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[5e Shaped] Version 8+

1492724754
Kryx
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Tim said: I'd argue for the order being Offence, Utility, Defence, Equipment - since that's the order of how likely you are to be interacting with those sections in combat Agreed.
1492736217
keithcurtis
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Kryx said: keithcurtis said: I don't see why you should. It would be a catch all for things that have active, programmatic abilities. Equipment would just be things like 50' rope and 10' pole. Items would be things with rolls or rules attached. Equipment: "the necessary items for a particular purpose.", "the implements used in an operation or activity". Item: "an individual article or unit, especially one that is part of a list, collection, or set." By english definitions your options should be reversed. (It would match Option 2 above, but renaming Inventory to Items). 2 general categories (Equipment & Inventory/Items) and 1 specific category (Defense) doesn't make much sense imo. Option 1 and Option 3 have more defined organizational structures that more clearly identify the type of things that belong in each section. Yeah, I was just trying to go for the connotations that D&D players have developed for the words. You buy mundane stuff from an equipment list, but the things that do cool or complex actions are found in a magic item table. But I'm sure whatever you come up with will be workable. I don't actually pay a lot of attention to the group labels on the right hand column any more, so eventually it will just be mental "muscle memory" to decide where on the sheet to look. 
Tim said: I agree that there's probably a good use-case for breaking up the behaviour into "I want to hurt something" vs. "I want to help or heal" vs. "I just want to look at all the other random stuff I'm carrying", which makes the offence/defence/utility/equipment a decent choice. Grouping offence and utility together potentially makes the user hunt through weapons when they're looking for potions, for example. I'd argue for the order being Offence, Utility, Defence, Equipment - since that's the order of how likely you are to be interacting with those sections in combat, but that's minor. I agree with everything said here. Just wanted to chime in.
1492746423

Edited 1492746522
Yeah, that seems legit. ↑
Kryx said: As part of  #168: Expand Equipment I've revamped armor and update equipment to match the newer format. I'm now looking at changing "Attacks" to encompass weapons, homebrew shotguns that use saving throws, healing potions, DMG bombs, vials of acid, ball bearings, wands of paralysis, etc. Therefore the current organizational structure is not appropriate. I think there is value in having "do stuff" (Attacks) be separate from "have stuff" (Equipment). However if that divide in the equipment is maintained I can't decide how to rename the "Attacks" section. Should I use this organizational structure? What should I name "Attacks" in this organizational design? Should I name it "Equipment" and instead rename the current equipment to "mundane equipment"? Just my 2 cents here, but I think you are starting to down a rabbit hole here. Why would you want to put healing potions, wands, etc. in attacks in the first place? Is it because that section has the functionality that you need for clickable actions for equipment? If so, why not add functionality to the equipment (or other) sections? I think changing the attacks section is getting pretty far from the original sheet and renaming it is not going to help that. Equipment belongs in the equipment section of the sheet even if it has spell-like effects or whatever. The exception or course being armor and attacks, which have there own sections. Stick to styling that matches the paper sheet, just add the funtion where it should be.
1492764971

Edited 1492765131
Kryx
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There are some posts above that discuss your questions, but I'll try to provide a concise response: Shaped sheet design intent: The goal of matching the paper sheet isn't to precisely mirror the UI of the paper sheet. The goal is to maintain the overall intent while providing the best user experience for the web. There are already a myriad of differences. For example the paper sheet has "Attacks & Spellcasting" while those sections are different on my sheet. Or the paper sheet has "Equipment" which covers both armor and normal equipment (by only writing the name). So the current Shaped already doesn't mirror the paper sheet as a result of the above stated goal. Naming Convention:  We currently have a section called "Armor" and that section covers the current behavior of armor reasonably well, but it doesn't cover the cases of unarmored defense or other defensive items such as ring of protection or the magical robes well at all. Now those items are not armor so adding them to a section named "Armor" is unintuitive for a user. So through the recent discussion on this thread I believe that naming sections by their function ("Defense") instead of their components ("Armor, Unarmored Defense, and Protection items") provides a much more clear intent for what belongs in that section while also making it more clear to the user which section they'd likely reference on their turn based on their goals for that turn. Simiarly "Attacks" is a very narrowly scoped name that only fits things like Weapons, Alchemist's Fire, and Acid Flasks. However it does not cover cases like Ball Bearings, Bombs from the DMG, Artificer (Alchemist) bombs, or Homebrew weapons that use saving throws (Shotguns) as those things do not make an attack. Therefore the name "Attacks" is not reflective of the role that those items take. "Offense" captures that function. TL;DR: Shaped doesn't mirror the paper sheet, but focuses on design intent and user experience for the web. Section names matter.
1492790877
keithcurtis
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Curious about (once the issue is resolved and decisions are set) how will this affect equipment dragged in from the compendium? Will armor "know" to go into the defense subsection, or will the user need to decide? For instance, spells will do some amount of self-correction. A 3rd level spell dragged into a second level slot will move to the proper place after a moment. Will there be some similar behavior for the new "All the things I'm carrying" section? And forgive me if you've addressed this (there's been a lot bandied about), but could a spell be dragged into this revised section, rather than going into the spellcasting section? To cover things like a wand of Fireballs, which doesn't draw from the characters spell slots, but does have a different structure programatically from armor or weapons.
1492795734

