[Torg Eternity] Sheet redesign thread

GiGs said: I suspect something must be overriding the page's display and I might not be able to do anything. I've made on last attempt. This is what it looks like on firefox for me: If it works, I'll tone it down a bit so it isnt as close as the torg logo. Give it a go, and lets cross our fingers. Sorry, no. Maybe it's my version of Firefox. It could again be a problem with the width of the Axioms field

GiGs said: The question: when you click the Bonus Dice button, would it be better to give a popup asking for a number of bonus dice, or just roll 1 bonus die? The latter is a bit quicker. But I suppose there are occasions where you spend more than one coup de grace card. Are there other occasions where you'd need to add more than one? (Remember the bonus dice gained for your initial Outstanding success have already been added in the initial roll). My players always roll coup de grace one die at a time. If the one coup de grace is already enough they want to save the other cards for later when they really need it

Also I'm thrilled and extraordinarily thankful to GM Matt and GiGs for the Torg Eternity Sheets old and new (and to all the others who worked on this). I used the old one extensively in the one Online-campaign I started, and now there's all my Offline-campaigns going online too. The new Sheet couldn't have come at a better time

Markus said: GiGs said: I suspect something must be overriding the page's display and I might not be able to do anything. I've made on last attempt. This is what it looks like on firefox for me: If it works, I'll tone it down a bit so it isnt as close as the torg logo. Give it a go, and lets cross our fingers. Sorry, no. Maybe it's my version of Firefox. It could again be a problem with the width of the Axioms field Or something - cookie settings, a plugin, or something. Its not the axiom field width - I've changed it multiple times, added spacing either side, and so on, but nothing has an effect. This kind of behaviour is usually caused by an extension that manipulates CSS, but if you aren't running any of those, I'm honestly at a loss. If more people have the issue, once the sheet goes live, maybe we'll find something in common.

I've sorted out the issue with the skill attributes not being transferred properly, so all that's left is to clean up the code and remove unnecessary comments. As long as some game breaking error isnt discovered between now and Monday, the sheet will be submitted in time for this week's updates.

Does it show individual die results? Some things like trademark weapon allow a re-roll of a die, some things allow rerolling all 1's etc. If it can't show what each die was it might be best to do them one at a time. GiGs said: I have a question about Bonus Dice / Coup De Grace. First a preview pic. This is what it looks like after you make bonus die roll. Poor Dragon Warrior didnt roll well on his bonus die. The question: when you click the Bonus Dice button, would it be better to give a popup asking for a number of bonus dice, or just roll 1 bonus die? The latter is a bit quicker. But I suppose there are occasions where you spend more than one coup de grace card. Are there other occasions where you'd need to add more than one? (Remember the bonus dice gained for your initial Outstanding success have already been added in the initial roll).

GiGs said: But I'll get back to them (probably sooner rather than later, as I run my own game and find I want them). LOL, yeah I find that I would like to have them readily available, as well.  However, you most assuredly have earned the break. GiGs said: The question: when you click the Bonus Dice button, would it be better to give a popup asking for a number of bonus dice, or just roll 1 bonus die? For my personal thought, I would find it better to have the option, please? Markus said: My players always roll coup de grace one die at a time. If the one coup de grace is already enough they want to save the other cards for later when they really need it That's a good point, and it bears a question: We'll have the initial damage block based on to-hit rolls and the bonus dice from those... if we click the Bonus Die button and it adds to the damage... first, will the damage be re-calculated and, second, will we have another Bonus Die button on the bottom of the new box? Markus said: The new Sheet couldn't have come at a better time I could NOT agree more!

Zoula said: Does it show individual die results? Some things like trademark weapon allow a re-roll of a die, some things allow rerolling all 1's etc. If it can't show what each die was it might be best to do them one at a time. That's something I hadnt considered. You can see the dice by hovering over the roll, but its a limitation of roll20 that you cant display the individual dice in a roll in a sheet's rolltemplate. You have to use inline roll syntax (the square brackets [[ ]]) for rolls, and there's no way to reveal them individually. So that's the best that can be done via a sheet (if you want to have a rolltemplate - you could use the /roll syntax but that has many other limitations).  I plan on making an API script for pro subscribers that can bypass these issues, but the sheet has to be usable by free users so couldnt build that sort of thing in. 

