A New Light - Bug Thread - Updated Dynamic Lighting and Fog of War

Aimé,  do you want them to be able to move into that space at all?

The "Wall Hack" seems to be caused by where the game determines the source of "sight" to come from. While collision detection is based on the center of the Token, sight collision detection seems to come from the edge of the token. As the edge of a token crosses the lighting line (possible because the token doesn't collide with the wall until the center hits it) vision is permitted from the edge of the token which, being across the line, allows vision across the line. My speculation was that this was to allow a larger token to see around objects that are only partially obscuring it, however my experiments have revealed this is not the case. The token's sight still originates from its center, but for whatever reason the edge of the token is used to decide whether a token is on one side of a lighting wall or the other. I'm wondering if this is perhaps the result of a half implemented feature? Regardless, the solution is to use the token's center to decide which side of a wall the token is on with respect to vision. This is, in my opinion, the most significant issue with the new lighting system at this time, and should be top priority to fix. At the moment, it makes using the new lighting in actual play impossible for a large majority of campaigns. Even some form of "patch" for this bug, something to enforce the lighting lines even if it doesn't solve the underlying problem, would be okay so that it's at least possible to use. On the *bright* side though, the new lighting system performs a lot better than the old one. My current campaign has a map with a lot of walls and lighting, and it is painfully slow. Hopefully the "Wall Hack" will be dealt with before I bring my players to this map.

Aimé said:  - Wall-hack bug ( Dragging a token next to a Dynamic Lighting barrier can result in vision past the barrier)  also occurs through double-layered barriers What you were trying to do: This is because the edge of the token still passes the second wall before the center of the token hits the first wall. Since the center hitting the wall blocks movement, but the edge  passing the wall allows vision, the second wall needs to be at least half a unit from the first wall to actually prevent vision. In a square map, with walls (drawn on the map) that are at least one unit wide, it is possible to create functional lighting lines by placing the secondary lines half a unit inward from all the primary lines. The players will be able to see the "weird walls" if they move their token too close, but you can prevent them from seeing beyond the barrier as long as your secondary lines are far enough past the primary lines that their tokens collide before the edges pass the secondary lines.

Кейткуртис сказал: Марс К. сказал: Добрый день всем. Я очень жалею, если у меня есть вопросы, которые у него есть. Может, кто-нибудь может объяснить этот эффект в динамических тенях? Если вы используете тени вручную, все в порядке? Отображение видимой высоты объекта. Игроки выглядят не очень хорошо. Хотелось бы узнать, что за это отвечает. Спасибо заранее за вашу помощь. Это оптический обман. Все линии видимости исходят от зрителя. Там, где они пересекают край объекта, отображается край обзора. Перспективы и точки сходства. Показать действительно выявленные области с прямой видимости. Thank you very much for your response

Given the issue seems to be that vision is from the edges of tokens, and collision is from the centre of tokens, why not make collision based on the edge of tokens? Sure, it requires a little more processing, but I was coding stuff to handle sprites in BASIC in the 1980s when I was 10 years old.... Surely this can be managed with professional coders and modern systems!!! It is currently very game breaking since players can literally see through walls!!!

Interestingly, Update on Drop would alleviate the see thru walls thing, as long as your DL lines are beyond the Token edge once it is dropped.  But that seems to be a fleeting feature that still has not been added.

It would be great if the Devs update this so the token edges are referenced to both the vision and blocking. Using the center token pixel causes so many other issues, especially with non-Medium-sized tokens.

An update is required.

What you were trying to do: &nbsp;I am currently a player in Out of the Abyss but usually am my groups GM and helped the new GM setup so I have all the details.&nbsp; When players with nightvision are on the first map of Velkynelve if the players zoom out to 10% they can see the entire map. Up to about 40% they can partially see the map. Beyond that zoom level everything works as expected. We are only using the built in zoom not the browser zoom What happened: &nbsp; Steps to Reproduce: Login to campaign and zoom in and out while owning a token with nightvision Browser &amp; OS info: Chrome&nbsp; Version 83.0.4103.61 (Official Build) (64-bit), Win 10 Is WebGL supported by your browser? Game Link: &nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/7558304/out-of-the-abyss" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/7558304/out-of-the-abyss</a> Game Settings No Map Settings Are you using Legacy or Updated? Updated Were you using Explorer Mode or not? Unsure off hand but I think not Were you using Daylight Mode or not? No Token Settings What kinds of light and vision were utilized on tokens? Updated Nightvision (bright light, low light, night vision, regular vision) Do you have Hardware Acceleration turned On or Off in your browser or system: Not Sure but happening on all players browsers and OS including Macs with Safari