Edited 1492795835
What would be really cool is to drag a Wand of Fireball to inventory and then be able to drag the spell on to it and then set uses and have the ?{charges} and it spend uses on the spell and set the new uses. This could be really awesome for magical weapons that have several spells on it like Staff of Healing.
1492798412
Kryx
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API Scripter
keithcurtis said: Curious about (once the issue is resolved and decisions are set) how will this affect equipment dragged in from the compendium? Will armor "know" to go into the defense subsection, or will the user need to decide? For instance, spells will do some amount of self-correction. A 3rd level spell dragged into a second level slot will move to the proper place after a moment. Will there be some similar behavior for the new "All the things I'm carrying" section? Assuming I go with the Offense/Utility/Defense/Equipment route: Armor -> Defense will have some changes to accomodate other uses, but it'll still import from the compendium. Attacks -> Offense is very similar to how it previously, but will not require an attack. Equipment will still remain equipment - everything will still function in the exact same way except perhaps removing the forced rolls on numbers in the text. The main functional differences will be the utility section and the Defense section's design. I could possibly force weapon attacks from equipment to go to Offense, but that seems a bit unnecessary. keithcurtis said: And forgive me if you've addressed this (there's been a lot bandied about), but could a spell be dragged into this revised section, rather than going into the spellcasting section? To cover things like a wand of Fireballs, which doesn't draw from the characters spell slots, but does have a different structure programatically from armor or weapons. Spells will always belong in the spells section do to that section's complexity. However in this case it actually makes total sense - the item isn't casting the spell, it allows you to cast the spell. Once #375: Spell uses is done then spells with uses won't subtract from the spell slots which will help this area.
1492804602
keithcurtis
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Kryx said: Spells will always belong in the spells section do to that section's complexity. However in this case it actually makes total sense - the item isn't casting the spell, it allows you to cast the spell. Once #375: Spell uses is done then spells with uses won't subtract from the spell slots which will help this area. Sweet. Do you envision that as a toggle that has some sort of visual cue?Currently I put a code in the name of the spell, such as "Hellish Rebuke-T" for the Tiefling ability.
1492808239
Kryx
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keithcurtis said: Sweet. Do you envision that as a toggle that has some sort of visual cue?Currently I put a code in the name of the spell, such as "Hellish Rebuke-T" for the Tiefling ability. I envision it'll look very similar to uses for other areas.
Kryx said: TL;DR: Shaped doesn't mirror the paper sheet, but focuses on design intent and user experience for the web. Section names matter. Very well. I'm excited for the sheet to progress (especially in the equipment section). We trust in you to make it familiar and accessible enough for all players. These "fear of change" posts are not meant to be negative so much as a way to help guide to a common solution (as was done with roll templates not to long ago). Keep up the great work, Kryx. Your sheet is the sole reason I run (and play) D&D5E on Roll20.
1492982274

Edited 1492982539
Kryx
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I've spent a fair amount of the weekend working on this revamp and have made some discoveries/changes. While trying to support some magic items (Ring of Protection, Robe of the Archmagi) I've come to realization that many equipment items will have various bonuses or penalities (modifiers). I originally tried to store all of these in those sections, but that becomes difficult to organize and maintain. I decided to refactor the "Bonuses & Penalties" section to account for these kind of bonuses which apply in many places. I've created the "Modifiers" section which is a collection of items that can modify various sections. These could be used for spells, class features, equipment, and more. Here is a sneak peak: This will replace the current "Bonuses & Penalties" section. I hope to be able to link a modifer with equipment so if I toggle off a piece of equipment it'll also toggle off a modifier, but that'll be a future enhancement. Since "Defense" no longer has saving throws I've refactored it back to "Armor". It now holds Light Armor, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Shields, and Unarmored Defense. Still a lot of work before I can release 12.0.0.
Very nice. An easy place to apply tempory "buffs"!
1492988775
keithcurtis
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How much character editing do you envision to bring current characters up to code? :) This looks like a lot of things will need to be shuffled around and toggled. (Not a complaint, just asking for a heads up)
1492989037
Kryx
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There is very little data migration so far. What I mean by this: During earlier upgrades I converted the spells section to 10 different sections. Or in other versions I've totally redone attacks, damage, etc. The data migration is about 1-2% of what that required so far. Changing from global bonuses -> modifiers will require most things to recalculate that doesn't require data migration and potential data loss and it does happen quite fast.
That is absolutely amazing! I'll be using that section a lot, I'd imagine. Things like Hunter's Mark would also be perfect in that section, as well as things like the Archery fighting style. I'm really looking forward to 12.0.0 now.
1493032714
Kryx
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Hunter's Mark would be a bad example imo. It only applies to certain targets if you're used the spell. Managing it via a spell repeat is a much better case.
1493033338
Spell Repeat is great, is there a way to do it without scrolling back to the last time you cast it?
1493034037