Pauly da Leg-breaka said: That's a good point, and it bears a question: We'll have the initial damage block based on to-hit rolls and the bonus dice from those... if we click the Bonus Die button and it adds to the damage... first, will the damage be re-calculated and, second, will we have another Bonus Die button on the bottom of the new box? Yes, the pic above is from a bonus die, and you can see the button is at the  bottom. You can click it again and again, adding dice each time, increasing the damage as you go.

GiGs said: Yes, the pic above is from a bonus die, and you can see the button is at the  bottom. You can click it again and again, adding dice each time, increasing the damage as you go. Excellent, thank you.  My Players and I are playing tomorrow night and I'm going to be salivating over waiting to run with the new sheet.  I can only hope my Players read the Wiki sheet you've written.  By the way, I don't remember where in the conversation you addressed being able to disable or get rid of the Version 4 Frame on top of the character sheets, so could you help me remember what I need to do to close it, when the Close This Frame button doesn't work, please?

Pauly da Leg-breaka said: GiGs said: Yes, the pic above is from a bonus die, and you can see the button is at the  bottom. You can click it again and again, adding dice each time, increasing the damage as you go. Excellent, thank you.  My Players and I are playing tomorrow night and I'm going to be salivating over waiting to run with the new sheet.  I can only hope my Players read the Wiki sheet you've written.  By the way, I don't remember where in the conversation you addressed being able to disable or get rid of the Version 4 Frame on top of the character sheets, so could you help me remember what I need to do to close it, when the Close This Frame button doesn't work, please? The settings cog at the top right of the sheet - click that, and tick the "toggle announcements" entry then untick it.

GiGs said: The settings cog at the top right of the sheet - click that, and tick the "toggle announcements" entry then untick it. Thank you, again.  I have it written down, now, so I likely won't forget it.

GiGs said: Zoula said: Does it show individual die results? Some things like trademark weapon allow a re-roll of a die, some things allow rerolling all 1's etc. If it can't show what each die was it might be best to do them one at a time. That's something I hadnt considered. You can see the dice by hovering over the roll, but its a limitation of roll20 that you cant display the individual dice in a roll in a sheet's rolltemplate. You have to use inline roll syntax (the square brackets [[ ]]) for rolls, and there's no way to reveal them individually. So that's the best that can be done via a sheet (if you want to have a rolltemplate - you could use the /roll syntax but that has many other limitations).  I plan on making an API script for pro subscribers that can bypass these issues, but the sheet has to be usable by free users so couldnt build that sort of thing in.  Another way to get around this is to write a macro for these effects.  I have a player with Killshot (Roll BD 2x and take the larger result, works on any weapon) and Trademark weapon (Reroll 1's, only works on the trademark weapon).  I wrote a few simple macros and put them on his character sheet as token actions.  The killshot one rolls BD 2x and automatically reports the larger of the two.  Trademark rolls BD and automatically re-rolls 1's on the first time.  And the combined one will roll two sets of BD, re-rolling 1's once, and reporting the larger of the two combined v And just like Gigs character sheet, he can use them multiple times to roll 1 BD at a time if he wants.  

Michael D. said: GiGs said: Zoula said: Does it show individual die results? Some things like trademark weapon allow a re-roll of a die, some things allow rerolling all 1's etc. If it can't show what each die was it might be best to do them one at a time. That's something I hadnt considered. You can see the dice by hovering over the roll, but its a limitation of roll20 that you cant display the individual dice in a roll in a sheet's rolltemplate. You have to use inline roll syntax (the square brackets [[ ]]) for rolls, and there's no way to reveal them individually. So that's the best that can be done via a sheet (if you want to have a rolltemplate - you could use the /roll syntax but that has many other limitations).  I plan on making an API script for pro subscribers that can bypass these issues, but the sheet has to be usable by free users so couldnt build that sort of thing in.  Another way to get around this is to write a macro for these effects.  I have a player with Killshot (Roll BD 2x and take the larger result, works on any weapon) and Trademark weapon (Reroll 1's, only works on the trademark weapon).  I wrote a few simple macros and put them on his character sheet as token actions.  The killshot one rolls BD 2x and automatically reports the larger of the two.  Trademark rolls BD and automatically re-rolls 1's on the first time.  And the combined one will roll two sets of BD, re-rolling 1's once, and reporting the larger of the two combined v And just like Gigs character sheet, he can use them multiple times to roll 1 BD at a time if he wants.   Those are good. Writing a custom macro is the best way to handle special cases, generally. 