Mike L. said: Given the issue seems to be that vision is from the edges of tokens, and collision is from the centre of tokens, why not make collision based on the edge of tokens? Sure, it requires a little more processing, but I was coding stuff to handle sprites in BASIC in the 1980s when I was 10 years old.... Surely this can be managed with professional coders and modern systems!!! It is currently very game breaking since players can literally see through walls!!! The issue with that solution is that it would prevent a token from being placed in a tile that is partially obstructed by a wall. This may be desirable, but it isn't the way the old system worked, and I would hazard a guess that many users would expect to be able to "squeeze" into those squares considering that they are notional representations, not literal ones, people aren't really 5 feet wide. I would prefer tokens still be able to move so that their edges are "off the map" as it were, since this allows players to pass through logically passable gaps. Of course, an option to adjust a tokens "hit box"would be even better! Bob P. said: Interestingly, Update on Drop would alleviate the see thru walls thing, as long as your DL lines are beyond the Token edge once it is dropped.&nbsp; But that seems to be a fleeting feature that still has not been added. This would only be so for maps with generally square shapes. If the wall runs along edges of tiles, then yes, update on drop would mean you would help. But any line that travels in a curve, or a diagonal, or just passes through part of a tile, will still be seen through as the token will be centered on the tile, and therefore part of it will cross the wall.

I hope vision is not kept as calculated from the token edge. That is going to make a lot of maps unusable for the new dynamic lighting, including a lot of the free ones from pro subscription.

The vision / cast light starting from the edge of the token has also caused light numbers to mean slightly different things. A 30 bright / 30 dim large token (such as a bonfire) casts light further under the new system than the old system, presumably from the distance being calculated from the edge instead of the center of the token. As for collision detection / where to calculate sight, they need to be the same, as they were in the old system. Under the old system, a player could move a token through gaps smaller than the token and place tokens in acute corners. Moving collision detection to the outside edge would remove that longstanding functionality. Moving the vision source to the center would keep feature parity with the older system (and I would have thought be faster to calculate).

I've abandoned the new lighting system entirely.&nbsp; The wall hacks completely ruin gameplay.&nbsp; In theory it is a much easier way to handle lights and darkvision for users, but the way it is implemented is fundamentally broken.

After one session with the new dynamic lighting I've gone back to using the old version.&nbsp; Players seeing through walls when their token overlaps them makes the new system completely unusable for game play.&nbsp;

Have to agree with the above. This bug makes the map content I have purchased and that which I've created unusable. Please, please, please can we get a fix to this before the old dynamic lighting is removed.

Nix said: There are a ton more reports of ADL making pages freeze in the " stuck on loading screen " thread. I really hope Roll20 reverts the Thursday changes before my game tonight, hah. Guess I'll learn how to use the old fog of war options. Is there any official comment about this problem so far? How is the status quo with this annoying bug ?

We need informations from Roll20.

Al Pacino said: We need informations from Roll20. Yes, I've decided to unfollow this thread. Will return when obvious changes are made.

North said: Al Pacino said: We need informations from Roll20. Yes, I've decided to unfollow this thread. Will return when obvious changes are made They will present a video tomorrow on Twtich related to the light system.......

What time? Can it be watched after the broadcast?

Vision from edge of token is TREMENDOUS improvement vs old system (if implemented fully and correctly). What we need - is implementation of update on drop.&nbsp; Before it was nightmare to make sure that players can see somewhat in dungeons with narrow corridors. You stand before a corner and for some reason can't see anything around that corner.&nbsp; I play Pathfinder 1st edition and with both hands vote to keep vision from token edges.

Craig said: What time? Can it be watched after the broadcast? Learning Roll20 returns tomorrow on the&nbsp; Dungeons &amp; Dragons &nbsp;Twitch channel. Carlos and Victoria will be turning on all the Dynamic Lighting! If you missed them last time, you can watch the replay right here →&nbsp; <a href="http://roll20.io/LearningRoll20EP5" rel="nofollow">http://roll20.io/LearningRoll20EP5</a> # LearningRoll20 &nbsp; # TTRPG