Edited 1493034068
Kryx
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API Scripter
You can reference a spell repeat in a similar way as the spell. %{NAME|repeating_spell3_ID_repeat}. You can create little buttons to use it like the documentation does for sneak attack.
1493034259
Thank you, Kryx. Will do.
Is there currently any way to track limited-use class resources in a token bar? For instance, I have my Warlock's spell slots tracked in bar 3 of their respective token, because there is an attribute assigned to that. Could I do the same thing with features like Barbarian's Rage, Bard's Inspiration, etc., that are only tracked within the class features section? I'd like to tie it to the sheet so when it auto-decrements and auto-refills via the API script, that is reflected on the token bar. I've found a crude workaround using another API script, but it's not ideal. Thanks!
1493043000
Kryx
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Matthew E. said: Is there currently any way to track limited-use class resources in a token bar? For instance, I have my Warlock's spell slots tracked in bar 3 of their respective token, because there is an attribute assigned to that. Could I do the same thing with features like Barbarian's Rage, Bard's Inspiration, etc., that are only tracked within the class features section? I'd like to tie it to the sheet so when it auto-decrements and auto-refills via the API script, that is reflected on the token bar. I've found a crude workaround using another API script, but it's not ideal. Thanks! Nope. Roll20 removed repeating sections from being accessible from token bars about 8 months ago. :(
Kryx said: This will replace the current "Bonuses & Penalties" section. I hope to be able to link a modifer with equipment so if I toggle off a piece of equipment it'll also toggle off a modifier, but that'll be a future enhancement. Since "Defense" no longer has saving throws I've refactored it back to "Armor". It now holds Light Armor, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Shields, and Unarmored Defense. Still a lot of work before I can release 12.0.0. I really love this. Your global bonuses section was the reason I convinced our group to go with your sheet when it came out. I was unhappy it moved to the options section but am looking forward to it being back on the core page.
1493043369
Kryx
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HLazar said: I really love this. I knew you'd be happy for this one. I suspect it'll do most of the heavy lifting for your suggestion that I morphed into conditions.
Kryx said: You can reference a spell repeat in a similar way as the spell. %{NAME|repeating_spell3_ID_repeat}. You can create little buttons to use it like the documentation does for sneak attack. Is it possible to have spell repeats not check for spell slots remaining? Our group's ranger used his last spell slot to cast Hunter's Mark. It would not let him use the repeat, as he was out of the slots of that spell level.
1493088274
Mark S.
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Before reporting this issue, I was wondering if anyone knew what this was about... "Sheet Worker ERROR: Unable to find valid character with ID -KiXzEks5LvXfR-KHUWD"
1493088797
Mark S.
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Marketplace Creator
Mark S. said: Before reporting this issue, I was wondering if anyone knew what this was about... "Sheet Worker ERROR: Unable to find valid character with ID -KiXzEks5LvXfR-KHUWD" This may be an issue related to the monsters that came with Storm King's Thunder. It does not appear to be affecting character sheets so feel free to disregard.
1493094815
Sorry if it's been asked already, but Google isn't helping me search for it. How do you handle when a character has spells from a non-spellcasting class source, like racial spells or things like a Totem Barbarian's random spells or a Monk's spells. I'm having difficulty adding these into NPC and PC sheets, as I don't want them grouped up with the other spells if they don't take slots the same way.
1493103054
Kryx
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Sheet Author
API Scripter
John S. said: Is it possible to have spell repeats not check for spell slots remaining? Our group's ranger used his last spell slot to cast Hunter's Mark. It would not let him use the repeat, as he was out of the slots of that spell level. I'm not sure I totally understand your question. The repeat needs to query the user for higher level, but it shouldn't reduce slots via the companion script. If it is reducing slots then it's an easy fix for me to do.
1493103144
Kryx
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Sheet Author
API Scripter
Mark S. said: This may be an issue related to the monsters that came with Storm King's Thunder. It does not appear to be affecting character sheets so feel free to disregard. I have SKT so feel free to report an issue if it's reproducible.
1493103287
Kryx
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API Scripter
Joss G. said: Sorry if it's been asked already, but Google isn't helping me search for it. How do you handle when a character has spells from a non-spellcasting class source, like racial spells or things like a Totem Barbarian's random spells or a Monk's spells. I'm having difficulty adding these into NPC and PC sheets, as I don't want them grouped up with the other spells if they don't take slots the same way. Spells belong in the spell section. The situations you mention will be supported via  #375: Spell uses with the typical uses that appear in other sections.
1493108518