Is the github code updated GiGs?

I'd be curious to see these macros, how do you handle different amounts of bonus dice? Michael D. said: The killshot one rolls BD 2x and automatically reports the larger of the two.  Trademark rolls BD and automatically re-rolls 1's on the first time.  And the combined one will roll two sets of BD, re-rolling 1's once, and reporting the larger of the two combined v And just like Gigs character sheet, he can use them multiple times to roll 1 BD at a time if he wants.  

Zoula said: I'd be curious to see these macros, how do you handle different amounts of bonus dice? Michael D. said: The killshot one rolls BD 2x and automatically reports the larger of the two.  Trademark rolls BD and automatically re-rolls 1's on the first time.  And the combined one will roll two sets of BD, re-rolling 1's once, and reporting the larger of the two combined v And just like Gigs character sheet, he can use them multiple times to roll 1 BD at a time if he wants.   The macro asks.  I'll see if I can PM them to you

TiaMaster said: Is the github code updated GiGs? It is now. I've also updated the Community campaign.

right side needs more space

Well spotted - just fixed that in my commit to the repository. i'll go and update the gist now.

If you grabbed the code from the gist any time before this post, you;ll want to get it again. I noticed the Mind action roll button wasn't working properly (at some point, i accidentally deleted an } symbol). I've fixed it.

Stupid } symbols.  I swear they have a mind of their own.  Mine are always inviting an extra friend over or going away for no reason.  

What is the +BD number for? I guess I'm just not sure what the need for it is when you already have an Add BD button. If you are gonna change the damage "+" to "+D", you should change the attack "+" to "+A". Does the token have to be selected to send the current roll to the tracker?

Yeah, consistency is key.

TiaMaster said: What is the +BD number for? I guess I'm just not sure what the need for it is when you already have an Add BD button. If you are gonna change the damage "+" to "+D", you should change the attack "+" to "+A". Does the token have to be selected to send the current roll to the tracker? The +BD is in case you have an attack or weapon that  always  gets bonus dice added. I dont know if there are any such things canonically, but I know gms will create them. The reason I change the + to +D was to distinguish between flat bonuses and bonus dice. Having just two +s there would be confusing. For attacks, it doesn't need more description, it's pretty clear what it must be, but having +A is a pretty good idea anyway. I just submitted it. That's the last change before things go live this week. They should be processed by roll20 sometime tomorrow, and appear in your campaigns later that day or Tuesday.

We're playing tomorrow night, could it potentially happen partyway through a session?

No, it would only happen on a load of a campaign page. So if someone disconnect midsession, and reconnect, it could happen to them, but its pretty unlikely. Sheets get upgraded every week and I've never seen a comment on the forums of anyone experiencing this.

I think this is going to be fun... upgrading.  I'm very much looking forward to this! :D

I've added a section on the rolltemplate to the wiki page. This should let you make your own templates, though for actual rolls you are better off using the built-in roll buttons.  One thing that might be useful to those of you who like to print extra information with your attacks:  Hacking the Attack Template . This tells you how to use the Attack Note field in Weapons and Powers to sneak in some extra information on print out. You can create your own sections just like the Default Roll template, and have them printed out with the attack roll.

Hey the image you have on the Hacking the Atack Template is too small for me to see what somethings are like the dots. Are they asterisks? Can you maybe make that line copyable?

They are probably }} and {{ symbols - that section is meant for people who are already comfortable making their own rolltemplates and are familiar with the code.  I'll see about making it clearer, later. The submit has been accepted, so the sheet should be live or will be soon.

One thing I didn't think about until messing with things and updating just now is that while I know this is meant for PCs, enemies with more or less wounds may seem to be an issue. 

You can edit the derived ratings (move, run, shock, wounds) by clicking the derived ratings header.  So you can update your villains side for lower wounds by typing in negative modifiers.