What you were trying to do: Checking out Dynamic Lighting, only to see that Ctrl L to see through a tokens view still see objects in GM layer What happened: &nbsp;(Screen shots are useful here!) I can still see things in the GM layer while using CTR L to look through a token, even though it was stated as fixed on the first page. Steps to Reproduce: Put a token and use the UDL with something in the GM layer and use CTR L to see through the token's vision. Browser &amp; OS info: Windows 10 and Chrome both using latest version Is WebGL supported by your browser? Please visit&nbsp; <a href="https://webglreport.com/" rel="nofollow">https://webglreport.com/</a> &nbsp;and copy/paste the WebGL1 report from there. Game Link: &nbsp;(The URL when you're looking at your Game Details page) <a href="https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/6974609/cave-of-bomnt" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/6974609/cave-of-bomnt</a> Game Settings Was anything changed from default? Nope. Used the new lighting Map Settings Are you using Legacy or Updated? Updated Were you using Explorer Mode or not? No Were you using Daylight Mode or not? No Token Settings What kinds of light and vision were utilized on tokens? (bright light, low light, night vision, regular vision) Night Vision Do you have Hardware Acceleration turned On or Off in your browser or system: Yes

One trick to make the system work as it is now, is to draw the light boundaries strictly by the grid using the shift key. This way, when a token is placed on a cell in the grid, it will never overlap the light boundaries.&nbsp; Of course, this does not work for light boundaries that are curved or otherwise not fitting into a grid.&nbsp;

Last friday I dropped all my players into a dungeon I'd spent a lot of time on.&nbsp; First one came in, and every other one got stuck in infinite loading.&nbsp; Tried all sorts of things, but nothing worked. Then, I thought to change the lighting system.&nbsp; I went from the new one to the old one and suddenly everyone could come in.&nbsp; Had to rapidly switch all the lights over, but at least they could all come in and play.&nbsp; Using Chrome on win10.&nbsp; I like a lot of the features of the new light system (in particular the fact that everything you've been in before stays visible, rather than bits of it getting blacked out like the old system does), but not being able to load is a deal breaker.&nbsp; I'm just gonna stop messing with the new one until it's ready for use.

Patrik S. said: One trick to make the system work as it is now, is to draw the light boundaries strictly by the grid using the shift key. This way, when a token is placed on a cell in the grid, it will never overlap the light boundaries.&nbsp; Of course, this does not work for light boundaries that are curved or otherwise not fitting into a grid.&nbsp; That doesn't really help. When you pick up a token, you can still drag it along the light barriers. Also, lots of people hold down alt when dragging their tokens, which allows for non-grid placement.

Allo ?&nbsp; &nbsp;Any good news ?&nbsp;

+1 to fixing the wall-hack bug. I'm trying to "shore up" the walls by adding secondary temporary walls behind the primary walls by that are half of the token width, but this is not sustainable. I have a session starting in a few hours and now have to learn (and practice with) the older system, which I really have never had to use.

Bad time for Roll20 I guess :(

Token vision from the edge while blocking movement from the center makes the new lighting practically unusable. At least we can still use the old system for now.

Comment on the latest YouTube video about dynamic lighting implies the tokens seeing through the wall could be fixed in the upcoming week. Fingers crossed.&nbsp;

The new dynamic lighting does not work *at all* on one of my computers - the map never finishes loading. I filed a bug report a week ago but it hasn't gotten any acknowledgement from staff. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/8780427/unable-to-load-any-maps-with-dynamic-lighting-in-either-chrome-or-firefox#post-8783267" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/8780427/unable-to-load-any-maps-with-dynamic-lighting-in-either-chrome-or-firefox#post-8783267</a>

sorry guys, i'm off the roll20. the current dynamic lighting service is not worth paying for. the token when it plays a pred shows everything behind it, that's a big mistake. I will continue in the free version until the dynamic lighting is stable enough.&nbsp;

If by "Current" you mean "Updated", then that's to be expected. It is an unfinished product and labeled as such. If you want stable dynamic lighting, use legacy for the time being.

