GM Matt said: GiGs said: You can do this, but since they are in a repeating section, it's fiddly: %{repeating_attacks_$0_rollAttack} for the first attack, for instance. Cant remember the damage one off-hand (rollDamage instead of rollAttack, maybe). I should add it to the wiki. A lot less fiddly than having to reproduce the entire roll template in the macro! I'll take it.&lt;G&gt; Thats true :)

Don't pay attention to Zenon.

GiGs said: Just to be clear: As TiaMaster pointed out, when you first open a sheet when its updated, things wont work properly. But once you close it after that first time, it should be working properly - defences should be updating instantly. So if that isnt happening. I need to know why. If anyone else is experiencing this, too, please let me know. Yeah, that is what is happening to my characters. I may not be explaining it well. Open first time = not working. Close. Re-Open = working. It is updating when the sheet is opened for the second time. I'll move over a couple of characters - one where the sheet has already opened and re-opened, and one where it hasn't yet been opened with the new code - but it sounds like all mine are transferring properly.

GiGs said: TiaMaster said: GiGs said: I've reset Cordrey's permissions. Is there anything on that character? Two perks have been updated, but it seems like all the skills and attributes are at defaults? Heh heh...my bad wrong guy. I just imported Zenon, so I'm sure permissions are wrong. I just fixed Zenon. It's funny but that specific character always has no permissions set. I wonder if there's something funky in its code. So it's not Zenon. Its every character after the first.&nbsp; Unless it the SAME character, then it works. I think. So Dragon Warrion worked every time, but now other characters won't have permissions set.

GM Matt said: GiGs said: Just to be clear: As TiaMaster pointed out, when you first open a sheet when its updated, things wont work properly. But once you close it after that first time, it should be working properly - defences should be updating instantly. So if that isnt happening. I need to know why. If anyone else is experiencing this, too, please let me know. Yeah, that is what is happening to my characters. I may not be explaining it well. Open first time = not working. Close. Re-Open = working. It is updating when the sheet is opened for the second time. So, once you have closed it after update, things are working properly and immediately? When you change a defence it updates immediately? If so, that's the intended behaviour* and I just need to make it clearer in the announcement that you have to close the sheet once before using it at all. * (actually it's a limitation of the way I built the sheet workers. I figured it wouldnt be a big deal since its something you only have to do once per character, but maybe I made a mistake there.) The other issues you reported: armor adds and weapon skills not transferring do need to be looked at.&nbsp;

GiGs said: So, once you have closed it after update, things are working properly and immediately? When you change a defence it updates immediately? If so, that's the intended behaviour* and I just need to make it clearer in the announcement that you have to close the sheet once before using it at all. * (actually it's a limitation of the way I built the sheet workers. I figured it wouldnt be a big deal since its something you only have to do once per character, but maybe I made a mistake there.) The other issues you reported: armor adds and weapon skills not transferring do need to be looked at.&nbsp; On closing after update -&gt; Yes, it is doing exactly what you describe, as intended. On weapon skills - you've got a couple of characters to look at on the dev server now. After further testing, I *think* most of them actually are transferring. The only ones that don't seem to transfer are melee weapons. I suspect it is because the name of the skill is different on the original sheet than the new one, but I could be wrong.

GM Matt said: GiGs said: So, once you have closed it after update, things are working properly and immediately? When you change a defence it updates immediately? If so, that's the intended behaviour* and I just need to make it clearer in the announcement that you have to close the sheet once before using it at all. * (actually it's a limitation of the way I built the sheet workers. I figured it wouldnt be a big deal since its something you only have to do once per character, but maybe I made a mistake there.) The other issues you reported: armor adds and weapon skills not transferring do need to be looked at.&nbsp; On closing after update -&gt; Yes, it is doing exactly what you describe, as intended. On weapon skills - you've got a couple of characters to look at on the dev server now. After further testing, I *think* most of them actually are transferring. The only ones that don't seem to transfer are melee weapons. I suspect it is because the name of the skill is different on the original sheet than the new one, but I could be wrong. Thanks, I'll check them out soon. There was an issue with melee weapons not transferring earlier in the thread (because of the name change), but I thought I'd fixed that.

GiGs said: Cant remember the damage one off-hand (rollDamage instead of rollAttack, maybe). I should add it to the wiki. Low priority issue, here, but damage doesn't appear to be functional as a macro call under the current version. I think I identified why. The name of the roll button is "roll_damage" but if changed to "attr_roll_damage" it can be called with %@{selected|repeating_attacks_$0_roll_damage}. I have the damage macro working on my sheet by making the above change.

Matt I would love the chance to see your macros when you are done.

Matt, it looks like Realm runner's melee attack is accurate? Had you fixed that manually?&nbsp;

GiGs said: Matt, it looks like Realm runner's melee attack is accurate? Had you fixed that manually?&nbsp; I believe that I did. Wasn't thinking about that. I'm going to send over another one that I haven't modified with incorrect transfer of Melee. Stand by.

Thanks!