GiGs said: Since you're a Pro user, there's an easy way to get an automatic attack listing for each character. Install the Universal Chat Menu script and put this macro in your universal macro list and set as a token action: !chatmenu @{selected|character_id} @{selected|character_name} --title:Attacks --repeating_attacks|Attack_Name_Full|Attack --title:Damage --repeating_attacks|Attack_Name_Full|damage Then you'll be able to select any character on the map, click the macro, and you'll get a chat menu whispered to you (so it doesnt clutter up chat for others), with a button for every attack and damage, properly named. Here's two characters I tried it with: (This is using the default roll template. I should add a rolltemplate for it, to make the buttons more fitting.) You can also use this script to get a list of buttons for all skills and stats, too, laid out however you like. Gig's:  So...testing is running behind, don't have to leave hotel and go to lab for another hour or so.  Messing around with the new sheet this morning, updating my villains for Saturday, etc.  Tried testing this again now that the new sheet has launched.  I get the below error message.  I deleted and copy/paste the macro back in, and I verified that the script was installed and running on my game. Any thoughts?

It was brought to my attention that one of the characters in my game has a broken Toughness. This is actual the Lockhart character I imported and I checked and it has the same issue. He has Str 8, but even with no Armor entries his Toughness is listed as 12.  Edit - which I see now can be altered with the above mentioned Derived Attributes

Other weirdness now that it's live.  Abilities don't seem to be working.  I commonly write ability macros to handle things like player powers (previously mentioned killshot) or villain effects (fear) and make them as token actions.  Sometimes they roll die, other times they just output text to the chat window to remind players of effects like fear, or immune to poison, or what ever.  The powers are not showing up as token actions. So...I did some diagnostics.  My tokens are typically set up as "general" tokens.  By that, I mean that for villains I'll have the token not tied to the character sheet.  I do this because I don't want a wound applied to 1 to be applied to all.  So, here is a gospog as an example.  Note that there is no token action for Fear. Here it is after I tie it to the Gospog to the character sheet.  Note that fear is now an option.  Also, the chat attack button now works. So, my question is, if I go tie all of the villain tokens to a character through the "represents character" dropdown box.  Doesn't that mean that any time I apply a wound to 1 it affects all?

Never mind.  I'm an ID10T.  So many changes I cornfused myself.

Oh, uh on the cosm dropdown it says Tharkhold instead of Tharkold. :)

Michael D. said: Never mind.  I'm an ID10T.  So many changes I cornfused myself. LOL. What does the Fear macro do?

Michael D. said: GiGs said: Since you're a Pro user, there's an easy way to get an automatic attack listing for each character. Install the Universal Chat Menu script and put this macro in your universal macro list and set as a token action: !chatmenu @{selected|character_id} @{selected|character_name} --title:Attacks --repeating_attacks|Attack_Name_Full|Attack --title:Damage --repeating_attacks|Attack_Name_Full|damage Then you'll be able to select any character on the map, click the macro, and you'll get a chat menu whispered to you (so it doesnt clutter up chat for others), with a button for every attack and damage, properly named. Here's two characters I tried it with: (This is using the default roll template. I should add a rolltemplate for it, to make the buttons more fitting.) You can also use this script to get a list of buttons for all skills and stats, too, laid out however you like. Gig's:  So...testing is running behind, don't have to leave hotel and go to lab for another hour or so.  Messing around with the new sheet this morning, updating my villains for Saturday, etc.  Tried testing this again now that the new sheet has launched.  I get the below error message.  I deleted and copy/paste the macro back in, and I verified that the script was installed and running on my game. Any thoughts? WAIT..you're telling me UCM will work with this sheet?  I just install the script and it works? (besides the above error) Also, you are sure there is a character sheet associated with that one?