This may partially come under "Zooming out with browser zoom, not the VTT zoom, can cause some strange visual issues." but it also occurs using the roll 20 zoom where you get vertical grey/black/transparent lines through map sections, revealing whats there, <a href="https://i.imgur.com/12mz2TG.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://i.imgur.com/12mz2TG.jpg</a> is screen shot.&nbsp; Steps to Reproduce: Muck around zooming or resizing Browser &amp; OS info: Win10, firefox 77 Is WebGL supported by your browser?Yes, report from site below Map Settings&nbsp; Are you using Legacy or Updated? Updated Were you using Explorer Mode or not? No in case of this screen shot, though has in explorer mode at other times. Were you using Daylight Mode or not? Yes in case of this screen shot, not in previous times. Token Settings What kinds of light and vision were utilized on tokens? (bright light, low light, night vision, regular vision) Various. Platform: Win32 Browser User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:77.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/77.0 Context Name: webgl GL Version: WebGL 1.0 Shading Language Version: WebGL GLSL ES 1.0 Vendor: Mozilla Renderer: Mozilla Unmasked Vendor: Google Inc. Unmasked Renderer: ANGLE (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB Direct3D11 vs_5_0 ps_5_0) Antialiasing: Available ANGLE: Yes, D3D9 Major Performance Caveat: No Vertex Shader Max Vertex Attributes: 16 Max Vertex Uniform Vectors: 4095 Max Vertex Texture Image Units: 16 Max Varying Vectors: 30 Best float precision: [-2127, 2127] (23) Transform Feedback Coming in WebGL 2 Rasterizer Aliased Line Width Range: [1, 1] Aliased Point Size Range: [1, 1024] Fragment Shader Max Fragment Uniform Vectors: 1024 Max Texture Image Units: 16 float/int precision: highp/highp Best float precision: [-2127, 2127] (23) Framebuffer Max Color Buffers: 8 RGBA Bits: [8, 8, 8, 8] Depth / Stencil Bits: [24, 8] Max Render Buffer Size: 16384 Max Viewport Dimensions: [32767, 32767] Textures Max Texture Size: 16384 Max Cube Map Texture Size: 16384 Max Combined Texture Image Units: 32 Max Anisotropy: 16 Uniform Buffers Coming in WebGL 2 Supported Extensions: ANGLE_instanced_arrays EXT_blend_minmax EXT_color_buffer_half_float EXT_float_blend EXT_frag_depth EXT_shader_texture_lod EXT_sRGB EXT_texture_compression_bptc EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic OES_element_index_uint OES_standard_derivatives OES_texture_float OES_texture_float_linear OES_texture_half_float OES_texture_half_float_linear OES_vertex_array_object WEBGL_color_buffer_float WEBGL_compressed_texture_s3tc WEBGL_compressed_texture_s3tc_srgb WEBGL_debug_renderer_info WEBGL_debug_shaders WEBGL_depth_texture WEBGL_draw_buffers WEBGL_lose_context To see draft extensions in Firefox, browse to about:config and set webgl.enable-draft-extensions to true.

I am attempting to use Advanced Fog-of-War along with Legacy Dynamic Lighting but the systems says I have too many tokens. There are currently 2 on the map in question and maybe a dozen character tokens on other maps. I have checked my map tiles and made them drawings that have no vision. Is something else going on here?

Sorry guys, what it really means is I have too many grid squares for it to process. For the lighting, I am just surrounding my map with another layer of extra large width lines with an extra large space between it and the original line. That almost always stops even the token corner poking into a diagonal wall. If the player uses the keyboard, there is no problem at all because of snap to grid. Only when using the mouse to poke the token into the wall can they sometimes peek through. A little more care with the spacing would have sorted that.

Not sure if this is the best place for it? But just wanted to deposit a +1 for Update on Drop functionality with for updated dynamic lighting.

Has there been anything from Roll20 about deadlines they've set for getting the 'wall hacks' problem fixed?&nbsp; I am paying for the pro subscription really for that, so it's not worth the money if it can't be fixed in a timely manner&nbsp; :/

One thing I've noticed missing from here is the ability to set a character with low-light vision, i.e. an elf. Another character traveling with the elf is carrying a torch, the elf should be able to see twice as far. Easier to make this happen if the elf is carrying the torch (i.e. is the light source), but what if this partner moves away? The elf should still be able to see twice as much as what the torch light can normally cast.

Craig said: One thing I've noticed missing from here is the ability to set a character with low-light vision, i.e. an elf. Another character traveling with the elf is carrying a torch, the elf should be able to see twice as far. Easier to make this happen if the elf is carrying the torch (i.e. is the light source), but what if this partner moves away? The elf should still be able to see twice as much as what the torch light can normally cast. That will be available before Legacy goes away, per the design directive of parity before phaseout. Also note that this is only true of certain RPGs.

CB said: Has there been anything from Roll20 about deadlines they've set for getting the 'wall hacks' problem fixed?&nbsp; I am paying for the pro subscription really for that, so it's not worth the money if it can't be fixed in a timely manner&nbsp; :/ There is currently testing of a solution on the Dev server. In the meantime, Legacy is still available and fully mature.

CB said: Has there been anything from Roll20 about deadlines they've set for getting the 'wall hacks' problem fixed?&nbsp; I am paying for the pro subscription really for that, so it's not worth the money if it can't be fixed in a timely manner&nbsp; :/ We have a solution that's currently in testing on the Dev Server (as announced in the Pro Forum) . It was put there because it caused some changes to the Restrict Movement feature. If you've got a Pro subscription, then you can test that on the Dev Server .