Edited 1493108584
Jakob
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Bonuses & Penalties sounds pretty cool. Also opens up the possibility of toggling buffs on and off via macros.
How do I go about creating a macro for Mystic's Psionic Resilience? "Starting at 3rd level, your Psionic energy grants you extraordinary fortitude. At the start of each of your turns, you gain temporary HP equal to your Int modifier (min. 0), so long as you have at least 1HP." I want the player to be able to press the button and have his temp_hp change in the character sheet. Thanks!
1493154330
Kryx
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There is no way to do that without API. Jakob has a script for something like that.
1493154549
keithcurtis
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You could probably manage that with CharSetAttr. IIRC, it allows math functions.
Kryx said: John S. said: Is it possible to have spell repeats not check for spell slots remaining? Our group's ranger used his last spell slot to cast Hunter's Mark. It would not let him use the repeat, as he was out of the slots of that spell level. I'm not sure I totally understand your question. The repeat needs to query the user for higher level, but it shouldn't reduce slots via the companion script. If it is reducing slots then it's an easy fix for me to do. It is not reducing slots, but it wont let me cast if I'm out of slots.
1493162110

Edited 1493162161
Kryx
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John S. said: It is not reducing slots, but it wont let me cast if I'm out of slots. Casting restrictions are done via the script. Normally you'd need to open an issue for Lucian to solve, but I believe the script should never try to use the slot which I need to fix on my end by not sending certain data. If you can verify that it removes a slot if you have 1 or more available that'd be helpful.
OK, did a repeatable test. Updated sheet to latest (only shows v11.5.0, but I'm pretty sure its actually v11.6.0). Updated script to latest (v10.0.1). Create a level 7 Cleric. Give him the Spirit Guardians spell. Cast Spirit Guardians 3 times at level 3 to empty his 3rd level spell slots. Click Spirit Guardians repeat button for continued effects. Only level 4 slot is available because you are out of level 3 slots.
1493190195
Kryx
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That's a totally separate issue. Please open an issue for it.
Issue opened. Thanks.
1493286142
Zym
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Sheet Author
Am I correct, in adding data.js as a new script, and disabling 5e-monsters.js and 5e-spells.js ? I am just finishing up a campaign and would like to update manually to the latest sheet and companion script. I've added the sheet v11.5.0 and companion sheet v10.0.1, I am only getting an error in my API console when I enable the data.js script                                                                                                      -5e-monsters.js and 5e-spells.js are disabled when this occurs. "SyntaxError: Unexpected identifier"
1493286555
data.js? You'll need to post a bit more of the error message ...
1493286783
Kryx
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API Scripter
You'll have to setup your own data files for the companion script to work. You can see the companion script for the format of the SRD data. If your custom data is not working you'll need to provide the full console as that is not enough information to understand what has gone wrong.
1493288051

Edited 1493302753
Zym
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Sheet Author
Okay, makes sense. How do I go about finding the full console error? Resolved.
Is passive perception on the sheet anywhere for monsters, or do I calculate it manually when needed?
1493432282
Robert D.
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Sheet Author
Ha! :) Sorry, I giggle every time someone other than me asks about this. You pretty much have to do it manually, unless they've added a feature I missed. :)
1493454585

Edited 1493455017
Zym
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Technically you would have to make an alteration to the API companion script so that it calculates a Perception Modifier based on the character and adds it to Attributes and Abilities. Its a pretty difficult task if not currently impossible from the way the skill on the sheet is generated. Then you could create a macro to show this to the GM. Its something that the developer of the Character Sheet is not currently going to add. Seems like quite a requested feature though. Currently its done manually.
1493454726

Edited 1493455009
Kryx
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Passive skills are calculated if you turn it on in the settings page. @{arcana_passive} @{perception_passive} @{stealth_passive}