Michael D. said: So, my question is, if I go tie all of the villain tokens to a character through the "represents character" dropdown box.  Doesn't that mean that any time I apply a wound to 1 it affects all? Duplicate -in the Edit window- and rename.  Are you keeping a compendium, more or less, in your game, or are you constructing each bad guy for each adventure for which you need them?  For me, I set up a "folder" in my Journal, near the bottom, for potential recurring baddies, and I Duplicate them as I need them, and then rename each one.  When I click on my token for that Character, of course I can go select the name specific to that token, and it works separately of all others.

hi just report a bug or two on the new character sheets. 1-when you click on a weapon, the formula launches a D20 and not a D6 and doesn't even ask how many he has to add. Euh, no, i understand why. If i click on the name of the weapon, it roll skill. i must click on damage ! not really cool. 2-Some descriptive texts on the previous sheets don't match in the new ones. 3-finally, the ammunition score does not put itself in the summary line, it is necessary to enter it even Otherwise, it's a nice visual improvement. Nice effort!

I use the token bars to track wounds (red) and shock (green) for almost all of my NPCs. The character sheet is only a holder for the stats and the rolls, which don't change no matter how many instances of the token are on the table. I also generally use the blue bar to track possibilities and/or number of NPCs in a group. It works really well for me. Just make sure that the token that gets linked to the sheet does not also have wounds and shock from the sheet tracking on the token.

Michael D. said: GiGs said: Since you're a Pro user, there's an easy way to get an automatic attack listing for each character. Install the Universal Chat Menu script and put this macro in your universal macro list and set as a token action: !chatmenu @{selected|character_id} @{selected|character_name} --title:Attacks --repeating_attacks|Attack_Name_Full|Attack --title:Damage --repeating_attacks|Attack_Name_Full|damage Then you'll be able to select any character on the map, click the macro, and you'll get a chat menu whispered to you (so it doesnt clutter up chat for others), with a button for every attack and damage, properly named. Here's two characters I tried it with: (This is using the default roll template. I should add a rolltemplate for it, to make the buttons more fitting.) You can also use this script to get a list of buttons for all skills and stats, too, laid out however you like. Gig's:  So...testing is running behind, don't have to leave hotel and go to lab for another hour or so.  Messing around with the new sheet this morning, updating my villains for Saturday, etc.  Tried testing this again now that the new sheet has launched.  I get the below error message.  I deleted and copy/paste the macro back in, and I verified that the script was installed and running on my game. Any thoughts? Do you have a character selected when you run the script? Can you post the macro you are using?  And as Tiamaster asks, do you have the token's Represents field set up properly?

Zoula said: It was brought to my attention that one of the characters in my game has a broken Toughness. This is actual the Lockhart character I imported and I checked and it has the same issue. He has Str 8, but even with no Armor entries his Toughness is listed as 12.  Edit - which I see now can be altered with the above mentioned Derived Attributes Weird, for some reason its assumed his armour is 4. Is it fixed by altering the dropdown under Derived?

Michael D. said: Never mind.  I'm an ID10T.  So many changes I cornfused myself. It happens to us all :)

Richard B. said: hi just report a bug or two on the new character sheets. 1-when you click on a weapon, the formula launches a D20 and not a D6 and doesn't even ask how many he has to add. Euh, no, i understand why. If i click on the name of the weapon, it roll skill. i must click on damage ! not really cool. 2-Some descriptive texts on the previous sheets don't match in the new ones. 3-finally, the ammunition score does not put itself in the summary line, it is necessary to enter it even Otherwise, it's a nice visual improvement. Nice effort! Oh yes, i forgot to mention the ammo thing. At present it limits what you put in then ammo box to what you've set as a maximum, but you have to set that yourself. I've just realised I could have done that more clearly and will do so next weak (it doesnt involve changing any attributes). Regarding point 2: can you be specific? What changes have changed? Regarding 1: yes, if you click in the name, it makes an attack roll, and click on damage it makes a damage roll. Sorry if that wast clear.

TiaMaster said: WAIT..you're telling me UCM will work with this sheet?  I just install the script and it works? (besides the above error) Also, you are sure there is a character sheet associated with that one? UCM will work with every sheet (so long as the roll buttons are set up properly). It's just a matter of figuring out the attribute and roll button names.

More images that are off Bonus die not fitting. Now that is a screenshot from my computer, but my player who was actually making the roll on his character on his own computer said it looked fine. So I dunno. Don't know if there's anything else than can be done, but just letting you know. And yes, we fixed his armor from Derived 

Oh, is there a way to have macros formatted in the Torg template you're using instead of using &{template:default} ?