What you were trying to do: Load map with Dynamic Lighting Enabled What happened: &nbsp;(Screen shots are useful here!) Stuck on load sequence for 20+ minutes with no load Steps to Reproduce: Browser &amp; OS info: Windows 10&nbsp; Chrome Is WebGL supported by your browser? Please visit&nbsp; <a href="https://webglreport.com/" rel="nofollow">https://webglreport.com/</a> &nbsp;and copy/paste the WebGL1 report from there. Platform: Win32 Browser User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/83.0.4103.106 Safari/537.36 Context Name: webgl GL Version: WebGL 1.0 (OpenGL ES 2.0 Chromium) Shading Language Version: WebGL GLSL ES 1.0 (OpenGL ES GLSL ES 1.0 Chromium) Vendor: WebKit Renderer: WebKit WebGL Unmasked Vendor: Google Inc. Unmasked Renderer: ANGLE (Intel(R) HD Graphics 620 Direct3D11 vs_5_0 ps_5_0) Antialiasing: Available ANGLE: Yes, D3D11 Major Performance Caveat: No Game Link: &nbsp;(The URL when you're looking at your Game Details page) <a href="https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/6169535/veshra-wolhani" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/6169535/veshra-wolhani</a> Game Settings Was anything changed from default? Map Settings Are you using Legacy or Updated? Updated Were you using Explorer Mode or not? No Were you using Daylight Mode or not? No Token Settings What kinds of light and vision were utilized on tokens? bright light, low light, night vision, regular vision All the Above

Kenton said: CB said: Has there been anything from Roll20 about deadlines they've set for getting the 'wall hacks' problem fixed?&nbsp; I am paying for the pro subscription really for that, so it's not worth the money if it can't be fixed in a timely manner&nbsp; :/ We have a solution that's currently in testing on the Dev Server (as announced in the Pro Forum) . It was put there because it caused some changes to the Restrict Movement feature. If you've got a Pro subscription, then you can test that on the Dev Server . Please dont mess with more features that actually works. You are making it very hard to make any sort of workaround on the light system, while you mess about. I love Roll20 and all its features. Come on, you can fix this! :)&nbsp;

Xeno said: Kenton said: CB said: Has there been anything from Roll20 about deadlines they've set for getting the 'wall hacks' problem fixed?&nbsp; I am paying for the pro subscription really for that, so it's not worth the money if it can't be fixed in a timely manner&nbsp; :/ We have a solution that's currently in testing on the Dev Server (as announced in the Pro Forum) . It was put there because it caused some changes to the Restrict Movement feature. If you've got a Pro subscription, then you can test that on the Dev Server . Please dont mess with more features that actually works. You are making it very hard to make any sort of workaround on the light system, while you mess about. I love Roll20 and all its features. Come on, you can fix this! :)&nbsp; Agreed. A change to how the collision detection is going to cause those of use with published adventures to have to go through every product to see if we have to change dynamic lighting walls. Small entrances and walls that do not line up with the grid are going to be especially problematic. Please maintain feature parity with the legacy version. Already with the new version, light sources cast light further than the legacy version. That changes how maps look, and sometimes the amount of light cast is important. We were told that legacy dynamic lighting would be phased out when updated dynamic lighting could do everything of the legacy version (plus bringing back AFoW from light sources the player did not control from the original version of dynamic lighting). Please actually keep the features working the same way. Please don't try to make things "better" before delivering what the old system could do. The light and collision detection should be calculated from the center of the token. The dynamic lighting point where it blocks vision should be down the middle of the line, regardless of the line thickness.

I've been preparing my new campaign that's to start soon, and I've come across a bug that could potentially ruin the atmosphere vibe; I've been setting up fires scattered across town, and I see that it clips strangely with darkvision. Sad days.

Once again, don't use the so called updated light for anything you care about. If you are preparing a new campaign switch to legacy before you start.

The fact that when a token with night vision can spot an illuminated area it creates some sort of gradient when they intersect is just a deal breaker for me. It´s terrible, it looks cheap. I hope it gets fixed soon because I might just cancel my subscription. This is what I mean. Doggo said: I've been preparing my new campaign that's to start soon, and I've come across a bug that could potentially ruin the atmosphere vibe; I've been setting up fires scattered across town, and I see that it clips strangely with darkvision. Sad days.

ALVAR M. said: The fact that when a token with night vision can spot an illuminated area it creates some sort of gradient when they intersect is just a deal breaker for me. It´s terrible, it looks cheap. I hope it gets fixed soon because I might just cancel my subscription. This is what I mean. So use the legacy dynamic lighting that doesn't do that.&nbsp; At least until they get this figured out on the new lighting system.